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genghis
Raver
Joined: Apr 02, 2008
Posts: 455
Status: Offline
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Sep 20, 2008 - 12:56 AM |
 
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| you wouldn't pay 120rmb for a good meal? you're joking right? |
If I was in the US or the UK, or Australia or anywhere else, no I would be fine with paying $17 to $20 USD for a meal.
But, the fact of the matter is that I'm in CHINA.
With the exception of imported beef (which, by the way, aged beef can now be purchased from a company in Beijing) or very difficult "must be imported ingredients", most of the food in expat places is made with local stuff and is priced way higher because "all expats are rich".
Sorry, but this is dumb. I won't pay $20usd for a hamburger in the US, and I sure as hell won't pay that much for a poor imitation of one in China.
For "120rmb" in the US where I'm from, I can have a Maine lobster and a few sides and a beer or two.
Paying that much for something slightly reminiscent of home here is just a scam to suck laowais of money.
Sorry. Imagine if all the Chinese restaurants charged people exotic prices from where you're from. Would you pay $30 for Lo Mein? I think not. |
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Humac
Reacher
Joined: July 07, 2007
Posts: 250
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Sep 20, 2008 - 01:05 AM |
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^ Yep, I'm in China too and I think it's wonderful that I can get a taste of home from time to time, albeit at a premium price. |
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monkey7020
Barker
Joined: June 10, 2006
Posts: 157
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Sep 20, 2008 - 02:24 AM |
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Genghis... your talking utter c**p.
While I agree there are restaurants like you describe, they don't last very long. The good ones are all serving imported and hard to get products. I can guarantee you that the fish in the 120rmb fish and chips haven't come from Shanghai!!!!
The difference between local meats and imported meats is night and day. You mentioned the beef. Yes, there is some great local meat, but the main problem is that the whole supply chain just isn't there. There is a stockyard near Dalian for example, which produces fantastic beef using the same standards for Austrailian Wagyu beef. Unfortunately, the slaughter yard is 3 hours drive away, instead of on site. What this means is the cow gets stressed, and the meat gets tough again.
This goes on and on... chicken, pork, even the veg. The local stuff might be cheap, but there are not many expat places serving local food... If you want import stuff, cooked by western chefs, and served by western staff, then, tough, its going to cost you MORE than back home.
Personally, I agree with Humac... just cause your in china doesn't mean it should be cheap. If you want something good, then its going to cost you more here. Sorry. |
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howarda
Talker
Joined: Sep 21, 2005
Posts: 93
Location: Shanghai
Status: Offline
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Sep 20, 2008 - 01:28 PM |
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I'm not going to pay extra just to have a nice chat.....
I'm sure the food is top notch, my point is just that expat places in Shanghai are way over priced, and I'm not just talking about buiying imported beers, the local beer is also expensive and yes as lots of ppl pointed out it is only 3 RMB a can in Lawsons. They mark it up to like 30 in a lot of bars, this is just silly.
PPl may say u pay for atmosphere,service and so on, but my feeling is when u factor in all those things you are still looking at a price which is inflated because ppl can afford to pay it and a lot dont know any better. The Chinese really must have a laugh at us paying these prices, and to be honest if it was happening in my country I would have a giggle to myself too.
Just my two cents. |
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swisscook
Reacher
Joined: Aug 27, 2007
Posts: 325
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Sep 20, 2008 - 07:30 PM |
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After all the hype in this thread and others I went there today for the Fish and Chips and tried them. 2 pcs of big fish in a nice crispy beer batter that was not doughy. French Fries where nice although there where only 10 of them. Bit of salad, decent tartar sauce and mushed Peas with way too much Pepper in it. I think it was the best fish and chips I had in Shanghai. Would I pay 125 CNY again for them. No. Not nearly enough Chips on the plate to fill me up and I don't care too much about a pretty presentation when it comes to Fish & chips to pay that much. Working as a Chef myself in Shanghai I am the first one to defend prices that are at times a bit high for the average Joe as I can see the labour, effort and cost that goes into a dish. But for such a small portion and such cheap ingredients I can't say I'd order it again. Rest of the Menu looked reasnable though. Burger for 70, Shepards Pie also. Sounds ok if the quality is good. Did not try it. Beer prices - well, where I am from a Guiness is usually 8 Swiss Francs or more and we are a tad closer to Dublin. I don't like the prices but I can live with them. Atmosphere is nice, Sports Channels work so I am willing to pay a bit more. Reality is Shanghai is so oversaturated in the Restaurant Market that it will regulate itself. People are not as blind as they where a few years back when it came to paying the bill in a Restaurant. Having that said, please don't generalise though - just because it cost more than it does in your home country does not mean that it is overpriced here. Some goods here are a bit pricyier than at home and so is the equipment. Which is no excuse to overcharge. Just my 2 cents |
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canuckyyz
Reacher
Joined: Feb 13, 2007
Posts: 223
Location: Canadian living in Shanghai Lujiazui
Status: Offline
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Sep 21, 2008 - 10:02 AM |
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I was there last night too and had the fish & chips. Nice presentation and I got lots of fries but the fish seemed a bit undercooked as the batter was runny inside. Nice pub but they need to put up a few big posts or dividers to give it a cosier more intimate feeling.
