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foodcoma
Reacher
Joined: Apr 29, 2006
Posts: 293
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 Posted:
May 17, 2008 - 06:07 PM |
 
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| Post subject: Golf club |
Just wanted to check if anyone here are members of golf clubs in or around the shanghai area? If so, is there one that you would recommend? |
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foodcoma
Reacher
Joined: Apr 29, 2006
Posts: 293
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May 18, 2008 - 03:09 PM |
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No golfers here?  |
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p1atl10
Board Lord
Joined: Mar 18, 2005
Posts: 5174
Location: Shanghai
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May 18, 2008 - 04:35 PM |
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Member?
As in USD$25,000 to $100,000 for a membership? |
_________________
Not all chemicals are bad. Without chemicals such as hydrogen and oxygen, for example, there would be no way to make water, a vital ingredient in beer.....Dave Barry |
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foodcoma
Reacher
Joined: Apr 29, 2006
Posts: 293
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May 18, 2008 - 11:17 PM |
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Yes, I was referring to a golf memberships. Sorry if I was unclear. Any recommendations? |
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p1atl10
Board Lord
Joined: Mar 18, 2005
Posts: 5174
Location: Shanghai
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May 19, 2008 - 07:23 AM |
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Are you looking for the USD$25,000 range or the $125,000 range?
Upper end...Shezhan, TianMa
Lower end...you will be driving for 1 1/2 - 2 hours to get there |
_________________
Not all chemicals are bad. Without chemicals such as hydrogen and oxygen, for example, there would be no way to make water, a vital ingredient in beer.....Dave Barry |
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PhatAV8r
Raver
Joined: May 31, 2003
Posts: 384
Location: Qingpu District, SHANGHAI
Status: Offline
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May 19, 2008 - 11:30 AM |
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use your head. If you can afford a $25,000 golf membership, you should be able to figure out that this equates to approximately 166 rounds of golf at $150 per round.
The normal club membership requires also that you pay about $2000 per year in annual fees, and you still don't play FREE. You must still pay facilities and caddie fees every time you play.
Compare playing then at ONE course all the time to just playing 166 times at any of 30-40 courses of your choice and it makes sense to not buy a membership.
The local Chinese purchase these memberships for show. They want to flaunt their financial success and I have personally seen a guy with his 'golf' wallet that had memberships at Tianma, Shenshan, Marcello, Lake Mallaren, and YinTao.
If you are one of those, knock yourself out, but I don't care how much money someone has. All I care about is if they play with etiquette and respect for the game tee to green.
I can tell you that there is a good number of Chinese players out there that think that having a membership allows them to do whatever they want on the course.
We had some fools a couple weeks back following us. We were on 18 and had all teed off on a par 5, and were sitting in the fairway standing by our balls waiting to hit, with caddies and carts in full sight and these guys hit into us. Not one, but all three of them, over the arguing of their caddies because they were in a hurry to finish.
COMMON. Select who you want to sleep with wisely. |
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p1atl10
Board Lord
Joined: Mar 18, 2005
Posts: 5174
Location: Shanghai
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May 19, 2008 - 02:04 PM |
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If you are one of those, knock yourself out, but I don't care how much money someone has. All I care about is if they play with etiquette and respect for the game tee to green.
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There are times when this becomes a real downer....
They buy the memberships as investments. When SheZhan opened. memberships were $25,000...now they go for $110,000. That's USD btw.
So these guys with too much money and no respect for the game go out to play, having never really played before....
You pay $150...and end up behind them.
Horrible ettiqutte. On the phones, taking 10 practice swings, etc.
We were behind one guy a couple of weeks ago at SheZhan...he is 200 yards out. Hits the ball 40 meters. Handphone rings, sends the caddy back to the cart (cart path only) while he yaks. 10 more practice swings....hits the ball another 40 meters....sends the caddy back for a different club.....
(Seems whatever he hit was only good for 40....just swing the same one 5 times and you would be there!!)
Makes for a very frustrating round sometimes...Especially in the middle of summer when it is hotter than the hinges of you know where out there... |
_________________
Not all chemicals are bad. Without chemicals such as hydrogen and oxygen, for example, there would be no way to make water, a vital ingredient in beer.....Dave Barry |
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foodcoma
Reacher
Joined: Apr 29, 2006
Posts: 293
Status: Offline
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May 20, 2008 - 01:11 AM |
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p1atl10, where else have you played besides sheshan? I only know of sheshan, Tianma, and Tomson. Am curious about the the types of members in these clubs. Like you mentioned in your post, it would be unbearable to be stuck behind someone yakking on a cell phone while pretending to play golf.
