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dfoo
Post Roaster
Joined: Jan 19, 2005
Posts: 4140
Status: Offline
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 Posted:
May 08, 2008 - 07:14 PM |
 
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| CoffeeHawk_0 wrote: |
| You are all right about the MNC's, they can't be bothered to do it right, for the right price. I tried to help them save some money and they turned me down. The leases are often signed and negotiated by the company, not the expat, so even if I could have saved 5k or 10k rmb, it would have made 3 people in the office lose face, so you know it won't change. |
The problem is too many people made deals to rent the apartment for, say, 15000 a month, and then took a nice kickback from the landlord.
Anyway, if your company is payed, whatever floats your boat. If you are paying, then go do some looking. As someone earlier said near any real estate development is always a set of realtors renting. Look at the notices posted on the board and you can get a sense what the landlords want (at least in their dreams). |
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8lrr8
StreetBeater
Joined: Oct 14, 2004
Posts: 2344
Location: here!
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May 08, 2008 - 07:29 PM |
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| dfoo wrote: |
| Either you are looking at the extreme high end, or someone is trying to rip you off. Go look elsewhere. There are affordable apartments; ours is 4500 and we live 10 minutes walk from jing an temple. |
dfoo, plz check your PM. thx. |
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amig
Barker
Joined: Apr 26, 2007
Posts: 125
Location: suburbia
Status: Offline
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May 09, 2008 - 09:38 AM |
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I think there are more expats coming to Shanghai without the full expat package now. More expats are paying for their own housing or are given limited allowances for housing and kids' edu. So, to assume MNCs will pay for their expats employees can be stereotyping. I know for sure some big American IT companies are cutting back on these packages, by reducing the numbers of full expat employed to work here.
The rental market is quite stable and rental prices is similar now to rental prices 2 years back. High prices usually would mean, location of house/apt is good (convinient, high population of expats etc), facilities and New interior/estate. And many "brand names" estates like SRC, Forest Manor, Sh Centre, Lakeside...well, they are branded goods - you pay for exclusivity, right? So dont be fool if the high price you are paying donot entail these conditions. |
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Michael
Moderator
Joined: Mar 22, 2002
Posts: 5291
Status: Offline
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May 09, 2008 - 09:56 AM |
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The other side of it is that property prices, sooner or later, will take its toll on rental prices. For awhile, there has been a big disparity. But as units get sold and repurchased for investment. All of the sudden the new owner has a 20K or more a month mortgage.. they try to rent to cover the cost and they cannot do this with locals - so they go after the corp market. Any local rich enough to pay 25K a month in rent is rich enough to own a few units of their own. However, I think that there has to be x percentage of affordable units for the local population.. the income average here is still only a few thousand a month at best. |
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chingiskhan
StreetBeater
Joined: Apr 24, 2007
Posts: 2244
Location: Shanghai
Status: Offline
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May 09, 2008 - 10:14 AM |
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Yu888 the voice of reason once again.
I pay 6500 for a 3 bedroomed two bathroomed brand new apartment on t¡bet road, so I don't know where 25,000 rmb comes from. But of course there are inflated asking prices for expats who have an allowance to blow or can't be bothered to spend too much time looking around. Nothing wrong with that if that's their choice, same as anything else. I've certainly paid more for something because I can't be bothered to take another taxi to go where I know it's cheaper.
OP you are just looking at one segment - the HIGH END one. Either change agents or ask some other expats. I know someone paying 2500 RMB near xintiandi, ok so it's a tiny studio in a local building but that's the point there is a full range of prices available. |
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flysurfing
Barker
Joined: Sep 11, 2006
Posts: 190
Status: Offline
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May 09, 2008 - 11:35 AM |
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After three months of search with local agent and 30 apartment visited i finally found one ...
7500 RMB for two bedroom with bathroom and one big living room.
Located in people square...
It takes time to find something not too expensive... |
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Abramis
Lurker
Joined: Mar 18, 2008
Posts: 28
Status: Offline
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May 10, 2008 - 05:58 PM |
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Some years ago, on my first China tour, my company ended up overpaying for the flats. E.g. in Shanghai my first 2 places (in ChangNing, nearby Huashan Lu) cost me around 1500 and 2000 US (both approx. 120sqm, 2 bedrooms). These amounts very practically my that time allowance. My company's Shanghainese HR / office manager's agency of choice was naturally Full Home...
Today I live in high quality high rise 2 bedroom in ChangNing (nearby Huashan Lu) and pay around 7000rmb (very recently rented). This is bit more than we were planning to pay, but this particular flat was ideal in many ways. Pretty ok 3 beds were available at 7500rmb/month.
