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woaihuan
Veejay
Joined: Dec 15, 2007
Posts: 1848
Status: Offline
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  Posted:
Aug 23, 2008 - 08:52 AM |
 
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| Post subject: Local's motorcycle licence, etc, and service life length? |
Looking at getting a Sachs Madass 125, the one I'm looking at is a couple years old and the seller is not familiar with service life/inspections. It is registered out of Shanghai and has had plates for the entire two years.
How many years more can it be rode before it has to be decommissioned? Or does that depend on whether or not it can pass inspection? When is inspection typically?
And for a local's motorcycle license. What's the process on this? Do they require training or can they basically just do a test and yay they can ride?
And final question (I know, I know, shame on me), am I correct to believe that in China as long as one person in/on the vehicle has a drivers license, it does not have to be the driver?
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CoffeeHawk_0
Board Buddha
Joined: July 14, 2005
Posts: 14444
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Aug 23, 2008 - 10:31 AM |
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there's a lot of threads on this, but you want a scooter, not a motorcycle, right? There's a big difference legally.
http://www.peirspeed.com/madass125.htm
This is very cool looking though, I think a scooter must be 50cc or less? |
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computersolutions
FooJay
Joined: July 02, 2006
Posts: 1785
Location: Shanghai
Status: Offline
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Aug 23, 2008 - 10:44 AM |
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Anything over 50cc is a motorbike (regardless of whether its a scooter or not).
You aren't allowed to drive a gas bike in town.
Fine if you are caught 200RMB.
You need a motorbike licence "E" licence.
If you don't have that, you can get 2 weeks in jail and kicked out of the country if stopped.
Motorcycle licence.
For everyone -
Paperwork for Medical.
Then back to runaround for more paperwork at Minhang
Then the multiple choice test (English only done at Minhang).
Then pickup more paperwork etc.
Then book the testing (approx 750).
Need to rent a bike (or bring your own - don't think they'll let you use the madcat though!).
Bike rental 450.
Do about 5 hours of training, book the test.
Pass, get your E licence.
Oh, and one last thing -
You can't carry passengers on a motorbike unless you have a yellow licence plate. |
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rayne
Reacher
Joined: May 19, 2008
Posts: 237
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Aug 23, 2008 - 10:57 AM |
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If you're doing the 'conversion' test for car driving licence here, could you apply for the motorbike licence at the same time and would you still have to do all the training? |
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woaihuan
Veejay
Joined: Dec 15, 2007
Posts: 1848
Status: Offline
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Aug 23, 2008 - 11:34 AM |
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What, wait, wait?
What is the difference? Don't you need a license for a 50cc scooter too? (petrol, not LPG) |
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woaihuan
Veejay
Joined: Dec 15, 2007
Posts: 1848
Status: Offline
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Aug 23, 2008 - 11:36 AM |
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I thought that legally a petrol 50cc and a petrol 125-250cc was the same. The only difference was the <50cc LPG scooter.
So what are the requirements to ride a petrol 50cc that are different than a petrol 125cc? |
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sinned69
SuperStar
Joined: Sep 01, 2004
Posts: 1511
Location: China, Middle East, Asia Pacific
Status: Offline
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Aug 23, 2008 - 11:39 AM |
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| Looking at getting a Sachs Madass 125, the one I'm looking at is a couple years old and the seller is not familiar with service life/inspections. It is registered out of Shanghai and has had plates for the entire two years. |
all motorbikes, motor-scooters are required to pass a government inspection two after first being registered, then annually thereafter. You also need to make sure that the bike has had the annual road user/license fee paid each year it has been registered. If this has not been done, then the outstanding period has to be paid with additional penalties. Depending on how long the unpaid period might be, there are maximum time limits on how long a unpaid license plate remains valid. So i hope i'm being clear. one buys a plate, as well as annual (or part thereof) license fee (which is the same as a road users fee), and there is no provision to put that fee on hold, it has to be paid every year.
| Quote: |
| How many years more can it be rode before it has to be decommissioned? Or does that depend on whether or not it can pass inspection? When is inspection typically? |
there are variations on the rules depending on where the bike is first licensed, so i cannot answer you on the first part of your question. That being said, all private vehicles must pass inspections, which occur two years after being first registered/licensed from new, then annually thereafter.