Not too keen on joining a club that is 1.5 hours away. |
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p1atl10
Board Lord
Joined: Mar 18, 2005
Posts: 5174
Location: Shanghai
Status: Offline
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May 20, 2008 - 06:27 AM |
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Have played Binhai, Tompson, Sun Island, Tianma,....play these primarily as mangement in my company has memberships there.
Have played about three or four other ones....But cannot for the life of me remember the names. My chines colleagues call them one thing...in English they are another.
Think I have the scorecardss in the office. Will check and get back to you
Linky to other courses...
http://www.bigbamboo.cn/golfdirectory/index.php |
_________________
Not all chemicals are bad. Without chemicals such as hydrogen and oxygen, for example, there would be no way to make water, a vital ingredient in beer.....Dave Barry |
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antsmarching
Barker
Joined: Mar 03, 2008
Posts: 136
Status: Offline
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May 20, 2008 - 02:00 PM |
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You can try Qing Tao golf in Qing Pu. From Jing An district, without traffic, it takes about 30 minutes to get there.
Shanghai Yintao Golf Club
No. 2222 Huqingping Highway, Xujing Town
Qingpu District, Shanghai, 201702
tel: 6976-2222
I don't have a membership there but I think it is around 120,000rmb. |
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foodcoma
Reacher
Joined: Apr 29, 2006
Posts: 293
Status: Offline
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May 20, 2008 - 08:59 PM |
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michswiss
Newbie
Joined: Nov 17, 2007
Posts: 4
Status: Offline
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May 21, 2008 - 07:50 PM |
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I just 'joined' BinHai after playing there last weekend. Basically, only because there's a 3 round break even if you're playing as a visitor instead of guest or member. It's a huge hike out there, well over an hour. But, getting away from the city when I'm here on business for extended periods is nice.
If I move here, I'll be looking for a better golfing arrangement. If only one of my clubs in AU had reciprocals somewhere here. |
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foodcoma
Reacher
Joined: Apr 29, 2006
Posts: 293
Status: Offline
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May 25, 2008 - 12:28 PM |
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For anyone who has played at Shanghai Yintao golf club, what are your thoughts? That course seems to be closer to Shanghai compared to Tianma and Sheshan. |
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antsmarching
Barker
Joined: Mar 03, 2008
Posts: 136
Status: Offline
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May 26, 2008 - 07:52 PM |
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nice decent course. Lots of Korean golfers. Expect them to be slow. During the summer, they are really busy in the morning. Most courses in Shanghai at that price is fairly nice. I am not too critial b/c I am just happy to be golfing. No rain checks. if you tee off and it starts to rain, you either have to forfeit the round or wait until the rain is over. |
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foodcoma
Reacher
Joined: Apr 29, 2006
Posts: 293
Status: Offline
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May 26, 2008 - 08:00 PM |
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You're certainly right about Yintao having a lot of Korean golfers. I went there to take a look yesterday and more than half of the golfers there appeared to have been Koreans! |
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PhatAV8r
Raver
Joined: May 31, 2003
Posts: 384
Location: Qingpu District, SHANGHAI
Status: Offline
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May 28, 2008 - 03:56 PM |
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and Korean golfers in Shanghai are THE WORST. They can't play without gambling, and act like there is millions riding on every put (might be)
There are golf courses you have no idea about all over Shanghai. A lit course in Jiading, there must be 10 courses in Western Shanghai.
Hongqiao golf is only 9 holes, but they use different tees between nines to make the look different for 18. Not a bad course at all.
Qizhong is an older course in Minhang, near the tennis stadium, not well kept, the greenskeeper somehow learned that they only way to manage your grass is to SAND it. The fairways are grass covered sandboxes. Green fees too high for the condition of the course and facilities. Nice layout, lots of water, but they need a real course upgrade. Of course the originally planned 27 holes was cut down to 18 by a development deal after the fact. The local gov't guys made out like bandits. (typical)
Yintao is okay, nearer town than most, but also not easy to get on.
Tianma, nice, 27 holes, with 9 common to both the old and new course. Usually no waiting, some of the better members around in general.