Fish & chips is $15 CAD or about RMB100 + tax + tip at the Irish Embassy Pub in Toronto so the price here is not out of line. |
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HeatWolves
Lurker
Joined: Sep 15, 2008
Posts: 31
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Sep 21, 2008 - 01:51 PM |
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just wack. it's unfortunate that bars choose to/have to charge exorbitant prices. I work around the corner from there, and the only affordable/decent food spots in the area are the Lanzhou la mian spot and Happy Lemon. maybe in six years thumb plaza will get a Windows. |
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armie
Barker
Joined: Sep 22, 2005
Posts: 184
Location: Shanghai, PRC
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Sep 21, 2008 - 04:30 PM |
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Wow - 70rmb a pint. No matter how you twist this logic into a pretzel it's a total waste. No wonder the locals thing all laowai are idiots. Now I'm not saying these owners are bad people, or trying to rip us off. I'm sure they are hard working blokes, who can justify the expense that goes into the final product. But what brand of lunacy compels people to stubbornly insist on having "just like at home" no matter how ridiculous the cost? A Chinese family could eat for a week on the cost of one pint of guiness, and I can have a great night of debauchery out on the town for the same. |
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armie
Barker
Joined: Sep 22, 2005
Posts: 184
Location: Shanghai, PRC
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Sep 21, 2008 - 04:32 PM |
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I've been the Irish Emabassy pub in Toronto, and it doesn't cost anything near that for a pour. But having said that, pretty much most Irish pubs in Toronto are just as lame as the ones here. |
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p1atl10
Board Royalty
Joined: Mar 18, 2005
Posts: 6293
Location: Shanghai
Status: Offline
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Sep 21, 2008 - 10:46 PM |
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Wah-wah-wah....everything is too much here!
Pint in NYC...10 bucks also.
Pint in Miami...aren't any
Pint in Paris...double that.
Pint in Tokyo....double that again.
Anybody want to guess what the overhead is for running a decent bar here...rent included.
You guys seems to be confusing Shanghai with China...
If you do not like it....fine. Vote with your feet.
Me...a decent meal and a couple of pints for 40 bucks in Shanghai?
Comparable to other like metropolitan areas in the world. |
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travelinjack3
FooJay
Joined: Sep 19, 2005
Posts: 1718
Location: Right Bank
Status: Offline
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Sep 22, 2008 - 11:24 AM |
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| Humac wrote: |
| you wouldn't pay 120rmb for a good meal? you're joking right? |
120RMB for a good meal. Sure salmon fillet or tuna steak that is grilled or seared but not for a couple of pieces of random white fish that have been breaded and deep fried plus served with some fries. Gimme a break. |
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catur
Talker
Joined: Feb 16, 2005
Posts: 109
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Sep 22, 2008 - 11:25 AM |
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| SexyFatBuddha wrote: |
| ^ Shanghai is metropolitan how? |
In its rent and utility costs.
The rent at Tom Thumb is at least rmb14 per sq. meter per day (that was a quote I got a few years ago for a central location there). I don't know the size, but he's paying at least rmb70000 per month, probably much more. He needs to sell over 50 pints of "overpriced" Guinness every day just to pay rent, then he gets to start paying all his other costs + leave something to pay back for his effort, risk, investment...