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| And for a local's motorcycle license. What's the process on this? Do they require training or can they basically just do a test and yay they can ride? |
yes. a local requires training. dependent on a number of factors, like location and guanxigang 
| Quote: |
| And final question (I know, I know, shame on me), am I correct to believe that in China as long as one person in/on the vehicle has a drivers license, it does not have to be the driver? |
that is factually incorrect, the person riding the bike is the one who MUST be licensed, one cannot rely on the fact that a pillion has the license. |
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qing nin shao deng |
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woaihuan
Veejay
Joined: Dec 15, 2007
Posts: 1848
Status: Offline
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Aug 23, 2008 - 11:40 AM |
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| computersolutions wrote: |
Anything over 50cc is a motorbike (regardless of whether its a scooter or not).
You aren't allowed to drive a gas bike in town.
Fine if you are caught 200RMB.
You need a motorbike licence "E" licence.
If you don't have that, you can get 2 weeks in jail and kicked out of the country if stopped.
Motorcycle licence.
For everyone -
Paperwork for Medical.
Then back to runaround for more paperwork at Minhang
Then the multiple choice test (English only done at Minhang).
Then pickup more paperwork etc.
Then book the testing (approx 750).
Need to rent a bike (or bring your own - don't think they'll let you use the madcat though!).
Bike rental 450.
Do about 5 hours of training, book the test.
Pass, get your E licence.
Oh, and one last thing -
You can't carry passengers on a motorbike unless you have a yellow licence plate. |
As I said, I'm framiliar with all of this, but I thought it applied BOTH to 50cc and >50cc. Please clear up what the restrictions are for <50cc, as that would be a better option for me if it was more legal to use. |
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sinned69
SuperStar
Joined: Sep 01, 2004
Posts: 1511
Location: China, Middle East, Asia Pacific
Status: Offline
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Aug 23, 2008 - 11:50 AM |
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If you're doing the 'conversion' test for car driving licence here, could you apply for the motorbike licence at the same time and would you still have to do all the training?
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NO!
the license(s) you apply for is based on what license categories you already hold, and just how officious the translation service is, and lastly on what categories the licensing testing centre will allow. if you only hold a foreign license for car, thats all you can get. (unless ofcourse you have guanxi, buy a fake license, or just plain lie).
FYI. when i went through the process, i had my license translated, and the translation office only authenticated the car category, but i have many others;
car, fire appliance (heavy), ambulance, small passenger endorsement, motorbike, heavy truck, heavy trailer.
so i asked that the translation centre authenticate all categories to which they responded by authenticating; car, motorcycle, ambulance, truck.
at the testing centre, they would only allow me to be licensed for car, motorcycle and truck, even though i also work in a medium sized hospital here, have the ambulance dept co-located onsite, and have at times driven one of the hospital ambulance vehicles.
no amount of talking could persuade the testing centre to approve the ambulance license category. |
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qing nin shao deng |
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sinned69
SuperStar
Joined: Sep 01, 2004
Posts: 1511
Location: China, Middle East, Asia Pacific
Status: Offline
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Aug 23, 2008 - 11:58 AM |
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As I said, I'm framiliar with all of this, but I thought it applied BOTH to 50cc and >50cc. Please clear up what the restrictions are for <50cc, as that would be a better option for me if it was more legal to use.
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shanghai is unique, in that there are <49cc LNG (gas not petrol/benzine) bikes that get a blue license/registration plate, these are categorised in with the likes of bicycles, e-bikes, which is why one sees them in the bicycle lanes & bicycle only streets. 50cc or higher are motorbikes or motorscooters and must use the normal roadways. the annual license/road user fees for LNG powered bikes are cheaper as is the ferry fee to cross the huangpu, than a petrol bike with yellow license/registration plate. it used to be that one still needed a license with those <49cc LNG bikes, but since i have been out of shanghai for 3yrs+ -don't quote me on it. TIC and things change here rapidly. |
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qing nin shao deng |
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sinned69
SuperStar
Joined: Sep 01, 2004
Posts: 1511
Location: China, Middle East, Asia Pacific
Status: Offline
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Aug 23, 2008 - 12:01 PM |
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incidentally, peirspeed bikes are also called monkey bikes |
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qing nin shao deng |
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woaihuan
Veejay
Joined: Dec 15, 2007
Posts: 1848
Status: Offline
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Aug 23, 2008 - 08:43 PM |
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Three years... maybe you're talking about the <50cc mopeds that got banned a couple years ago? |
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sinned69
SuperStar
Joined: Sep 01, 2004
Posts: 1511
Location: China, Middle East, Asia Pacific
Status: Offline
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Aug 24, 2008 - 12:19 AM |
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| Three years... maybe you're talking about the <50cc mopeds that got banned a couple years ago? |
im not living in shanghai any longer, i live 500km away however i travel to SH frequently commuting by either my car or one of my two bikes... |
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qing nin shao deng |
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woaihuan
Veejay
Joined: Dec 15, 2007
Posts: 1848
Status: Offline
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Aug 24, 2008 - 08:47 AM |
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Wait, LNG?
