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dcyemail
Lurker
Joined: July 06, 2008
Posts: 21
Status: Offline
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 Posted:
Aug 22, 2008 - 05:00 PM |
 
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| Post subject: Lease rates - how negotiable are they? |
We are in the process of nailing down our housing choice for our impending move to Shanghai. We are curious how negotiable the lease rates are for buildings in Shanghai. For instance, a building of choice for us in Pudong has the same flat available on the 22nd, 23rd, and 32nd floors. The quoted rates are 58K for 22, 59K for 23, and 62K for 32. I believe the occupancy in the building is only about 60%. We wanted the higher floor, but we were only able to negotiate down the lower floor by 4K. Should the other two floors also be negotiable eventhough the management company is holding firm that they are not. Will the lease rates become flexible if we walk away from the negotiations. Fortunately we have a few other options in other places.
Just curious how negotiating works in Shanghai (we hear there is definitely inflated rate structure for expats).
Any feedback is greatly appreciated. FYI - we are represented by a service, but we are looking for some outside perspective.
Thanks. |
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Michael
Moderator
Joined: Mar 22, 2002
Posts: 5291
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Aug 22, 2008 - 06:42 PM |
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Depends on the landlord, or if all managed by the same property mgmt, them. If its been vacant for a long time, they might bend. If you offer them a wad of cash up front they might. One friend of mine walked and put cash on the table for 6 months of rent and ended up with a 170 sqm decent place in XuJia Hui for 6000 something.
The other trick is to get a local chinese to go in and negotiate everything until its time to sign the lease and then you come in. |
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dcyemail
Lurker
Joined: July 06, 2008
Posts: 21
Status: Offline
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Aug 22, 2008 - 08:58 PM |
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Michael,
Thank you for the info. The places we are considering are all "developer landlords". We are using relocation service to source housing so it is fairly obvious to the landlord they are dealing with expats as opposed local chinese tenants.
Thanks again |
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Mr Totomolo
Rocker
Joined: June 21, 2008
Posts: 702
Location: Shanghai & Taipei
Status: Offline
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Aug 23, 2008 - 02:55 AM |
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dcyemail.... Not really my business, and my reaction now , has been a topic of many threads on the forum, but...
60 K ..? How big and how luxury is the flat ?
Until April 2008, I was living in Huangpu Puxi on a 31st floor, 145 sqmt , great view over the Huangpu river, marble all over the entrance, elevators, and each and every floor. Brand new apartment, great hard dark wood floor, 2 baths, really nice furniture, equipped new kitchen and at 3 mn walk from a subway station ...for 4800 rmb/month
I can even send you pics to back up my words...
I am amazed !!  |
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clairiz
Talker
Joined: Aug 20, 2006
Posts: 96
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Aug 23, 2008 - 07:01 AM |
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Sounds more like a price for a villa in Jingqiao Pudong than a flat. I"m curious as to where this place is as well.
For that kind of money and the occupancy is only 60%, I think it's very negotiable.
Have you even seen the place yet? I wouldn't shell out that kind of money without seeing the place first. Don't sign too long of a contract. Everything is a surprise in China. |
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clairiz
Talker
Joined: Aug 20, 2006
Posts: 96
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Aug 23, 2008 - 07:10 AM |
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You might consider moving here first and live in a service apt for a month of so and try to find a place in the mean time. OR else, come and have a look at Shanghai in person.
Here's some ideas of the rental prices in Shanghai. The listed price is negotiable too.
http://cityspace.shanghaiexpat.com/ |
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GirlatWork
Raver
Joined: Feb 14, 2006
Posts: 471
Status: Offline
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Aug 23, 2008 - 10:44 AM |
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Is it Lakeville Regency?
Anyway if it's owned by a developer landlord, their leasing team gets a Rental Guideline and they would not have the authority to give you any significant discount. From the rental differences on different floors you can see the rentals are very structured. If they lower the rent for a higher floor, they will have trouble leasing the lower floor at their minimum guideline.
As for the 4800 / month apartments, well I can only say that everyone has their own standards. Do come here and see for yourself first before deciding your own lifestyle for at least a year.
Good luck. |
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monkey7020
Barker
Joined: June 10, 2006
Posts: 158
Status: Offline
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Aug 23, 2008 - 12:23 PM |
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re: girlatwork...
Yes, everyone has their own standards, but in many cases these 'expat' apartments are nothing short of a rip off. I currently pay 3500rmb for a 2 bed place. I have a friend working for a Fortune 500 company, whose apartment is over 50,000rmb/month. There is very little difference between the sizes and quality of the apartments, to the extent that my friend is now looking for new, slightly more value for money accommodation. |
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GirlatWork
Raver
Joined: Feb 14, 2006
Posts: 471
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Aug 23, 2008 - 01:00 PM |
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Yes there are plenty of rip off apartments but if you see "very little difference" between a 50000 apartment and a 3500 one, I congratulate you for not seeing them so that you can live happily on a lot less than some others need.
