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Please help! Business school graduate looking for a job

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wenbo

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Joined: Nov 17, 2008
Posts: 10

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Posted: Nov 17, 2008 - 07:01 AM
Post subject: Please help! Business school graduate looking for a job

Hi everyone, sorry to ask the same question you've all seen a million times, but I think my situation is somewhat unique and would greatly appreciate any advice/opinion on the job search process in Shanghai.

A little bit about myself, I am a 21-year-old U.S. citizen about to graduate from the business school at the University of Michigan. I did my internship last summer at Macquarie (investment banking) in New York City. But before that, I spent 3 weeks visiting SH with a friend and really fell in love with the people and the city. That is why I really desire to find a job in SH.

I think my situation is unique because I speak both English and Mandarin at the native level, which I've never seen on campus despite the diverse student population here. However, my reading/writing skills with Chinese is a bit worse, since I rarely use the characters. In terms of my studies, my focus is finance, and although I don't have much experience in the industry, I'm completely comfortable working with numbers and modeling on excel.

I'd prefer to find a business analyst job in SH and I've done a bit of searching myself, through zhaopin, chinahr, etc. But so far have been unsuccessful. I know work experience is crucial for finding a decent job, but I really would like to start my career in SH if it's at all possible. In any case, I'm going to SH again in February, and I was wondering if you guys have any advice/opinions on a couple of things:

- How likely is it for me to find a full-time finance position with a solid academic background, good language skills/understanding of culture, but little experience?

- If not full-time, are internships/temporary positions widely available for post-graduates? If I can find one of these, in general, is it likely I'll be asked to stick around for full-time if I do a good job?

- Are there recruitment agencies that specialize in finding positions for fresh graduates? I've only seen ones for executives

yu888
Board Deity

Joined: Jan 25, 2003
Posts: 19241
Location: ZhongShanParkArea SH

Posted: Nov 17, 2008 - 08:00 AM

Sorry for the bad news but:

1) While I commend you on yoru language levels, you are not unique. But don't let that stop you.

2) Most new positions in China now require 2 years of post graduate relevant work expereince, so I would start cracking i that first. Otherewise it may be difficult for the local company in China to get a permit to hire a foreigner.

3) Unpaid internships may be a possibility if you can invest the time and opportunity cost of a year of doing that while searching for alternatives here.

4) 30% plus of new grads here in China do not find jobs. The system here will be biased towards finding them jobs first so...

Good luck.

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shanghaie1

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Joined: Nov 17, 2008
Posts: 3

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Posted: Nov 17, 2008 - 08:18 AM

There will be some special recrutment events held in shanghai during the summer especially for graduates. you shall keep an eye on that. it'll be packed. but you have advantage.

Good luck.

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MVAgusta

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Joined: Nov 04, 2008
Posts: 66
Location: Shanghai
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Posted: Nov 17, 2008 - 08:49 AM

Wenbo,

Do you have other work experiences other than your internship last summer? Are you looking for an expat package?

DesertSpider
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Joined: Jan 19, 2007
Posts: 4725
Location: SHANGHAI, CHINA

Posted: Nov 17, 2008 - 09:37 AM

A LOT of MNC's want to hire 'international' employees or people that will 'reverse immigrate' to their country of nationality... so, if you are willing to be a foreigner on a local benefits package there might be some definitive opportunities for you.

laohu489

Seeker

Joined: Oct 09, 2007
Posts: 47
Location: Shanghai
Status: Offline

Posted: Nov 17, 2008 - 10:24 AM

The market for finding jobs is bad now. The Olympics, visa's, summer, recession, have made employers slow down their employing. Prolly gonna pick up again after CNY. Might want to stay in the US till then and work more on finding a job, save some money.

Good luck.

Bradd_Pwit

Seeker

Joined: Oct 26, 2006
Posts: 68

Status: Offline

Posted: Nov 17, 2008 - 10:28 AM

Read on..

