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Buzzd
PopStar
Joined: Jan 30, 2008
Posts: 1092
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Sep 04, 2008 - 10:53 PM |
 
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Extrapolating a very emotional, traumatic, and very personal family matter involving a 17 year old girl into a national debate on fitness to serve our country?
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I didn't put Bristol in the spotlight pal. Most likely a family decision. If Mom and Ski didn't realise what they'd be putting her through, their even dumber then I'd imagined. |
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Buzzd
PopStar
Joined: Jan 30, 2008
Posts: 1092
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Sep 04, 2008 - 11:04 PM |
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plato
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Heck...
JFK would never have passed through your very moralistic and myopic microscope.
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Throwing JFK into a discussion on Palin should be criminal. Laaaaaaaaaaaaame. Double or nothing? Bet you Marilyn Monroe had a higher IQ then Hockeymom's. |
Last edited by Buzzd on Sep 04, 2008 - 11:06 PM; edited 1 time in total |
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LifeMage
FooSlinger
Joined: Sep 30, 2005
Posts: 3937
Location: In the world...... but not of it.
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Sep 04, 2008 - 11:04 PM |
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How about Palin as a sympathetic and caring mother who, upon finding out that her unwed teenage daughter is pregnant ...supports her decision to keep the baby,even though the pregnancy itself goes against all the values she has ever tried to instill in her family.
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I thought the whole idea of pro-life, was that there is no decision to make....hence it's opposite being called...pro-choice.
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Buzzd
PopStar
Joined: Jan 30, 2008
Posts: 1092
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Sep 04, 2008 - 11:09 PM |
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^Assuming Bristol truly wanted to keep the baby. |
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njd
Lurker
Joined: Feb 28, 2008
Posts: 36
Location: Shanghai
Status: Offline
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Sep 04, 2008 - 11:18 PM |
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Great...I will try to be brief...
Lucar - Yes, I am aware of Operation Rescue, a pro-life organization that resorts to picketing and such outside abortion clinics (really that about sums it up, right?) Maybe I should have been more direct and that is why you didn't understand. Pro-life, a part of it, means they don't judge someone who is debating what she will do. If she has decided to have an abortion...well, feelings are a little different for SOME organizations. There are SOME out there that don't agree with it, think it should be illegal, but then offer education after she has had an abortion so she will have the opportunity as to not make the same mistake (getting pregnant) again if she feels as though she can't care for the child. As for your second post, I think P1at pretty much took care of it...Thanks P1at!
Buzzd - If you look at our original arguments, I tried to stress that I was only arguing the relevance of this nonsence in the presidential compaign. I think I have proven my point, and that there are much more relevant things to debate. I don't think this should even be brought up, but it has somehow become center stage even though Obama himself said to back off!
So as for your other points (remember me saying, in so many words, that I don't completely agree with her ideals), you are right. Some parents don't even talk about the forbidden sex in their homes. Mine being one of them, but I assure you (as a young lady - not that young, but young enough) they do teach this in our school's today so while Bristol's parents may have taught abstinence her teachers were teaching her about birth control...BOTH failed. Some good parents have children that make bad decisions and some bad parents have great children that are spot on...while statistically they outweigh one another, it is reality. I do sway towards pro-life (as you can prob guess), but for reasons you mention I am still on the fence. I cannot possibly imagine how you tell someone who has been raped that they have to have a child that was the result! What are the other consequences...unqualified "doctors" performing dangerous abortions?! I could go on and on...
On the other side, I have accompanied many (ok maybe 5, I would say many and know of many more) of my friends to these government financed places that "help" you and give you "information" - Help meaning that they give you the morning after pill or perform an abortion. They don't give you ANY information. They don't tell you the risks of either, give you info on the alternatives, volunteer any birth control for future use, or tell you the importance of avoiding the situation later down the road - atleast the two I have been to. Ofcourse, these young ladies could have listened to me as I did tell them, but others knowing what the result could be simply decided to use these methods as birth control...SICKENING.
The point is...there is a big problem with what we are doing today. Was it so bad in the 50's when we did preach abstinence? Different times I know, and exactly why I didn't want to get in this particular debate.
I don't have the right answer. I see huge problems on both sides of the fence, but ultimately I think that America has this "thing" about our citizen's not taking responsibility for our actions (Ok that was loaded, but hopefully we can keep it down to this particular topic), and it needs to stop! We need to be responsible for the decisions we make, and learn from them. Where was this lost?
