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gilroy
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Joined: Aug 12, 2007
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Aug 28, 2008 - 11:21 PM |
 
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Is it possible to fear or mistrust something without you considering it being a bias? Of course it is possible. Same question, is it possible to form a bias out of fear or mistrust of something?
Thank you for keep reading my barely understandable posts. Congratulations English tutor for the discovery that a good way to tell a native English speaker from a non-native is to see whether he can correctly understand whether fear and bias always follow one another. |
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Chingis
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Joined: Oct 02, 2005
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Aug 29, 2008 - 12:33 AM |
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Your English is not that bad, so don't beat yourself up. Its your powers of logical thinking that need some work. Making unfounded accusations, and pronouncing them as fact might work on Xinhua, or other neo-nazi Chinese language sites, but I need a little more convincing.
The Gallup poll shows that some Americans see China as an enemy, but since you've just said that fear and mistrust don't necessarily stem from bias, again, where is your evidence that the western media is biased against China?
The poll does nothing to support your friends original supposition . |
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georgeshen
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Aug 29, 2008 - 12:54 AM |
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^ Chingis, you want more survey, right? But I suspect even if the evidence is so overwhelming, a f_ktard like you still couldn’t see it or admit it. Anyways. Here is a bit (maybe too much already) for your little mind to digest.
BBC World Service poll
http://www.globescan.com/news_archives/bbc06-3/index.html
Views of China have deteriorated sharply over the last year, but a plurality continues to view China positively in the world. Among the 20 countries polled both years, the number rating China mainly positively has dropped from 13 countries in 2004 to eight today, while those rating it negatively have risen from three countries to seven. On average, positive ratings of China have dropped 9 points.
What is most striking is the change that has occurred among European countries and Canada. While in 2004 four of the seven European countries polled plus Canada had a plurality with a positive view of China, today only one country—Spain—still has a plurality positive view. France’s positive rating dropped from 49 percent to 31 percent while a majority of 53 percent now view China negatively. Italy’s positive rating dropped from 42 percent to 22 percent, and a 55 percent majority now have a negative view. Positive views dropped in Great Britain (46% to 40%) and Canada (49% to 36%), with pluralities now having a negative view. Views in Russia also worsened—positive views dropping from a plurality positive of 42 percent to a divided 32 percent positive, 33 percent negative. Finland—polled for the first time—also came in 54 percent negative.
Read that poll, you idiot, in the U.S. it’s 53% for mainly negative to 35% mainly positive
I am sure your follow up will be WHERE IS THE EVIDENCE? right? f_ktard! |
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Chingis
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Joined: Oct 02, 2005
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Aug 29, 2008 - 01:08 AM |
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DP... |
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Last edited by Chingis on Aug 29, 2008 - 01:19 AM; edited 3 times in total |
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Chingis
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Joined: Oct 02, 2005
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Aug 29, 2008 - 01:14 AM |
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TP |
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Last edited by Chingis on Aug 29, 2008 - 01:21 AM; edited 1 time in total |
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Chingis
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Joined: Oct 02, 2005
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Aug 29, 2008 - 01:17 AM |
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Yes, positive views maybe falling, but does this necessarily mean media bias is the cause? Get it? I want to know why you chose media bias as the reason, it's really that simple.
Is the answer that it fits nicely with your view that China is always the poor victim, and that any bad feelings MUST be the result of the media lying and not portraying things as they are. Of course, any reasonable-minded person must agree that China's rise will be peaceful, and any fear, is of course the result of misunderstanding, and/ or scheming by foreign forces?
Isnt that right Georgie boy?
And I do so apologise for having the sheer audacity to ask for evidence to support a conclusion. |
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georgeshen
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Joined: Apr 30, 2006
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Aug 29, 2008 - 02:56 AM |
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^Sure, sure....the Western media's constant and repetitive comparison of China to Nazi German and N. Korea help the Chinese build a real accurate and positive image in the public opinions and minds in the West? Right? And yup, throwing China in the Axis of Evil after Iran and Iraq before N.K. will also really really help the case... F-ktard.
Frankly, I don't give a f-k how the West perceives China if it won't affect me and my family here in the U.S. The unfortunate reality is I do look like Chinese and so do my kids. What the f-k am I supposed to do? Do you expect me to say - yup my kids (born in the US thus americans) and I should be apologetic and/ constantly be discriminated against in the U.S. because no matter what passports we hold we look Chinese??? If my kids can't grow up in a healthy social environment in the "free" world, then why the f-k I bothered to move to the States 16 years ago in hoping that I would create a better future for them? They may grow up in an environment with much less discrimination and predudice (because they look Chinese at least) in an authoritarian regime than in a "free" country with "human-rights". What bunch of bullfeces. F-k that! |
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Bohica
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Joined: July 25, 2008
Posts: 292
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Aug 29, 2008 - 06:57 AM |
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| gilroy wrote: |
Is it possible to fear or mistrust something without you considering it being a bias? Of course it is possible. Same question, is it possible to form a bias out of fear or mistrust of something?