Everyone need different things in life and no one can pose them onto others.
So advice to the OP is still come here and see it for yourself. |
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monkey7020
Barker
Joined: June 10, 2006
Posts: 158
Status: Offline
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Aug 23, 2008 - 01:19 PM |
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NEED TO LIVE ON??
Your having a laugh right, girlatwork??? Anyone in Shanghai who is paying 20k+ a month for a 2 bed apartment is getting royally screwed over.
I've seen many many many apartments here, ranging from the cheapest to the most expensive (1000/month - 80k/month), and there is very very very little difference in the 8k - 80k range.
My previous apartment before moving was a 2 bed in the centre of Xujiahui, in an expat compound, with gym/swimming pool/clubhouse etc on a semi high floor. It had hardwood floors, and high quality western furniture. Satalitte tv was complemented by a full entertainment centre (flat screens, cinema sound etc) which was hard wired to all rooms. Central air con throughout. Western standard kitchen. Full jacuzzi bathtub in one bathroom. king size bed in master bedroom. large balcony. 8k a month.
For 50k a month i'd be expecting my own swimming pool and roof top garden, minimum!!! As you seem to believe that differences do exist, please justify the expat price tags of 20k plus for city centre apartments... |
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Mr Totomolo
Rocker
Joined: June 21, 2008
Posts: 702
Location: Shanghai & Taipei
Status: Offline
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Aug 23, 2008 - 01:53 PM |
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| Quote: |
Anyone in Shanghai who is paying 20k+ a month for a 2 bed apartment is getting royally screwed over.
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I back this up 1000%, Monkey
I left the 4800 rmb great flat after 2 years rent when the stupid landlord , listening to the real estate agent, tried to raise the rent to 8000.
Moved up about 800 meters closer to People Square.
Now still 145 sqmt, jacuzzi/massage shower in bahtroom, big flat screen tv, really big enclosed balcony, I even can use my indoor bicycle in it; really great inner park (ok no health gym center, no swimming pool) 5000/month management charges included...
And a great quality life, brand new Century supermarket at 50 meters, great wet market in at 30 meters..
And funny, the former landlord has been calling me already 4 times since April 2008, in case I would change my mind and come back to yaojiang garden, he would definitely "reconsider" the rent....  Dumbass, he will have the flat sitting on his hands another one year or 2
Sure, I dont have kids, I dont worry about school...but, somewhere, some people just like get screwed, specially if it is the company money...
I wonder how often many top executives having to work till 9pm in office can make use of the swimming pool in their residence ? Anyway to each one his own...
Just funny...I am still and forever amazed |
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dcyemail
Lurker
Joined: July 06, 2008
Posts: 21
Status: Offline
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Aug 23, 2008 - 09:30 PM |
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Lots of posts, but they really do not answer my original question. Girlatwork and clairiz, thank you for your posts (the information you provided helps). FYI - I have been to Shanghai, reviewed housing at several different price levels, and have settled on the pricing range I mentioned in my first post. Girlatwork, would you consider the Lakeville Regency a rip off? I certainly wouldn't.
Thanks again. |
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Mr Totomolo
Rocker
Joined: June 21, 2008
Posts: 702
Location: Shanghai & Taipei
Status: Offline
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Aug 23, 2008 - 09:41 PM |
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monalisalee
Rocker
Joined: May 10, 2005
Posts: 643
Location: Shanghai
Status: Offline
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Aug 23, 2008 - 10:50 PM |
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Up to 62K? You got to be joking!. That would get you a very decent place for a year. As said, come and have a good look around first. You can do a lot better. It is true that the higher floors cost a LITTLE more, but after 22, why would you want to go any higher?. Bummer in an earthquake!.
As Michael said, get a local to negotiate for you. I am married to a Chinese girl, and she is a ruthless negotiator, so we do it all the time. It is great to see the faces drop, when I come in and pay the bill.
John. |
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johnboy88 |
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monalisalee
Rocker
Joined: May 10, 2005
Posts: 643
Location: Shanghai
Status: Offline
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Aug 23, 2008 - 11:58 PM |
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dcyemail said:
| Quote: |
Lots of posts, but they really do not answer my original question. Girlatwork and clairiz, thank you for your posts (the information you provided helps). FYI - I have been to Shanghai, reviewed housing at several different price levels, and have settled on the pricing range I mentioned in my first post. Girlatwork, would you consider the Lakeville Regency a rip off? I certainly wouldn't.