Prices came down surprisingly easily. Prospective flats were all found through small agencies (need speak Chinese). And we went to same flats even through different agencies. Finally did not pay anything like 35% for finding the flat either, as suddenly the owner was in direct contact with his prospective tenant... |
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canuckian
Ranter
Joined: Aug 12, 2007
Posts: 499
Status: Offline
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May 10, 2008 - 06:16 PM |
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I guess it depends on the size of the apartment you're renting.... and the location. A combination of both large apt and strategic location (i.e. the Richgate across from Xin Tian Di with an area of 300msq) will cost you around $7,000/mo easily. |
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DesertSpider
Post Roaster
Joined: Jan 19, 2007
Posts: 4417
Location: SHANGHAI, CHINA
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May 10, 2008 - 06:42 PM |
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Robbery any way you cut it for the materials that are used here, the shite service (what service?) and the fact that the market is artificially and purposefully inflated by outrageous amounts due to foreigners. 99.9999999% of locals are not the ones making the prices go up.... it's stupid foreigners that are lazy and don't know any better and really don't care b/c it's not their money. |
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bezoli
Raver
Joined: Aug 30, 2006
Posts: 402
Status: Offline
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May 13, 2008 - 10:09 AM |
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8lrr8
StreetBeater
Joined: Oct 14, 2004
Posts: 2344
Location: here!
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May 13, 2008 - 10:28 AM |
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took a look at 15+ units, all w/i a 10-min walk from jing'an temple. finally found one that had good interior build quality, good size, at a good price.
apt hunting is a marathon, not a sprint. be prepared to look thru at least 20+ apts before u have a chance at finding one u like. |
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sbergman
Veejay
Joined: Sep 12, 2007
Posts: 2165
Status: Offline
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May 13, 2008 - 10:42 AM |
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We found our place on the net direct from the owner and sent a Shanghainese friend over to check it out. It's been great (and will be back on the market soon - if anyone is looking). Shanghainese friend (whose husband is American and works for MNC) kept trying to talk us into upping the rent and getting a kickback in transportation cards. We had a hard time explaining to her that since we are paying our own rent this would make no sense. Seems to be a very common practice.
Be careful not to rent a place that is less than one year old. My understanding is that owner gets a tax break for the first year and so many properties will change hands just before the first anniversary. I've had three friends hastily kicked out of their apartments as that date approached. |
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blondesands
Reacher
Joined: Nov 21, 2007
Posts: 207
Status: Offline
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May 14, 2008 - 10:06 PM |
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| andyfff wrote: |
| I have said this before, but it is worth repeating: If you are going to look at an apartment, bring a Chinese person with you, preferably an older woman. She will look the landlord in the eye and say (in Chinese) "Cut the crap." I have had two apartments here, both times I brought a negotiator with me, and both times she got the rent reduced significantly, like more than 25%. |
I agree, Andy, even if you are a foreigner and fluent in Chinese, the owner/agent just see dollar signs light up when they see you, and the price can get ridiculously high. There are also many companies over here that will pay exuberant rent for expats, and this does affect the average foreigner hunting for a place, who is paying their own rent from hard earned money. Also depends on the area and what you are looking for, in terms of luxuries. |
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Ah Beng
Reacher
Joined: May 14, 2008
Posts: 373
Location: Shanghai Paradise
Status: Offline
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May 15, 2008 - 12:39 PM |
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A nice executive 3br apartment in Changning (next to line 2 MRT) is asking for 15000 rmb. It's available now, if you're keen. |
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kumlong
LoopKicker
Joined: Oct 18, 2007
Posts: 817
Status: Offline
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May 15, 2008 - 01:50 PM |
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why dont u try to get the housing allowance paid to you in CASH? that way u will be more motivated to look around for cheap apartments.
too many guai los are too lazy or have a different mindset. for eg they enjoy renting a 3 bedroom apartment when its only themselve living in it. and they complain that rental is high.
if u read chinese, u can try this web site http://www.loushi.cn./ or this one http://sh.ganji.com/fang1/0701.htm. there are heaps of cheap housing there. |
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yu888
Board Deity
Joined: Jan 25, 2003
Posts: 18042
Location: ZhongShanParkArea SH
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May 15, 2008 - 02:42 PM |
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but remember that CASH allowances are taxable.
Direct payment or rent by company is not.