Sheshan, I have walked for the HSBC tourney, haven't played it, but I hear it is like Tianma, membership tends to be a little more of the nouveau riche Chinese, some are just plain idiots. Others love to play with expats (especially if you speak Chinese).
Orient - a little known course. Straight out A8 to Dagang exit, follow the exit road, and go straight ahead in the gate. Course is a little weak, David Chen has done some good things by adding trees, taking away sissy landing zones. They have a very nice new clubhouse, and the hole rotation is now changed. But plenty of water, LONG par 5 that usually plays into the wind. Good caddies. Food service is lacking at clubhouse.
Marcello - in Xinnong on Songjiang/Jinshan boundary, just off of A30. REALLY nice course. 27 holes, wonderful elevation changes, water hazards, blind drives, approaches. Simply a must play course, but another where they don't understand MANAGEMENT. Too bad. Nice driving range.
Sun Island SH - older course, nice, but they don't get customer service, don't provide any fluids during the summer. Caddies talk too much, especially in the back swing.
Binhai - long drive unless you live in Pudong, but a great layout on the lake course, not impressed with the other 18 so much.
Zhonggang - new course, a little messed up, the designer takes the club out of the golfers hand, forced layups on par 4s? what is that all about. Takes the fun out if it a little. Wouldn't hold up to a simple public course in the US. But provides something different.
There is a brand new course in the Shanghai Chemical City in Fengxian, you can TEST play until like June 15th. They will want to sell you a membership.
PalmBeach - on the coast in Fengxian, great course, a little iffy for management.
Just some notes, I have played probably another 5-6 courses in Shanghai area. |
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p1atl10
Board Lord
Joined: Mar 18, 2005
Posts: 5174
Location: Shanghai
Status: Offline
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| Posted:
May 28, 2008 - 09:06 PM |
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Nice summary.
Sheshan. Have played it 5-6 times over the last two years.
2 different courses.
In the spring....wide fairways, no rough. Probably one of the easiest course to play. Which is good, because it keeps the players moving. Enough challange to make it interesting though.
Mid-summer though the HSBC. A waste of money for a mid-level player. The fairways go down to about 10 meters wide, the rough becomes unplayable. Which is a fine set-up for the Pro's...nobody wants to see a 26 under winning score.
But it makes the course unplayable for us mids....and stretches the rounds out to over 5 hours......as the millionaire members apparently cannot afford to let a golf ball go unfound in the rough. And will spend all tiume neccesary to find it! |
_________________
Not all chemicals are bad. Without chemicals such as hydrogen and oxygen, for example, there would be no way to make water, a vital ingredient in beer.....Dave Barry |
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foodcoma
Reacher
Joined: Apr 29, 2006
Posts: 293
Status: Offline
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June 08, 2008 - 06:46 PM |
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Just out of curiosity, do you think that current golf membership fees in Shanghai are reasonable or high? Was thinking more about the nicer ones that aren't too far from town, e.g. sheshan and tianma.
I'm not referring to the actual cost of joining. As an example, there are $100 stocks that are cheap, but $5 stocks that are extremely expensive.
EDIT: I'm asking this question because I was comparing the golf clubs here to the ones in Hong Kong and Singapore. The ones in Shanghai aren't that much less expensive, but obviously also aren't quite as nice. Maybe I'm biased, but I may feel better about joining those clubs even if they cost a little more. That is, however, a moot point as I am now living in Shanghai. |
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p1atl10
Board Lord
Joined: Mar 18, 2005
Posts: 5174
Location: Shanghai
Status: Offline
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June 09, 2008 - 02:58 AM |
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As long as the stock market and real estate market do not go completely into the tank.....SheShan and Tianma will probably continue to escalate.
IMHO...Are they reasonable?
No.
Sheshan memberships were $25,000 when first opened. Now $125,000 (USD). I always wory about anything that bubbles that quickly up....feel it will come down as fast as soon as the artificial influences that created it are disturbed.
Your call, my prejudices....but I would be concerned about the bubble. |
_________________
Not all chemicals are bad. Without chemicals such as hydrogen and oxygen, for example, there would be no way to make water, a vital ingredient in beer.....Dave Barry |
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foodcoma
Reacher
Joined: Apr 29, 2006
Posts: 293
Status: Offline
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June 09, 2008 - 01:08 PM |
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When did sheshan first open? Their memberships now are actually quite a bit more than USD125k. I was told that it's about RMB 1.6m for single memberships and RMB 2.5m for family memberships - these are only available from the second-hand market as their memberships are full, unless you plan on moving there to stay.