Thank you for keep reading my barely understandable posts. Congratulations English tutor for the discovery that a good way to tell a native English speaker from a non-native is to see whether he can correctly understand whether fear and bias always follow one another. |
George,this is the point I was trying to make. I don't have a poll but talking with all my friends and family in the states, I really think it's the fear more than the media bias. In America life is getting more and more difficult for the middle class (mainly because of bad governance IMHO) and in China life is improving rapidly. The americans and europeans need someone to blame and China is the target. As I said before, Globalization causes a lot of dislocation for people and not every benefits equally. This is bound to create bad feelings. As much as many people love conspiracy theories, I think it's human nature. Doesn't make it right, but it is what it is. |
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gilroy
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Joined: Aug 12, 2007
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Aug 29, 2008 - 07:39 AM |
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Chingis, it is a waste of my time trying to convince your cheap mind. Respect goes to Bohica who at least contribute the fear theory. On the fear theory, Bohica, when do you think is the year that symbolizes the rise of China following which the fear ensued. How did your friends and family in the states grow the fear that the rise of China will impact their lifestyle? What role did the media in the states play in the formation of the fear? |
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hc
Post Roaster
Joined: Apr 04, 2007
Posts: 4545
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Aug 29, 2008 - 07:46 AM |
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"Frankly, I don't give a f-k how the West perceives China if it won't affect me and my family here in the U.S."
Except that you do, as the post of how your delicate son is bullied by the Evil White Man indicated.
You give a HUGE F-K, mostly because your inferiority complex flares up every day when you look at the mirror and at the urinal.
So, don't give us this crap georgie, we know you care enough to try and battle a bunch of people thousand kms away from your home in the country you hate.
Wash out Han traitor. |
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Kiwi
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Joined: May 07, 2003
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Aug 29, 2008 - 07:46 AM |
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Tiananmen? |
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gilroy
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Joined: Aug 12, 2007
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Aug 29, 2008 - 08:14 AM |
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hc you probably should single out those who hate both the glorious motherland and the glorious CCP from those who only hate the latter. |
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Bohica
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Joined: July 25, 2008
Posts: 292
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Aug 29, 2008 - 08:49 AM |
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| gilroy wrote: |
| Chingis, it is a waste of my time trying to convince your cheap mind. Respect goes to Bohica who at least contribute the fear theory. On the fear theory, Bohica, when do you think is the year that symbolizes the rise of China following which the fear ensued. How did your friends and family in the states grow the fear that the rise of China will impact their lifestyle? What role did the media in the states play in the formation of the fear? |
I don't have fear. I believe that the rise of China and Asia in general is very positive for the world. The fear comes more from populist rhetoric from politicians than media. I (IMHO) believe there is reason for the fear if you are in the unskilled and under-educated portion of the population.
Most of the people I know in the states (family included) listen to the nonsense that comes out of Washington everyday and they feel fear. I don't think (as George does) that most people just hate for no reason.
Aruably, no country in the world has benefitted more from China's rise than America. The flow of low cost goods has kept inflation in check for over 20 years. I have never heard a politician say that, they just say you lost your job because somebody in China or india will do it cheaper.
They should be saying, the world is changing and only the strong will survive. Get yourself trained and educated to participate in the brave new world. Instead they play to their fears and offer up the public tit to suck on. It doesn't work, never has, and never will. |
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Nathalie25
Board Legend
Joined: Aug 24, 2004
Posts: 10387
Location: Shanghai
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Aug 29, 2008 - 08:56 AM |
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Aruably, no country in the world has benefitted more from China's rise than America. The flow of low cost goods has kept inflation in check for over 20 years. I have never heard a politician say that, they just say you lost your job because somebody in China or india will do it cheaper.
They should be saying, the world is changing and only the strong will survive. Get yourself trained and educated to participate in the brave new world. Instead they play to their fears and offer up the public tit to suck on. It doesn't work, never has, and never will. |
I agree with your words indeed.