Tom Thumb is slow after 10pm or so, as Carrefour and other restaurants close, and it's a family oriented area. You're in a Catch-22 there; a)price low and try to build business very quickly, losing money and go out of business b) price high and drive off business, losing money and go out of business. Good luck to any bar opening there. You need to be a great restaurant first, and a great bar second to have even a slim chance of surviving.
Plat:
Not to quibble, but a pint of Guinness is 900 yen (rmb60) at nice foreign oriented, high volume bars in Ikebukuro (a major area) in Tokyo.
Drink beer in Paris?? Yikes! |
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bleucheese
Veejay
Joined: Aug 01, 2003
Posts: 1993
Location: this side of the tracks
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Sep 22, 2008 - 11:39 AM |
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| Pint in NYC...10 bucks also. |
im curious to know where and what you are drinking at 10 buck a pint as i do love a solid beer and the possibility of a new good watering hole.
chimay, dogfish head, la chouffe... the best beers i know of are 6 or 7 buck at the beer joints i frequent- george keeley, rattle n hum, belgian beer hall- and frequently half that price on a special. pints of guiness are 5 or 6.
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Me...a decent meal and a couple of pints for 40 bucks in Shanghai?
Comparable to other like metropolitan areas in the world. |
from my experience the western food and drink here is universally more expensive while the quality is nowhere near comparable.
its been a year or two but the best fish and chips ive had in nyc is 'a salt & battery' in the village. arguably one of the best in the city- they only do fish and chips.
you get a choice of 5 or 6 exceptionally fresh fish. if you go for the cod- large order- (which easily feeds 2 people), with chips, mushy peas, plus 2 beers, you are out about 25 buck- my upper limit for a plate of fried food with two solid beers.
and the fish and chips at a salt & battery are outstanding.
a basket of fried food and 2 beers for 40 buck sounds ridiculous to me. |
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Buzzd
PopStar
Joined: Jan 30, 2008
Posts: 1092
Status: Offline
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Sep 23, 2008 - 11:11 AM |
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| canuckyyz wrote: |
I was there last night too and had the fish & chips. Nice presentation and I got lots of fries but the fish seemed a bit undercooked as the batter was runny inside. Nice pub but they need to put up a few big posts or dividers to give it a cosier more intimate feeling.
Fish & chips is $15 CAD or about RMB100 + tax + tip at the Irish Embassy Pub in Toronto so the price here is not out of line. |
A rip-off is a rip-off is a rip-off! I don't need to travel to bumblef#ck Pudong if I want to get raped, as Tongren Lu is much closer to home.
I can understand paying a bit more for western food here in Shanghai, but I refuse to pay high end western prices for a simple meal and a couple of beers here. 265 (40 USD!) for a couple of beers and some fish? Give me a freakin' break. Tourist traps smack dab in the middle of Times Square charge less for the same.
The naysayers can defend places like these all they want, but I ain't buying. |
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Swiss-James
Fire-eater
Joined: Jan 05, 2007
Posts: 2502
Status: Offline
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Sep 23, 2008 - 11:51 AM |
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I think it's 80RMB for fish and chips in the Beaver. Not tried them, just saying. |
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Buzzd
PopStar
Joined: Jan 30, 2008
Posts: 1092
Status: Offline
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Sep 23, 2008 - 01:19 PM |
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^ Exactly. While the pickings may be slim in "Gouge the Expatland", there are places that somehow manage to provide a decent Western style product at rational prices. The 30 RMB I pay for a quality pizza at La Casbah or a damn good meal at the newly opened Munchies, authoritatively dispel the notion that it's not possible to do so in Shanghai. |
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p1atl10
Board Royalty
Joined: Mar 18, 2005
Posts: 6293
Location: Shanghai
Status: Offline
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Sep 23, 2008 - 01:32 PM |
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buzzd...
a) Having eaten at both, I do not consider La Casbah to be good pizza or Muncies to be a good meal. Both serve fast food crap for the masses.
b) Why does it bother you so much that others have a different value/price opinion than yours? |
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CK1
Raver
Joined: June 07, 2007
Posts: 498
Status: Offline
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Sep 23, 2008 - 01:32 PM |
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Yesterday I had a lasagna at this new Italian cafe on Huai Hai lu / Fuxing Lu.