Thanks again.
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My God, seems you have more money than brains, and made up your mind, before posting. Do you NEED to tell your friends you are spending XYZ on rental to impress?
Not impressing too many here though. But good to know you have been to Shanghai, and know everything about the place. But poodong Jeez!. I've been here 4 1/2 years, and still learning, guess i'm a bit slow. If you need to throw money away, I can give you some streets, that would really appreciate 100 rmb bills scattered around. Sorry, 100 is the biggest you can get here. |
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johnboy88 |
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Wasabichez
PopStar
Joined: Dec 05, 2002
Posts: 1225
Location: Shanghai, China
Status: Offline
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Aug 24, 2008 - 12:26 AM |
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You really have to state the size of the apt. For that kinda money it had better be over 300sqm. It does sound like Lakeside though. That place takes its time in finding buyers because they make money by low volume, high profit margin. Then that super inflated rental price is definitely to hedge their costs.
I think your company should put you up in a service apartment for about 3 months. You can swing by your collegues apts, and friends that you make in the first 3 months to understand what is out there, and what your demands will be, and to get an expected price.
I think if a relocation service/real estate agent that finds the apartment for you is going to get you to pay that kind of rent, they had better deal with any issues you end up having in the future. These agents are always screwing people over on both sides. |
Last edited by Wasabichez on Aug 24, 2008 - 12:35 AM; edited 1 time in total |
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monkey7020
Barker
Joined: June 10, 2006
Posts: 158
Status: Offline
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Aug 24, 2008 - 12:33 AM |
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My god... I don't believe some of the foreigners in this place. Again, please come and deposit some of those 100rmb notes round my building.
And yes, I consider Regency a rip off...
I have a friend within 5 minutes walk of Regency paying 33000rmb, for a 5 bedroom (well over 300sqm) with a roof top garden.... 62000rmb??????!!! your having a laugh mate!!!!
Tell you what - I'll find you a place for 20k, the same quality as your looking at for 62k... you can just give me one months rent as commission ok??? |
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monalisalee
Rocker
Joined: May 10, 2005
Posts: 643
Location: Shanghai
Status: Offline
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Aug 24, 2008 - 12:45 AM |
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Yeah, dead right monkey. Unbelievable, and it's people like that, that keep the rents high for the rest of us poor bxggars. Boo Hoo. |
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johnboy88 |
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Renovator
Raver
Joined: Apr 18, 2007
Posts: 488
Location: Century Park & MA,USA
Status: Offline
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Aug 24, 2008 - 05:08 AM |
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As David Hannum once said but most often credited to P.T Barnhum, "There is a sucker born every minute" and we sure do see them over and over again amongst the Expats in Shanghai.
However, as long as there are willing buyers and willing sellers or willing landlords and willing renters at what seem to be rediculous prices to some of us what right do we have to question the motives of any of these parties?
For every deal that a salesman or landlord makes at a huge profit in China, that same salesman or landlord needs to to make a whole lot of deals at a slim profit margin, or even at a loss from time to time in order to stay in business or he/she in the long run gets stuck holding onto a lot or realestate or merchandise.
We always hear about the "killer deal" one party or the other made but not about all the other marginal or loss deals that were made before or after the "killer deal" by either party. |
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bezoli
Raver
Joined: Aug 30, 2006
Posts: 402
Status: Offline
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Aug 25, 2008 - 12:37 PM |
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Hi,
developer owned at these prices it sounds a lot like the pinnacle huashan.
I tried to negotiate the 3rd floor down to 38k for my customer and I even knew the sales lady very well before she went into pinnacle.
But it didn't work, the lowest they went is from 43 to 40k.
Big Devs are different, they have bottom lines and fixed pricing, not a lot of negotiation to do.
But! there is a few tricks.
Talk to the guys and see if there are ways.
Sometimes, if the manager is cool you'll ask him to give you a month for free and lower the rent like 2k. That way he can show his boss he rented for say 40, but because of the free month you rent at 37.
cheers, and good luck finding something. |
_________________
A place in Shanghai @ www.shplace.com |
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barrel
Barker
Joined: May 16, 2008
Posts: 161
Status: Offline
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Aug 31, 2008 - 12:26 PM |
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62k??? Is the apartment made from gold?? Or perhaps the floor is encrusted with diamonds??
The fact that you already "settled on this pricing range" makes me wonder why you are quibbling with the agency over several thousand RMB on the rent, particularly when you seem to be unwilling to listen to the advice of others that could get you a similar quality/sized apartment and save you tens of thousands. |
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