Since China get the development of financial or politics for being strong and much stronger on rising their education & economic supports for kids in China its motherland, then China has no fears for being invaded or blackmailed by those European or Western countries, so when you get cheap goods from China, then your life can also being cheap by your choice, cheers~~~~~~~~ |
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gilroy
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Joined: Aug 12, 2007
Posts: 40
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Aug 29, 2008 - 09:39 AM |
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| Bohica wrote: |
| The fear comes more from populist rhetoric from politicians than media. I (IMHO) believe there is reason for the fear if you are in the unskilled and under-educated portion of the population. |
I am almost convinced by you Bohica, except a few more questions. Which year (or what event) you think symbolizes the rise of China, and what view on China did Americans have before that year/event. What did the media do when the politicians preached the populist rhetoric? Did they repeat the rhetoric? |
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hc
Post Roaster
Joined: Apr 04, 2007
Posts: 4545
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Aug 29, 2008 - 09:53 AM |
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| Bohica wrote: |
| gilroy wrote: |
| Chingis, it is a waste of my time trying to convince your cheap mind. Respect goes to Bohica who at least contribute the fear theory. On the fear theory, Bohica, when do you think is the year that symbolizes the rise of China following which the fear ensued. How did your friends and family in the states grow the fear that the rise of China will impact their lifestyle? What role did the media in the states play in the formation of the fear? |
I don't have fear. I believe that the rise of China and Asia in general is very positive for the world. The fear comes more from populist rhetoric from politicians than media. I (IMHO) believe there is reason for the fear if you are in the unskilled and under-educated portion of the population.
Most of the people I know in the states (family included) listen to the nonsense that comes out of Washington everyday and they feel fear. I don't think (as George does) that most people just hate for no reason.
Aruably, no country in the world has benefitted more from China's rise than America. The flow of low cost goods has kept inflation in check for over 20 years. I have never heard a politician say that, they just say you lost your job because somebody in China or india will do it cheaper.
They should be saying, the world is changing and only the strong will survive. Get yourself trained and educated to participate in the brave new world. Instead they play to their fears and offer up the public tit to suck on. It doesn't work, never has, and never will. |
That's a pretty good post right there.
Unfortunately will go unnoticed by those who need to read this the most. |
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Bohica
Reacher
Joined: July 25, 2008
Posts: 292
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Aug 29, 2008 - 03:18 PM |
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| gilroy wrote: |
| Bohica wrote: |
| The fear comes more from populist rhetoric from politicians than media. I (IMHO) believe there is reason for the fear if you are in the unskilled and under-educated portion of the population. |
I am almost convinced by you Bohica, except a few more questions. Which year (or what event) you think symbolizes the rise of China, and what view on China did Americans have before that year/event. What did the media do when the politicians preached the populist rhetoric? Did they repeat the rhetoric? |
Remember that even though China has grown very fast over the past 30 years, it is still less than 1/2 the size of the US in gross domestic product (if you don't include HK and Taiwan). Imagine 30 years ago when the growth started. I'm not going to look up exact figures, but China'a GDP for the early portion of that 30 year period would have been pretty insignificant and not very threatening.
The US GDP today is approx 14 trillion. At 3% growth, it adds $420 billion per year to it's economy. China, at 4 trillion would have to grow 10% to have the same level of growth in real terms. And it is happening .
So in short, I think the fear has accelerated over the years, and the rhetoric has accelerated over the years. Bush Sr. was positive about China because he understood it. Clinton turned populist in rhetoric but did a lot of positive things. And let's face, even most honest conservatives would have to give the current Bush regime a failing grade.
I am not by any means a fan of the media but I believe it's pretty balanced. It's just like living here. If you want to focus on the negative side (George) a lot of westerners will leave here tomorrow or focus on the positive side and feel fortunate to see the magnificent change at a rate probably unimagined 20 years ago. |
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georgeshen
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Joined: Apr 30, 2006
Posts: 451
Location: Boston, Shanghai
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Aug 29, 2008 - 06:53 PM |
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Did you understand what I was trying to say? Isn't that what I stated - I have to care about this shiit because I live in this country? How we are perceived is affected by how the medias portait us? Don't know what the f-k you are trying to get at.
The reason I care enough is exactly what I just told you. Your "han traitor" mark is both outrageous and despicable. Here is something for your little mind - I don't just "battle" here. I battle everywhere......
| hc wrote: |
"Frankly, I don't give a f-k how the West perceives China if it won't affect me and my family here in the U.S."
Except that you do, as the post of how your delicate son is bullied by the Evil White Man indicated.
You give a HUGE F-K, mostly because your inferiority complex flares up every day when you look at the mirror and at the urinal.
So, don't give us this crap georgie, we know you care enough to try and battle a bunch of people thousand kms away from your home in the country you hate.