You may perhaps have been referring to Tianma? Memberships there are now RMB 730k for singles, and RMB 980k for families.
I do agree with your view on the stock market and real estate. Real estate prices in certain areas of China (e.g. shenzhen and guangzhou) have begun to come down. However, high-end residentials all over China, including Shanghai, have either maintained or gone up a little this year. Stock market in China is certainly not doing well - about 40% down from its peak but it's probably still overvalued. However, wealthy people are generally less affected by the ups and downs in the stock market.
Are golf memberships in Shanghai worth their value? I have no idea but I wouldn't consider them cheap. Having now gone to Tianma, I feel that their memberships should be around RMB 500k for singles and RMB 700k for families but hey, who am I to say. In addition, it doesn't leave one with too many options than to join a golf membership if we want to golf on a decent course that is not too far from Shanghai city center. |
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p1atl10
Board Lord
Joined: Mar 18, 2005
Posts: 5174
Location: Shanghai
Status: Offline
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June 09, 2008 - 08:22 PM |
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^ Yup. That is the quandry.
The good courses are tough to get on without a member, and then IMHO wildly overpriced for a round. I am lucky...I run down to the place in Thailand 3-4 times a year and golf my hands off when there.
That being said....we should get a round up soon. |
_________________
Not all chemicals are bad. Without chemicals such as hydrogen and oxygen, for example, there would be no way to make water, a vital ingredient in beer.....Dave Barry |
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foodcoma
Reacher
Joined: Apr 29, 2006
Posts: 293
Status: Offline
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June 09, 2008 - 09:16 PM |
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Absolutely. Let me first get the cobwebs out of my clubs and hit the driving range a couple of times before getting together for a round  |
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Cha-ching
Newbie
Joined: June 10, 2008
Posts: 1
Status: Offline
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June 10, 2008 - 09:13 PM |
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Joining the thread... If you're on the Pudong side, a decent course is Shanghai Links, a course designed by Nicklaus, nearby the Pudong airport. Classic Nicklaus style. The fairways are not your typical Chinese grass; more like a North American standard course. Not sure what the typical membership fee is but I heard they may have a 1 year membership arrangement. It recently was bought by some investors and is under new management.
Another good one is Tomson but hard to get on without a member. It plays more like a Japanese course - some funky holes and not that long, but still enjoyable. Last time I asked, the membership fee was over US$125K (over 1 yr ago). And if you get a membership, it's still hard getting a tee time on the weekend. Good thing is pace is decent even on the weekend - you can get a round in under 4.5 hours. |
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canuckyyz
Reacher
Joined: Feb 13, 2007
Posts: 210
Location: Canadian living in Shanghai Lujiazui
Status: Offline
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| Posted:
June 15, 2008 - 06:39 PM |
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| Zhonggang - new course, a little messed up, the designer takes the club out of the golfers hand, forced layups on par 4s? what is that all about. Takes the fun out if it a little. Wouldn't hold up to a simple public course in the US. But provides something different. |
PhatAV8r - you are being too kind to Zhonggang. It is more than a "little" messed up. 16 of the holes are a collection of water hazards with a few landing zones between them. On #3 there is water on the left, water on the right, water in the middle, followed by a bunker that covers the entire width of the fairway for the last 100 yds. |
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Gimme my "TIMMIES" and no one gets hurt! |
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mastersplinter
Newbie
Joined: May 15, 2008
Posts: 7
Location: Nanjing
Status: Offline
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June 24, 2008 - 10:30 PM |
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I am interested in golf in the Shanghai area and I am curious about fees. Basically, I see all of this talk of memberships and I want to know if there is a place where I can call as a non-member and book a tee time and then arrive at the course and pay for that tee time and then proceed to the starter at the first tee and hit my first golf shot without a caddy and without a cart (ok I will play with a cart but don't prefer to). Or will I be REQUIRED to find a member that will invite me as a non-member to play? I see that some of you say it is hard to get on the course without a member but is that because they will NOT allow me on the course without one or is it because it is easier to get a tee time with one? I basically just want to find a place like my local muni where I can book a time and pay a fee and then pay. Is it really asking that much? I feel after reading some of the other threads and this post that it really is.
And if such "public" courses do exist what are the rates for those courses? are we talking $100USD per 18 or what? Thanks! |
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