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phiota
Rocker
Joined: Nov 01, 2005
Posts: 680
Status: Offline
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Jan 29, 2009 - 02:47 AM |
 
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I think that as each generation become wealthier their job/management skills also advance. The opposite sadly to say is also true. I think china as opposed to many other places just started off at the lowest rung because of the cultural revolution. The reason many western companies are still here is because $1 = 6.8 RMB not $1 = $1 RMB so they still think getting good value. |
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Shangstar
Fire-eater
Joined: Feb 07, 2008
Posts: 2786
Location: Spitland
Status: Offline
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Jan 29, 2009 - 08:42 AM |
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"The reason many western companies are still here is because $1 = 6.8 RMB not $1 = $1 RMB so they still think getting good value."
errr no.
That's like saying $1=90 Yen, which must mean Japan is 13 times cheaper than China. |
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Charles Darwin: Differences between humans are differences in degree, not differences in kind |
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helloasia
Talker
Joined: Mar 15, 2008
Posts: 120
Status: Offline
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Jan 29, 2009 - 09:06 AM |
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I think he means 1 USD = 1 RMB. That would be like saying 1 USD = 1 Yen.
HOwever cost of living has gone up significantly for people and businesses in China to the point that going to a restaurant or renting space (esp. in Shanghai) may not be that different from some areas in the US even after taking exchange rate differences into account. |
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ABCinChina
Reacher
Joined: Oct 19, 2008
Posts: 370
Status: Offline
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Jan 29, 2009 - 10:56 AM |
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All expats and local workers at my company got a 20% pay cut. But on the bright side, we get extra vacation days and get to choose 4 extra days of vacation per month. |
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Abramis
Barker
Joined: Mar 18, 2008
Posts: 178
Status: Offline
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Jan 29, 2009 - 11:48 AM |
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We are hiring more locals, as 2009 will be another year of double digit turnover growth. Expat positions are already very limited, only few are needed to steer our operation (& kick ass when needed).
Have seen & heard people leaving. That's normal. And gradually many qualified "expats" are likely willing to work with smaller package. I.e. expat contract may well end up being well paid local contract. |
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DesertSpider
Post Boaster
Joined: Jan 19, 2007
Posts: 4725
Location: SHANGHAI, CHINA
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Jan 29, 2009 - 12:04 PM |
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Companies will learn the hard way, as sometimes it is the only language (motivation) they understand.
People dictating armchair policies and directives from 8000+ miles away will do nothing except derail the train at a higher future cost. |
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LoveBoxStorage
Reacher
Joined: Sep 25, 2008
Posts: 364
Location: Shanghai
Status: Offline
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Jan 29, 2009 - 12:13 PM |
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^ Yes, but it's an equally bad idea to give the local manager unfettered decision making authority. Too many MNCs have gotten screwed because they hired some guy locally (local, returnee, even expat) who says "Look, you don't understand China. I do. Just let me run things the 'China way.'" |
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foreverinchina
SuperStar
Joined: Nov 21, 2005
Posts: 1509
Location: 徐家汇
Status: Offline
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Jan 29, 2009 - 01:25 PM |
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| LoveBoxStorage wrote: |
| ^ Yes, but it's an equally bad idea to give the local manager unfettered decision making authority. Too many MNCs have gotten screwed because they hired some guy locally (local, returnee, even expat) who says "Look, you don't understand China. I do. Just let me run things the 'China way.'" |
Can you elaborate that ?
What exactly do you want to say ?
I think some China experience or cultural flexibility is often more valuable than pure technical professional knowledge to survive on the long term in China. |
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DesertSpider
Post Boaster
Joined: Jan 19, 2007
Posts: 4725
Location: SHANGHAI, CHINA
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Jan 29, 2009 - 01:36 PM |
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| LoveBoxStorage wrote: |
| ^ Yes, but it's an equally bad idea to give the local manager unfettered decision making authority. Too many MNCs have gotten screwed because they hired some guy locally (local, returnee, even expat) who says "Look, you don't understand China. I do. Just let me run things the 'China way.'" |
Couldn't agree more. |
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LoveBoxStorage
Reacher
Joined: Sep 25, 2008
Posts: 364
Location: Shanghai
Status: Offline
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Jan 29, 2009 - 02:33 PM |
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| foreverinchina wrote: |
| LoveBoxStorage wrote: |
| ^ Yes, but it's an equally bad idea to give the local manager unfettered decision making authority. Too many MNCs have gotten screwed because they hired some guy locally (local, returnee, even expat) who says "Look, you don't understand China. I do. Just let me run things the 'China way.'" |
Can you elaborate that ?
What exactly do you want to say ?
I think some China experience or cultural flexibility is often more valuable than pure technical professional knowledge to survive on the long term in China. |
The truth is that both are needed. It's problematic when companies endlessly cycle expat managers through 2-year postings; this practice ensures that just when the manager starts to figure some things out, he gets sent back.
This is one of the big reasons why China is much harder than many MNC's initially anticipate. They need someone with a good deal of authority (if not in charge) who understands the company's culture, and will implement it. Solid technical skills are also important to ensure things are done right and provide training to employees. But, the expat has to work closely with someone (possibly also an expat) who understands the mentalities of the employees, government people, customers, etc.
Having two such managers work together is often difficult, but it's a relationship that needs to work in order for the whole operation to work. The expat should also be prepared for a longer-term assignment (say 5-years), so as to avoid the revolving door problem.
Again, there's no silver bullet - but definitely best not to hand over the reins to a "China guy" who hasn't been with the company. |
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Zak101
SuperStar
Joined: Jan 20, 2003
Posts: 1410
Location: 苏州 Suzhou
Status: Online!
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Jan 29, 2009 - 03:08 PM |
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On Topic, Hmmm Expats leaving SH eh ?
I'm personally aware of a Korean Senior Electronics Engineer dismissed with 4 days notice from Suzhou - the "safe haven", and they went back on Sunday.
Called up a removal company, packed their bongos and books, ordered plane tickets and whoosh, they were gone "like that" from the 18th floor.
Nary a time for a mutual goodbye dinner, they were out of China like a finger snap.
It's just the start.
Z. |
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stinky streets
Lurker
Joined: July 17, 2008
Posts: 29
Location: shanghai,nanjing
Status: Offline
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Jan 29, 2009 - 07:48 PM |
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I only just got here with the family.It was touch and go for me to come out.Yet the company suggest it needs that skill set here to keep moving forward.
As it cannot get that from locals.
Yet I do know it is reviewing monthly performances and sales figures that will give he ultimate decisions.Only 1 expat has gone home ( with a job) whilst we have 5 others here.
But within my sector I know of 8 families gone/going and 4 without jobs.
Not much is safe anymore,do what you do best ,if the tap on the shoulder comes be prepared yet have a back up plan,like we do. |
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