Wash out Han traitor. |
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Last edited by georgeshen on Aug 29, 2008 - 07:08 PM; edited 1 time in total |
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georgeshen
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Joined: Apr 30, 2006
Posts: 451
Location: Boston, Shanghai
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Aug 29, 2008 - 07:04 PM |
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Bohica, while I appreciate your rationale and reasoning for laying out good arguments, I think you failed to see the connection between the media and public opinion. It's obvious and it's not just about China. For instance, American politics and medias are like a bad marriage, they hate each other but can't live without one another. It's almost like the media sometimes run the country by influencing public opinion. Back to the China issue, the fear and frustration from American public are aided by the media. It's almost like adding fuel to fire. Once again, I don't have problem with factual news reporting. But linking China to Nazi, etc. is so f-king outrageous. Cheapshots like this are just too many in the Western media. I wrote a lot of letters to Journlists and journalism professors and asked them this question - should there be conscience in journalism and free media? Distorted reports/smear champaign do produce hatred and fear. Only if each one of us won't be effect then I don't give it a f-k. Unfortunately everyone of us is affected and if you were Chinese in the States, you would be affected even more. In a way, I am so glad the Olympics is over because at least the negativity and biased reporting don't have a direct target anymore.
| Bohica wrote: |
| gilroy wrote: |
| Bohica wrote: |
| The fear comes more from populist rhetoric from politicians than media. I (IMHO) believe there is reason for the fear if you are in the unskilled and under-educated portion of the population. |
I am almost convinced by you Bohica, except a few more questions. Which year (or what event) you think symbolizes the rise of China, and what view on China did Americans have before that year/event. What did the media do when the politicians preached the populist rhetoric? Did they repeat the rhetoric? |
Remember that even though China has grown very fast over the past 30 years, it is still less than 1/2 the size of the US in gross domestic product (if you don't include HK and Taiwan). Imagine 30 years ago when the growth started. I'm not going to look up exact figures, but China'a GDP for the early portion of that 30 year period would have been pretty insignificant and not very threatening.
The US GDP today is approx 14 trillion. At 3% growth, it adds $420 billion per year to it's economy. China, at 4 trillion would have to grow 10% to have the same level of growth in real terms. And it is happening .
So in short, I think the fear has accelerated over the years, and the rhetoric has accelerated over the years. Bush Sr. was positive about China because he understood it. Clinton turned populist in rhetoric but did a lot of positive things. And let's face, even most honest conservatives would have to give the current Bush regime a failing grade.
I am not by any means a fan of the media but I believe it's pretty balanced. It's just like living here. If you want to focus on the negative side (George) a lot of westerners will leave here tomorrow or focus on the positive side and feel fortunate to see the magnificent change at a rate probably unimagined 20 years ago. |
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georgeshen
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Joined: Apr 30, 2006
Posts: 451
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Aug 29, 2008 - 07:17 PM |
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| Most of the people I know in the states (family included) listen to the nonsense that comes out of Washington everyday and they feel fear. I don't think (as George does) that most people just hate for no reason. |
Did I say people just hate for no reason? Where and when did I say it? I argued the opposite - people hate from what they know, which is fed by the media. Why you only single out the fearmongering politicans? The media is equally guilty. The danger of feeding crap and hatred to public is that peole are so brainwashed and they don't even know it.
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Aruably, no country in the world has benefitted more from China's rise than America. The flow of low cost goods has kept inflation in check for over 20 years. I have never heard a politician say that, they just say you lost your job because somebody in China or india will do it cheaper. |
That is your view and I agree. But there are many people here would totally think you are a "free trade" fanatic. The other side of the arguments are also overwhelming - job loss because of trade inbalance. Are you willing to lose your job in order to afford cheap goods? Afterall, you could have lost your paycheck before you can even afford the stuff which hc calls shiit. |
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hc
Post Roaster
Joined: Apr 04, 2007
Posts: 4545
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Aug 29, 2008 - 07:46 PM |
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Chingis
Reacher
Joined: Oct 02, 2005
Posts: 346
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Aug 29, 2008 - 07:59 PM |
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So now you're soooo badly affected? Are you the same Georgie Porgie who not so long ago said he was "thriving like a weed"?