And what's wrong with living alone in a 3 bedroom place. I lived alone in a penthouse the first year then bought a 3 bedroom place and lived there alone for 3 years. Your point? |
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Thoughts & updates about Shanghai On my Blog for more details:Random Thoughts about Living in Shanghai...and more |
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kumlong
LoopKicker
Joined: Oct 18, 2007
Posts: 817
Status: Offline
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May 15, 2008 - 02:48 PM |
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u can work out a tax cap with your company. that way u get to pocket the balance of your housing allowance legally. to pump up the rent and pocket the extra bit is illegal and in some places considered a jailable corruption offence.
if u want to live in an excessive big place then by all means. but dont complain that you pay too much for rent |
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p1atl10
Board Royalty
Joined: Mar 18, 2005
Posts: 6293
Location: Shanghai
Status: Offline
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May 15, 2008 - 02:50 PM |
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^^ guai los????
Very disrespectful young man..... |
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kumlong
LoopKicker
Joined: Oct 18, 2007
Posts: 817
Status: Offline
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May 15, 2008 - 02:51 PM |
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would it be better if i call u lao wai? |
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yu888
Board Deity
Joined: Jan 25, 2003
Posts: 18042
Location: ZhongShanParkArea SH
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May 15, 2008 - 02:53 PM |
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why is it excessive? depends on what on is used to. many expats are downsizing from 250-300sm homes wioth yards to these 200sm boxes with no yards.
Also, maybe the rent IS too much for what they are getting. when one can pay 5-7k a month for a decent 3 bedroom and yet in the same there are ones renting for 15k... ? not getting too much more for double eh? |
_________________
Thoughts & updates about Shanghai On my Blog for more details:Random Thoughts about Living in Shanghai...and more |
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kumlong
LoopKicker
Joined: Oct 18, 2007
Posts: 817
Status: Offline
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May 15, 2008 - 02:55 PM |
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my point is if u only need 100 sq m dont rent a 300 sq m place. its that simple. maybe its the scot in me but i dont think one should spend more than what is necessary. if u think that what u are paying at the moment is way too high, then look at the lifestyle u have and learn to cut back. |
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edbreejen
Raver
Joined: Apr 24, 2003
Posts: 432
Location: Shanghai, Zhongshan park area
Status: Offline
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May 15, 2008 - 03:00 PM |
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Back to the OP: only a small minority of all apartments here are priced >RMB25K a month, but they are the vast majority of apartments listed in crappy newspapers like Shanghai Daily or the crappy free magazines in bars catering foreigners (forgot the names, stopped looking in them long long ago). So browse this site (lots of previous threads), maybe check www.loushi.cn, get some real advice from local friends and learn to bargain. If i want to move next month to a 150SQM apartment for under RMB8K/month, i guess i have at least 50 options within 24 hours at good locations. And you could do better than that! |
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tigerduck
Reacher
Joined: May 05, 2008
Posts: 274
Location: somewhere
Status: Offline
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| Posted:
May 16, 2008 - 02:35 AM |
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[quote="Ah Beng"]A nice executive 3br apartment in Changning (next to line 2 MRT) is asking for 15000 rmb. It's available now, if you're keen.[/quote]
Too bad, we'll only have an allowance of 7500 RMB  |
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dfoo
Post Roaster
Joined: Jan 19, 2005
Posts: 4140
Status: Offline
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| Posted:
May 17, 2008 - 05:21 PM |
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changning, 15k. What's wrong with that picture?! I wouldn't live in changning if you paid me 15k a month!! |
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PhatAV8r
Raver
Joined: May 31, 2003
Posts: 384
Location: Qingpu District, SHANGHAI
Status: Offline
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May 19, 2008 - 02:19 PM |
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Chinesegirl_wang, you are wrong, if every expat left tomorrow morning, the Shanghai real estate economy would fall flat on its face. There simply are not 100,000 Chinese households that would pay between 8,000 and 120,000 RMB PER MONTH to rent a service apartment or villa.
The simple loss of that much revenue, and the fact that the majority of landlords are covering second and third properties that are not rented would result in a huge number of delinquencies.
One example however of the strange mentality towards rented housing is Longbai Apartments at the end of Hongqiao Rd just outside the Hongqiao airport.
10 years ago, my friends rented the penthouse apartment for $10,000 USD per month. That gave them five bedrooms and three bathrooms, but was still not anything SPECIAL to speak about. Their apartment was in the building that now faces the A20 outer ring road.
Since the A20 began full operation past the YanAn viaduct to the north (Tianshan Rd direction), the number of empty apartments in that building on that face is now 80% unoccupied.
Even with all those apartments empty, the management will not lower their prices to fill the space. |
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