The latest data shows that China's output has fallen to a seven year low. The forecast for China's economic growth has been revised downwards to between 9.5% to 10% this year and 8.8% to 9.3% in 2009 — news that makes you go awwwww shucks we know, but economists are saying the reduction of even 1% in economic growth in China will have a massive impact and we're getting a glimpse of that right now. Even the ayi at our local All Days convenience store has been lamenting over poor sales, believe it or not. All across Guangdong province and elsewhere, factories are shuttering down and people are getting laid off. Jobs are a lot harder to come by and consumer sentiment is down.

tdotspartans

Talker

Joined: Mar 25, 2004
Posts: 75

Status: Offline

Posted: Nov 17, 2008 - 10:41 AM

Definitely not unique. Plus, U of Mich grads are not in high demand. It's all about the Spartans in Shanghai.

yu888 wrote:

wenbo

Squeeker

Joined: Nov 17, 2008
Posts: 10

Status: Offline

Posted: Nov 17, 2008 - 10:46 AM

Thanks you guys for taking the time to respond. At the risk of sounding arrogant, I am fully aware of the macroeconomic conditions, and I know looking for a finance job in SH with a bachelors will not be easy, but I'm not looking for a job that pays USD100k and live in luxury, otherwise I'd stay in the US and continue with i-banking. In fact, I just really like SH and think it's a great place to be, and if I can find a decent position and cover my expenses, everything else would be a bonus. No offense, but telling me that the slowed GDP growth adversely affects the local economy isn't all that helpful.

Anyways , I just have a few follow up questions:

shanghaie1: is there a good way to check up on when/where the recruitment events will take place? will they be posted here?

MVAgusta: in terms of financial services experience, I only have my internship. What is an expat package? Currently, I am just looking for a full-time finance related position.

DesertSpider: To clarify, are these MNC's looking for people to "reverse immigrate" to China (SH) or USA? I was born in China but recently became a US citizen, so I'm not clear on your definition for country of nationality (or I guess what you think my nationality is). Also, is there a good way to look for these positions in MNCs? From the common zhaopin and job posting sites I haven't come across anything like those. Just about everything I've seen requires 3-5 years of work experience.

Thank you all so much!

p1atl10

Shanghai Royalty

Joined: Mar 18, 2005
Posts: 8585
Location: Shanghai
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Posted: Nov 17, 2008 - 11:28 AM

Quote:

Just about everything I've seen requires 3-5 years of work experience.

Bingo!

Sorry to be negative, but you are not special...

There are literally thousands of Chinese MBA's graduating here every year who speak excellent English.

At an entry level....we would hire them.
Dime a dozen, understand the culture, have "local" salary expectations, fit in immediately with the team....and in an MNC like mine, which is under orders to develop "local talent"....fit the bill.

And are much lower maintainence than a laowai. No Visa, Work Permit, hassles... Whether you were born in China or not...you are not a "local"

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MVAgusta

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Posted: Nov 17, 2008 - 01:12 PM

p1atl10 wrote:

Quote:

Just about everything I've seen requires 3-5 years of work experience.

Quote:

MVAgusta: in terms of financial services experience, I only have my internship. What is an expat package? Currently, I am just looking for a full-time finance related position.

This is a tough crowd.

Expat package are extras that companies pay for non locals to entice them to locations around the world and they vary, from housing allowance, car, bonus, etc. But based on your experience level, you will be a local hire, so no package. My opinion is that you would have a slight leg up with your U of Michigan MBA, but your lack of work experience puts you on par with a good local undergraduate (which beats a so-so local MBAs any day). Send me your resume and I can take a look.

p1atl10

Shanghai Royalty

Joined: Mar 18, 2005
Posts: 8585
Location: Shanghai
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Posted: Nov 17, 2008 - 02:17 PM

Quote:

But based on your experience level, you will be a local hire, so no package

Except for that US Passport thingy....Work Permits are not free...

Nor is the hassle of US and China taxes.

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Yishi

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Joined: Nov 08, 2007
Posts: 232

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Posted: Nov 17, 2008 - 04:43 PM

Why China? You should consider Africa or other Asian countries like Vietnam or Cambodia.

wenbo

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Joined: Nov 17, 2008
Posts: 10

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Posted: Nov 18, 2008 - 04:43 AM

Sorry I wasn't clear on business school, I have a BBA (undergraduate) not anMBA, that's why I only have internship experience. I guess this doesn't help my case much -_-

Yishi: I'm just more interested in China, it's a purely emotional thing. I can try to explain it rationally, but differences in opinion are difficult to reconcile, IMO Very Happy

underh20
Board Legend

Joined: Sep 27, 2006
Posts: 12702
Location: Veggie-Free Zone

Posted: Nov 18, 2008 - 09:10 AM

BBA? Even worse.