I admittedly don't have the right answer...anyone?
BTW - 17 yr old do have to have their parents consent for an abortion and for reasons above and their obvious lack of judgement should stay that way. We can debate that all day long if want:-) |
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njd
Lurker
Joined: Feb 28, 2008
Posts: 36
Location: Shanghai
Status: Offline
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Sep 04, 2008 - 11:21 PM |
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Oh my...that took me a long time to write. We are already on page 3! Sorry my reply is so large for those of you that have been drinking tonight  |
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njd
Lurker
Joined: Feb 28, 2008
Posts: 36
Location: Shanghai
Status: Offline
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Sep 04, 2008 - 11:28 PM |
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Lifemage - I think he/she was trying to point out that Bristol made a mistake, and in true pro-life belief Sarah Palin is still supporting her even though she went against her beliefs...please correct me if I am wrong... |
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njd
Lurker
Joined: Feb 28, 2008
Posts: 36
Location: Shanghai
Status: Offline
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| Posted:
Sep 04, 2008 - 11:30 PM |
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| Buzzd wrote: |
| Quote: |
Extrapolating a very emotional, traumatic, and very personal family matter involving a 17 year old girl into a national debate on fitness to serve our country?
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I didn't put Bristol in the spotlight pal. Most likely a family decision. If Mom and Ski didn't realise what they'd be putting her through, their even dumber then I'd imagined. |
Maybe you haven't put her in that national spot light, but you have sure been doing a good job here. |
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p1atl10
Board Royalty
Joined: Mar 18, 2005
Posts: 6103
Location: Shanghai
Status: Online!
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Sep 04, 2008 - 11:30 PM |
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buzzd...
BTW
I am extremely pro-choice.....
I am just wondering when facts, objectivity, and actual platform discussions occur....instead of histrionic speculation and caterwauling....not necessarily by you, although you are making a pretty good run at it...but by the press.
It's a Democarcy... |
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p1atl10
Board Royalty
Joined: Mar 18, 2005
Posts: 6103
Location: Shanghai
Status: Online!
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Sep 04, 2008 - 11:31 PM |
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buzzd...
BTW
I am extremely pro-choice..... |
_________________
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njd
Lurker
Joined: Feb 28, 2008
Posts: 36
Location: Shanghai
Status: Offline
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Sep 04, 2008 - 11:43 PM |
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^That was the whole point of my conversation earlier. When do we and the media stop all of this ridiculous crap and start getting to the core of why we should elect these individuals as our leaders for the next four years!!!
Sadly, it seems as though these "issues" are more important?
On another note, why are bloggers now are considered official new sources for "credible" journalists to write stories about? |
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Buzzd
PopStar
Joined: Jan 30, 2008
Posts: 1092
Status: Offline
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Sep 04, 2008 - 11:45 PM |
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Nice post. Campaigns have turned into disgusting mud slings, but inspite of what I write in here, that's not my doing.
It's relevant in this circumstance however, because from what I've read, Palin's on record as saying she wants no spending for sex-ed in schools. With an attitude like that, I'm guessing that those clinics you mentioned will be even more understaffed and less funded, if allowed to continue operating at all.
While a wishful thought, abstinence in todays world is naive at best. Seeing's how until a couple of years ago Palin was living in a town of 7,000 people, and that McCain is apparently incapable of either keeping track of his homes or sending an email, I'd say that neither one of them is very near to life in the real world. |
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Buzzd
PopStar
Joined: Jan 30, 2008
Posts: 1092
Status: Offline
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Sep 04, 2008 - 11:50 PM |
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Can we all take a big hug? |
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LifeMage
FooSlinger
Joined: Sep 30, 2005
Posts: 3937
Location: In the world...... but not of it.
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Sep 04, 2008 - 11:57 PM |
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^use a condom!  |
_________________
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woaihuan
Veejay
Joined: Dec 15, 2007
Posts: 1823
Status: Offline
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Sep 05, 2008 - 12:08 AM |
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Yay for promoting 17 year olds getting married!
And... what else... hmm. I'm already married at 17, I consider her irresponsible. 