I don't think I've seen any scooters running on that.
I really think you're referring to LPG, because basically all the things you have described are the same as LPG restrictions, except that LPGs don't require a E license. Just a red book one that doesn't require any training.
And petrol scooters under 50CC do not fall into that category.
It would be perfect if I could get a LPG scooter, because I could run it 100% legally (as long as it wasn't stolen and with fake plates), but unfortunately there is no LPG gas station in this area. |
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computersolutions
FooJay
Joined: July 02, 2006
Posts: 1785
Location: Shanghai
Status: Offline
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Aug 24, 2008 - 07:10 PM |
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I've got a gas scooter <50cc (Blue Plate)
Runs on Petrol (Petrol - 90 or 93 or 97...).
Illegal to drive inside the ringroad, as they've been banned for a year or three.
It is licensed though, although to someone outside the city in Podunk somewhere.
I drive it around, although I am well aware that if I get stopped its a 200RMB fine.
The benefits outweigh the negatives.
I also have an LPG bike, 85cc. (Green Plate)
LPG needs a driving licence if more than 50cc, according to the licencing place around the corner from my house. Also note that LPG licences will be stopped in Shanghai by 2012.
I've looked into a motorbike, but thats a little expensive, unless you go for an out of town plate.
A new LPG will cost around 7000RMB for the cheapest bike, and about 4000-6000 for a plate.
There are no new plates available, they are all bought from other people.
If you buy a stolen bike, that will run you around 1500-2000RMB. The documentation supplied would pass a street stop by police, but if you get into an accident, you are pretty screwed.
I have my first real motorbike lesson for my E licence on Monday morning.
Anyone wants the address etc, let me know, I have it scanned on my desktop at work. |
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woaihuan
Veejay
Joined: Dec 15, 2007
Posts: 1848
Status: Offline
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Aug 24, 2008 - 10:50 PM |
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But, since you don't have an E license I assume, (since you are about to take the lesson), then how do you get stopped, ticketed 200rmb and let go?
Don't you need a E license to ride a petrol scooter, regardless of whether it is <50CC>50CC?
Wouldn't they stop you, ticket you, and then jail you for not having a license? Same goes for the LPG of 85CC.
(btw, I went the stolen LPG route for a couple weeks - the documentation may get a local out of trouble, but since it's a Chinese guy's name and picture in the papers, wouldn't that mean that look a bit weird? When I got pulled over I was worried about that and didn't produce the papers, acted like I didn't know what it was. He ran the plates, yakked at the other guy and then they left (after flipping the seat and realizing that without a doubt, this was a stolen bike).
edit: he did let me go, but I was too paranoid after that and I sold it. |
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computersolutions
FooJay
Joined: July 02, 2006
Posts: 1785
Location: Shanghai
Status: Offline
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Aug 24, 2008 - 11:32 PM |
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I have a Chinese driving licence, albeit for cars. This is deemed acceptable for my < 50cc moped, although not for the LPG. Again, its still illegal to drive my moped inside the city outer ringroad. I have not been stopped yet.
My friend has been stopped driving the LPG, and was allowed to go after producing his Chinese drivers licence. They were more concerned about plates though - at that point we hadn't received the actual plates, although we had the paperwork to prove it was in process.
I have been working towards getting an E licence though, as I do try to do this stuff legally, despite the governments best efforts at thwarting my plans via bureaucracy.
Its taken a little over 3 months to get the paperwork and other bits together to this point. I expect to have it all done before the end of next month.
Hurdles included things like having to redo *all* the paperwork again because my passport number was different from when I got my drivers licence here years ago.
Misinforming us multiple times as to what paperwork was needed, despite calling to confirm multiple times. Neglecting to give me a vital piece of paper after the medical test, meaning I needed to do that again, not telling us we needed more photo's (although I guessed that would happen and paid for extra's just in case). Plus the typical having all the departments that you need to go to far far away from each other, in different parts of the city.
Thats par for the course though.
I have been looking at the MadCat's on Taobao - they're about 5000 with plate, which is tempting, but I kind of like the 50cc for safety - it max's out at about 70km's, if I had anything faster, I'd be likely to get killed by someone no looking where they're going - pedestrian or car...