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Cambronne

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Joined: Feb 23, 2008
Posts: 3552

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Posted: Nov 18, 2008 - 01:55 PM

Comments are too negative here. This is a local guy who has studied in the US and for some reason became a US citizen. In his situation, will be competing with local grads and other who did like him, went to study abroad. He will certainly be a strong contender for entry-level positions in his target market! We are talking about local jobs here of course, at local salary levels, of course.

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underh20
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Joined: Sep 27, 2006
Posts: 12702
Location: Veggie-Free Zone

Posted: Nov 18, 2008 - 02:02 PM

Cambronne wrote:

No, he will not be a strong contender. He will be a loser.

First of all, he has to get a work permit / residence permit. Although for most people this would be obvious, FL seems to think China has some critical shortage of people with a common bacherlors degree from 2-bit universities.

Let's assume that there is a job for this person and he meets the requirements for a work permit (which he most certainly doesn't), there are scores of Chinese citizens with overseas masters degrees returning to China every day. These people often get jobs that would otherwise be given to Chinese university graduates with a bachelors degree.

FL, stick to something you have a certain level of expertise in: precisely pouring milk over a bowl of cold cereal.

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p1atl10

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Joined: Mar 18, 2005
Posts: 8585
Location: Shanghai
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Posted: Nov 18, 2008 - 03:10 PM

Although I may have phrased it a bit differently...under is correct.

Unless the OP decides to give up his US Citizenship, I can hire a local Masters Graduate, with perfect English, for far less than it would cost to deal with the OP for his salary and his work permit issues. The US tax thing would be a non issue, as his salary would certainly be less than the current $87,5000 level.

But he would have to pay his Chinese tax....which would be much higher than a locals. And his salary would be the same as a local. He loses....

I am not trying to be negative. Just objective and honest.

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underh20
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Joined: Sep 27, 2006
Posts: 12702
Location: Veggie-Free Zone

Posted: Nov 18, 2008 - 03:31 PM

p1atl10 wrote:

Every year this time we are going through our local G-Staff recruitment scheme where we try to be a good corporate citizen and hire as many new college graduates as we can. Out of over 50,000 applicants, we're darned lucky to find 10 that we'd like to hire.

I wish I could post some of the resumes we get as a heck of a lot of them would put OP to shame. So why would we hire him? What does he bring to the table that isn't available in abundance already with a local hire?

There's then the pesky little issue of it being practically impossible to justify hiring a non-Chinese citizen like him with such poor qualifications for just about any position. Even assuming we could justify him, there's the issue of two years of relevant work experience post degree before the PSB will be willing to issue him a residence permit.

The best thing he could do is continue studying, get a real degree in a decent in-demand area, get some work experience and then think about working here.

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yupitssean
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Joined: June 03, 2008
Posts: 214

Posted: Nov 19, 2008 - 11:50 AM
Post subject: Re: Please help! Business school graduate looking for a job

wenbo wrote:

I think my situation is unique because I speak both English and Mandarin at the native level, which I've never seen on campus despite the diverse student population here. However, my reading/writing skills with Chinese is a bit worse, since I rarely use the characters. In terms of my studies, my focus is finance, and although I don't have much experience in the industry, I'm completely comfortable working with numbers and modeling on excel.

Unfortunately, I agree with everything that has already been mentioned. Speaking fluent English and Mandarin may be unique in the U.S. but in China almost EVERY fresh graduate from local universities can speak fluent enough to warrant entry-level positions at international companies... without having to deal with work permit and tax issues. You need develop yourself to a point where the benefits (what they're getting) outweigh the costs for any company to hire you.

One way to do that is find a company to sponsor you for an unpaid internship, where you can bust your ass and prove your worth there. Easier said than done though especially in today's current stagnant market. Having connections will help. Second way which is the slow & steady route is to find a job at a company in the U.S., work at least two to three years to build your expertise and worth, then transfer internally to their Shanghai office. While this takes a bit more upfront career planning it normally is a win-win situation for both you and the company especially if you're an all-star. Good luck!