It was big and it was goooooood. And, it stung me a whole 30 kuai. |
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Swiss-James
Fire-eater
Joined: Jan 05, 2007
Posts: 2502
Status: Offline
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Sep 23, 2008 - 02:13 PM |
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I really like Munchies- had the Philly cheese steak sandwich and some kind of pork thing with pickles the other day. Both good stuff. |
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Buzzd
PopStar
Joined: Jan 30, 2008
Posts: 1092
Status: Offline
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Sep 23, 2008 - 02:31 PM |
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a) Having eaten at both, I do not consider La Casbah to be good pizza or Muncies to be a good meal. Both serve fast food crap for the masses.
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Fair enough, but I disagree.
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b) Why does it bother you so much that others have a different value/price opinion than yours?
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Frankly, I don't really care. I enjoy the occasional splurge on a fine dinner with a bottle of wine, or a nice single malt at a classy bar. However, I have little tolerance for establishments that make false claims about rent, utilities, staff, etc. in order to justify outlandish prices. 120 for fish and chips at a pub falls into this category.
Enjoy. |
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thrlls33kr
Newbie
Joined: July 17, 2008
Posts: 3
Status: Offline
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Sep 23, 2008 - 04:01 PM |
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| armie wrote: |
This has to be the worst name for a bar in the history of bars. |
Except maybe for "Hello Bar" on Hengshan. Both are pretty descriptive as to what you can expect though. |
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travelman
Newbie
Joined: Sep 17, 2008
Posts: 3
Status: Offline
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Sep 25, 2008 - 03:27 AM |
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| SexyFatBuddha wrote: |
| monkey7020 wrote: |
Finally!!!
Someone on shanghaiexpat talking sense... thank you travelman!!!! |
A very naive monkey...
Look how many times Travelman has typed messages on this website. You don't think that maybe he was 'hired' by the Irish guy to write that stuff? |
Hello Mr."SexyFatBuddha"
Just on another fly'n visit to shanghai..! & Not that its any of your business, but I fly into Shanghai from HK every now and again.Second home if you like. I have nothing to do with this FINE establishment, only that I've gott'n to know the owner and staff. It sounds like you control the air waves/internet up these parts? But I would like to say, that the FOOD is top notch In the Pub! Yes, as mentioned before .."expensive" but the products that you've mentioned are all imported (like you & me!) Try the other beers/food on the menu that fit your argument! ALL taste great and the service is second to none from the girls that served us (We also asked if possible for extra bread&mashed potato which was not a problem!!!) We will be back again soon to Shanghai & sorry to disappoint you... we will be back to "The Irishmans Pub".,,,,over & out............. |
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Buzzd
PopStar
Joined: Jan 30, 2008
Posts: 1092
Status: Offline
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Sep 28, 2008 - 02:45 AM |
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Expat: Honey, how is your fish and chips at this absolutely decadent pub?
23 Year Old Chinese Girl: OMG! Tastes like fish! |
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travelman
Newbie
Joined: Sep 17, 2008
Posts: 3
Status: Offline
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 Posted:
Oct 20, 2008 - 03:07 AM |
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| Buzzd wrote: |
Expat: Honey, how is your fish and chips at this absolutely decadent pub?
23 Year Old Chinese Girl: OMG! Tastes like fish! |
sounds like you hang out in fine establishments! I mean... how many places serve fish'n chips? (..why all the talk about "fish & chips"?) give your self a break/holiday and be treated by "friendly staff" with a "fresh meal" with in minutes of your arrival,(lamb stew,beef guinness pie,etc..) all English speaking staff, smiling! To be honest, you don't sound like you've have a bite to eat there,only to have heard about their prices. Get to Hong Gao airport & it should be only 5mins on your right,(as soon as you've taken off i.e.! quickest way..) can't miss the Pub as they have "green shamrocks" & a "gold Harp thing design" outside the front door! Hence, yes, I have a much bitter view of shanghai as I see it a bit different twice a week, as that is my profession! My Fish & Chips.... I've moved on to the Corn Beef & Cabbage with mash and veg!!!  |
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MalonesGroup
Seeker
Joined: Aug 11, 2008
Posts: 41
Status: Offline
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Oct 20, 2008 - 10:48 AM |
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Malone`s is right across the street. Our Fish and Chips are Rmb75, which is 3 large cod fillets with a lot of chips (more than 10 for sure) served with tartar sauce and ketchup
Enjoy |
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