As a side note, I bet the plan to get married is a result of the political campaign. Who knows if they actually will once he wins or loses. |
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njd
Lurker
Joined: Feb 28, 2008
Posts: 36
Location: Shanghai
Status: Offline
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Sep 05, 2008 - 12:11 AM |
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Buzzd - To be honest, I was not a big fan in you earlier posts, but I think we have had good (and some relevant:-) ) debate as of late. Make no mistake, debating is debating...especially political, nothing personal. I just don't like the silly comments. They normally would prob be funny - especially since I still have no idea who I am voting for! I am honestly just sick of the media reporting not only irrelavent (damn I wish they had spell correct on this thing!) and unfactual things! Yes, I have visited both cand. websites and know what they stand for. What I hate about this crap is that they (both sides) never tell you how they are going to get it done. In the past, the media usually provided atleast a little bit of that for us. Different stations reported different things (depending if they were lib or consv), and you can base your decision on that. It seems that those days may be gone.
Am I delusional...maybe too young to remember these types of smear campaigns. I don't remember anything as bad as this. |
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njd
Lurker
Joined: Feb 28, 2008
Posts: 36
Location: Shanghai
Status: Offline
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Sep 05, 2008 - 12:14 AM |
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Life - Good point. How do you know she didn't...100% effective? |
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njd
Lurker
Joined: Feb 28, 2008
Posts: 36
Location: Shanghai
Status: Offline
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Sep 05, 2008 - 12:19 AM |
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My mother had my big sis when she was 17 and got married! Me, when she was 20. Best woman I know...and been married for 30+ yrs. The only couple I know of that age that can't keep their hands off of each other. It is pretty embarrassing when you are 16! It can't be all bad! |
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LifeMage
FooSlinger
Joined: Sep 30, 2005
Posts: 3937
Location: In the world...... but not of it.
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Sep 05, 2008 - 12:29 AM |
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It's a circus side show. You think it matters in the slightest whether McCain or Obama is elected? It's like debating whether to have a Coke or a Pepsi with your hamburger.
Amerikkkans are the densest people on the planet...surprised the continent hasn't sunk into the ocean by now......
but of course it's highly entertaining (in a "driving past a car accident" kind of way) |
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njd
Lurker
Joined: Feb 28, 2008
Posts: 36
Location: Shanghai
Status: Offline
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Sep 05, 2008 - 12:44 AM |
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^ For the life of me I don't know why we have to hear this time and time again? Where are you from Life?
If you have something valuable to add as a non-American with reasons I welcome you, even if it is bad. If you just want to add ridiculous comments without reason then no, we have no use for you. Give us something to go on here.
Whether you like it or not, it does matter. Maybe in the slightest bit, but it does. AND like it or not, when American economy as a hiccup the rest of the world has a hiccup! Yes, maybe a little conceded but true! Deal with it and give us your reasoning just not some useless derogatory anti-American bantor... |
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LifeMage
FooSlinger
Joined: Sep 30, 2005
Posts: 3937
Location: In the world...... but not of it.
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Sep 05, 2008 - 02:19 AM |
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| njd wrote: |
| ^ For the life of me I don't know why we have to hear this time and time again? |
Ummm!?....maybe because your Government (in your name and with your tax dollars) will fvkc, is fvkcing and has fvkced the entire planet in the azz?
You are probably one of those ignoramuses that asked, "why do they hate us?" post 9/11, right?
Anyways...maybe we can start a new thread about why the world hates Amerikkka, why Amerikkkans are too dense to understand why and why a new president will make no difference at all. |
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UndrUrSkin
Raver
Joined: Aug 26, 2008
Posts: 425
Location: between your sandy cheeks and crab-filled pineapple
Status: Offline
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Sep 05, 2008 - 02:39 AM |
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First Draft of Democratic National Convention:
7:00 P.M. - Opening flag burning.
7:15 P.M. - Pledge of allegiance to U.N.
7:30 P.M. - Ted Kennedy proposes a toast
7:30 P.M. - Nonreligious prayer and worship. Jessie Jackson and Al Sharpton
8:00 P.M. - Ted Kennedy proposes a toast.
8:05 P.M. - Ceremonial tree hugging.
8:15 P.M. - Gay Wedding (Barney Frank presiding).
8:30 P.M. - Ted Kennedy proposes a toast.
8:35 P.M. - Free Saddam Rally. (Cindy Sheehan and Susan Sarandon).
9:00 P.M. - Keynote speech.
The proper etiquette for surrender (former French President Jacques Chirac)
9:15 P.M. - Ted Kennedy proposes a toast.
9:20 P.M. - Collection to benefit Osama Bin Laden kidney transplant fund.