Lawrence. |
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woaihuan
Veejay
Joined: Dec 15, 2007
Posts: 1848
Status: Offline
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Aug 25, 2008 - 08:01 AM |
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5000 with plate? Legal ones?
New they go for about 12,000. However I did come across some very high quality counterfeits on Taobao. Makes me wonder whether they can be registered. Where did you see them for 5000? (link please, I didn't find any less than 12,000 on Taobao, other than a single one 'with no documents and can't be licensed')
For someone without a Chinese license, though, it is no more legal to have a <50CC>50CC motorcycle. |
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computersolutions
FooJay
Joined: July 02, 2006
Posts: 1785
Location: Shanghai
Status: Offline
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Aug 25, 2008 - 08:55 AM |
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http://auction1.taobao.com/auction/item_detail-0db1-f41e3c30d072e5791a 989b8dafd59a53.jhtml (no plate, but they can organize for you).
http://auction1.taobao.com/auction/item_detail-0db2-020d076f421cfe4f01 0aba983720e29f.jhtml (with plate, receipt)
飞鹰大刀郎带发票和外地真牌
I've underlined the essentials in Chinese for you. Yes, its waidi plate, but unless you want to spend 26k for a Shanghai one, you're better off with a out of town one.
Note, I never said they were new, just 5k+-.
New they go for about 9k actually, less if you know the manufacturers (7k ish). I have 2 clients that sell bikes and ATV's, so could probably organize myself one, although I've never asked (we did websites for them).
You can do them up a little - eg add new exhaust, carbon protector for the muffler? so you don't get ankles burnt, add a waidi plate - to bring it up to 12k, which might be the price you're being given. Are you talking about the shop on Zhong Shan road?
The fake ones (crap, don't touch with bargepole) go for 2500-3000. |
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woaihuan
Veejay
Joined: Dec 15, 2007
Posts: 1848
Status: Offline
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| Posted:
Aug 25, 2008 - 09:20 AM |
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One of those sellers has 0 feedback and and the other has 4 feedback, and is selling stolen motorcycles as well.
When I said fake ones, I didn't mean the fake ones on taobao. There are fake ones that are EXACT duplicates out of Guangdong. I saw a few pictures of them on a BBS and they were going to go for 4500 for 50cc, 5500 for 125cc.
The muffler is under the seat... how would that burn my ankles?
I've never been able to find the Sachs shop in Shanghai. Is there one on Zhongshan road? |
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computersolutions
FooJay
Joined: July 02, 2006
Posts: 1785
Location: Shanghai
Status: Offline
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Aug 25, 2008 - 09:43 AM |
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So pick another seller, there are at least 10 on there for Shanghai in that price range...
I don't know what the part is called, just know its is part of the exhaust bit, hot, and 2 of my friends with MadCats bought the carbon bit to go over it. The carbon bit gets cool pretty much instantly, so no danger of burns.
Its not a Sach's shop, he sells MadCats though. Tons of german's have bought them over the last few years from there. Don't have the number to hand. |
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sinned69
SuperStar
Joined: Sep 01, 2004
Posts: 1511
Location: China, Middle East, Asia Pacific
Status: Offline
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| Posted:
Aug 25, 2008 - 10:22 AM |
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Wait, LNG?
I don't think I've seen any scooters running on that.
I really think you're referring to LPG, because... |
well in China they dont call it LPG, they call it LNG. same thing. The bikes they call call LPG or at least did when i lived in SH. we don't see those LPG bikes here. only the LPG in e-bike copies. |
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qing nin shao deng |
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woaihuan
Veejay
Joined: Dec 15, 2007
Posts: 1848
Status: Offline
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Aug 25, 2008 - 10:33 AM |
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Liquefied petroleum gas vs. Liquefied natural gas
It is not the same thing. |
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sinned69
SuperStar
Joined: Sep 01, 2004
Posts: 1511
Location: China, Middle East, Asia Pacific
Status: Offline
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Aug 25, 2008 - 10:38 AM |
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Liquefied petroleum gas vs. Liquefied natural gas
It is not the same thing.
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true.
my point being that they use the terms interchangeably here in PRC.
its like to call a tomato a "too-mate-oh" or "too-mart-oh" |
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qing nin shao deng |
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woaihuan
Veejay
Joined: Dec 15, 2007
Posts: 1848
Status: Offline
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Aug 25, 2008 - 10:40 AM |
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I think of it more as... calling a tomato a "tomato" or "potato".
It sounds similar, but it's not. |
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