And there is no hypocrisy in buying cheap Chinese shiit, the hypocrisy comes from complaining about it |
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georgeshen
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Joined: Apr 30, 2006
Posts: 451
Location: Boston, Shanghai
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Aug 29, 2008 - 10:00 PM |
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| hc wrote: |
| Anyway, Georgie, have a nice life, and by all means, next time you come back to China, I just hope you are so vocal and critical about the regime as you are about the US. |
hc, I was a vocal critic of the Chinese gov when in college. Still am and still will be. Maybe you should join Shen's family conference call every Sunday morning where we bash the Chinese gov on regular basis, then you will get a more balanced view on this topic. My father who is a school teacher is even more vacal than me. Hard to believe, right? How come the brainwashed Chinese complain furiously about their gov? And I don't even need to be Shanghai to be critical on the regime, I can do it everywhere thanks to the internet. by calling me han traitor, you sided with some of "patriotic" Chinese netizens and communist loyalists. This is unfortunate.
I "battle" here for the betterment of my kids' life. I "battle" there over the internet for the betterment of my parents' life. Is it Okay with you? Have a nice life too! |
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Kiwi
Post Boaster
Joined: May 07, 2003
Posts: 4763
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Aug 29, 2008 - 10:09 PM |
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| georgeshen wrote: |
| I don't have problem with factual news reporting. But linking China to Nazi, etc. is so f-king outrageous. |
But I've seen Bush likened to a Nazi, and Putin, and Europe (esp. in US media), and even Taiwan. . . anti-democratic Chinese media are hugely fond of calling Chen Shuibian a 'Hitler' - the basic premise being that despite being democratically elected he was plotting against his own electorate and threatening regional peace.
So outrageous it may be but China is not the only victim. This stuff is prevalent, and China is no stranger to dishing it out. |
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genghis
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Aug 30, 2008 - 12:34 AM |
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2 cents, and I love to play devil's advocate and forum debate fun.
First off, I think China is so obsessed with it's OWN self image of being "the weakling of the east" or whatever, that any slight towards China is amplified by a thousand by anyone who feels a tie to China, be it because of actually being Chinese, of Chinese decent, loving China, or having slept with Bai Ling.
Look, everyone around the world knows China is developing and has a strong economy right now. But wait! How do I know that? I hear it all the time from the MEDIA! Oh, those biased liars! Oh wait... That's not how it works... If something good is said in the media, they are being honest and truthful, but as soon as soon as something comes along (true or not) that the media says that doesn't show China in the holy basking light of perfection, well, quick, begin the attacks! Those lying bastards!
Look, there is no issue with biased media. The media in the west, especially in the US, doesn't care about China (or the US for that matter), global warming, Japanese tentacle porn or ANYTHING ELSE besides profits, profits, profits. They want ratings and ad sponsors.
Please, stop bitching about the western media "bias". If you want to bitch about something, bitch about how all real journalism has been removed from major media outlets in the west and now can only be found on the Internet.
Look, let me explain a few things here so everyone understands. "News Media" in the US and other western countries is the highest rated "reality show" on tv. That's it. Sometimes there is good commentary (and awful) and sometimes there is still some actual news reporting. But for the most part, it's about ratings.
You want to talk about "bias"? China should consider itself lucky that there wasn't a missing white girl during the Olympics, otherwise there would have been very little Olympic coverage on the news networks. Trust me, NOTHING IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN A BLOND WHITE GIRL THAT HAS GONE MISSING.
Ever see a slow news day on CNN or FOX News? Man, they will report on anything as long as it's not actual journalism. And the scarier, crappier, and more unbelievable the content is, the better. Is it national news or even world news worthy to discuss a stupid redneck that put a baby in a microwave oven?
My god, what a horrible thing, but with everything going on in the world is this HEADLINE NEWS?!?!
Hell no. But it gets ratings.
Look, news outlets saying things about China boils down to this (in America). Sh1t is pretty screwed up there right now, and right now, news outlets are getting ratings showing that sh1t is even more screwed up in other places. People like to know that even if things aren't the best, at least it's not as bad as somewhere else, and right now China is a great target for that. The economy is doing well, China just hosted the Olympics, etc. etc, so showing problems with a country that is doing relatively well does one important thing. It keeps people tuning in, and that means they can be exposed to more ads telling them that it's a good time to buy a Ford f-150, a Big Mac, or a Wachovia mutual fund.
Trust me, if the major media news outlets could find a way to say bad things about the moon that would increase viewership, they would do it in a heartbeat.
I hope that helps some of you out and gives you a better understanding of what the deal really is. Remember, we are talking about TV networks that make advanced 3D graphic intros that are better than small budget movies for a "news" piece about the dangers of MSG in snack food, or if someone finds a dead bird ("AVIAN FLU! EVERYBODY PANIC!!111)
A final note for China... Get used to it. As China becomes more intertwined with the rest of the world, and more of a player on the international scene, there will be MORE criticism and negative news. Grow some balls and deal with it . It's already getting old and honestly, it makes China seem like a bunch of pvssies. |
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