9:30 P.M. - Unveiling of plan to free freedom fighters from Guantanamo Bay. (Sean Penn)
9:40 P.M. - Why I hate the Military, A short talk by William Jefferson
Clinton.
9:45 P.M. - Ted Kennedy proposes a toast
9:50 P.M. - Dan Rather presented Truth in Broadcasting award, presented by Michael Moore.
9:55 P.M. - Ted Kennedy proposes a toast
10:00 P.M. - How George Bush and Donald Rumsfeld brought down the World Trade Center Towers (Howard Dean and Hugo Chavez)
10:30 P.M. - Nomination of Hillary Rodham Clinton by Mahmud Ahmadinejad
11:00 P.M. - Ted Kennedy proposes a toast
11:05 P.M. - Al Gore reinvents Internet
11:15 P.M. - Our Troops are War criminals (John Kerry)
11:30 P.M. - Coronation Of Mrs. Hillary Rodham Clinton
12:00 A.M. - Ted Kennedy proposes a toast
12:05 A.M. - Bill asks a drunken Ted to drive Hillary home
12:06 A.M. - Bill phones up the babe from AK to see if interested in a mother-daughter threesome. |
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georgeshen
Raver
Joined: Apr 30, 2006
Posts: 451
Location: Boston, Shanghai
Status: Offline
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Sep 05, 2008 - 04:08 AM |
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| p1atl10 wrote: |
| I am extremely pro-choice..... |
not that i want to disagree with you. but the other side will counter with this argument - ONLY IF the unborn could choose...... |
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lucar
Board Royalty
Joined: July 05, 2004
Posts: 6262
Status: Offline
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| Posted:
Sep 05, 2008 - 05:27 AM |
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Lucar - Yes, I am aware of Operation Rescue, a pro-life organization that resorts to picketing and such outside abortion clinics (really that about sums it up, right?) Maybe I should have been more direct and that is why you didn't understand. Pro-life, a part of it, means they don't judge someone who is debating what she will do. If she has decided to have an abortion...well, feelings are a little different for SOME organizations. There are SOME out there that don't agree with it, think it should be illegal, but then offer education after she has had an abortion so she will have the opportunity as to not make the same mistake (getting pregnant) again if she feels as though she can't care for the child. As for your second post, I think P1at pretty much took care of it...Thanks P1at!
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^How can you say that Pro-"life"ers are not judging a woman who is debating whether or not to have an abortion. Pro-lifers want to make abortion illegal. So, anyone having an abortion is judged as a criminal. What am I missing?
And Plat's argument about not being able to control a 17 year old doesn't mean that birth control alternatives OTHER than abstinence shouldn't be discussed? Because 17 year olds are difficult to control is PRECISELY the reason that alternatives to abstinence should be discussed and encouraged.
Now for a little rant...
I am just sick and tired of seeing the GOP attack excellence and intellect as something evil and wrong. What is this fear of the elite? Don't we want our elected officials to be the best ones of us? I guess many people want to vote for someone who won't challenge their ideas, and who they feel they could invite over for a BBQ or something. To be honest, no matter what Palin and that daughter of hers does, people will find it "real" and "heartfelt" and "sincere" and it will just make her more popular.
Another little rant...
What a sad day when Walmart, The Olive Garden and Applebee's are our standards… |
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georgeshen
Raver
Joined: Apr 30, 2006
Posts: 451
Location: Boston, Shanghai
Status: Offline
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Sep 05, 2008 - 05:38 AM |
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| lucar wrote: |
| I am just sick and tired of seeing the GOP attack excellence and intellect as something evil and wrong. What is this fear of the elite? Don't we want our elected officials to be the best ones of us? I guess many people want to vote for someone who won't challenge their ideas, and who they feel they could invite over for a BBQ or something. |
Right on this one, Lucar. Many voters are attracted to a leader like themselves (hockey mom, soccer mom with dysfunctional family and modest IQ), forgetting that they themselves would make a terrible president or vice-president. So much for the voters' intelligence.
I think if McSame and Obama are neck to neck or maybe even Obama leads by a slim margin in the poll heading into the election day, Obama is going to lose in the end. Why? Because too many racists won't admit they are and won't say whom they are going to vote for before election. I think many of them are hiding in the "undecided voter" block. |
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Last edited by georgeshen on Sep 05, 2008 - 05:57 AM; edited 1 time in total |
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