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Schnickle
Barker
Joined: Mar 26, 2004
Posts: 168
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Apr 12, 2004 - 01:08 PM |
 
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You're so whitetrash Jerry Springer would be afraid to have you on his show |
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dyniquee
Post Boaster
Joined: Apr 24, 2003
Posts: 4777
Location: Shanghai
Status: Offline
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Apr 12, 2004 - 01:27 PM |
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Good job! Super well-done!!! present more Chinese modern culture to uncle Fidel Sch...
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| You're so whitetrash Jerry Springer would be afraid to have you on his show |
Cooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooool
D |
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dyniquee
Post Boaster
Joined: Apr 24, 2003
Posts: 4777
Location: Shanghai
Status: Offline
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Apr 12, 2004 - 01:28 PM |
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dont you know by asking such question in such way is Utter INSULT to a culture, and people of that culture??? jeeeeeeez!
D |
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littlefox
Fire-eater
Joined: Nov 23, 2003
Posts: 2773
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Apr 12, 2004 - 01:33 PM |
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Schnickle, you have all my credits! Cool man.
Fidel, mind you clarify what's modern british culture first ok?
As regarding the culture habits
1) Spitting (known long as an old habit, not new, me, my friend, and other Chinese people I met don't spit on the streets)
2) Dressing like idiots (as far as I know, the foreigners are known of their casual dress, which sometimes LMAO, or let's say we have different taste on that?)
3) White tiled architecture ( take a look at Fuxing Lu, please)
4) Faked other people's products (me huge fan of fake products, especially pirated DVD and cds, Fidel always buys authentic products?) |
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Nick-la
Wonder Wit
Joined: July 19, 2003
Posts: 3675
Location: Wasted on this site
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Apr 12, 2004 - 01:58 PM |
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It is to fully expected, that you would meet nothing but denial and criticism for raising a question about China.
One of my Chinese friends denied until he was blue in the face that China, the gov and people, do not deny anything. He didnt get it.
But "Fidel can and does buy the real thing" Saying that you 'can' bu the real dvds for about 12.5RMB instead of the faks for 7-8 is not that cool. And youll get no selection here in the shops. And only a pure idiot would pay UK prices of 200RMB plus for new dvds when he can get them here.
Anyway, back to this......
I think modern culture is defined by the development....... But I cant think of anything iconic.....
Incidentally the architecture here is (can be) a million times better than the UK, but then it depends if we are discussing who designed it or where it is.......... Most of the worlds top (mainly graphic) designers are European, and they all recently came to Shanghai for a conference last weekend, I can find out what they think if you want...... |
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littlefox
Fire-eater
Joined: Nov 23, 2003
Posts: 2773
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Apr 12, 2004 - 02:07 PM |
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architect is just a limited part in Culture. There are a number of foreign style architectures around the town, but we all know why they are here. Do more research on the local schools and residential area, I guess fidel's taste is too high to cover that. At the moment, China is still under construction, well yes, I can't say we are producing a lot of impressive modern architectures, and also I don't know a lot about this, but we will see. |
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dyniquee
Post Boaster
Joined: Apr 24, 2003
Posts: 4777
Location: Shanghai
Status: Offline
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Apr 12, 2004 - 02:15 PM |
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Can I give a list in Chinese here??!! dang too much work to look up/research those weird words and phrases culture wise...
D |
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Schnickle
Barker
Joined: Mar 26, 2004
Posts: 168
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Apr 12, 2004 - 02:16 PM |
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Geezus christ there is no valid answer that can or should be posted in some forum, the study of modernity is almost field onto itself. You couple that with China's cultural history, political history, and economic development since 1978 and you have yourself a book's worth of an answer. And Fidel if you only want to look at the negative aspects of a culture then let's take a look at gay England:
1) Horrible yellow crooked teeth
2) Pale queer looking men
3) The most unsophisticated, disgusting cuisine in the entire world
If you can dish it you can take it right? |
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Schnickle
Barker
Joined: Mar 26, 2004
Posts: 168
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Apr 12, 2004 - 02:47 PM |
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You can post a question to get feedback from other people but do it with a little more sensitivity, you opened up with a logical valid question then proceeded to diss China and its people, I thought you were old, where the hell is your maturity. You open up with some insults and yea, of course you're going to get some back, as far as I'm concerned you never wanted to post a serious topic, you just wanted another excuse to vent out your frustration about China, and it's getting old. You should seriously round up the local dissident population and start a revolution. |
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baileysmilk
Ranter
Joined: Dec 23, 2002
Posts: 511
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Apr 12, 2004 - 03:11 PM |
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BM doesn't see Fidel's original post as an insult though, especially he said 'Maybe Fidel is missing something.' what can you expect from Mr. Fidel? 
I think we should make the following two points clear at least before discussion:
1. Culture is more than personal behavior or just architect(URE)
2. Shanghai doesn't fully represent China
Modern Chinese Culture is a combination of some inherited traditional Chinese culture and some foreign culture.(fei hua)
Festivals, traditions,especially those of minority groups are still fanscinating;traditional Chinese music is being plyaed and liked and some are presented in a more 'modern' way, like "twelve ladies?' ;western characteristics can be tracked in chinese architects' design...on stage, David Coperfield,Deep Purple and Clutch Thorn too..haha. Young Chinese are reading Confucius and Cat's Cradle at the same time and listenning to both Eminem and Chun Jiang Hua Yue Ye.. |
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dyniquee
Post Boaster
Joined: Apr 24, 2003
Posts: 4777
Location: Shanghai
Status: Offline
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Apr 12, 2004 - 03:22 PM |
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| Fidel wrote: |
Fidel stocks up on DVD's / CD's when he's in Hong Kong, Singapore or Tokyo because:
1) I hate buying a good film on fake DVD then it's all fuzzy at the end;
2) I don't like over-watching TV and buying fake DVD's encourages it, I have more interesting things to do;
3) I buy music I want to listen too not some sh*t a guy with a plastic hold-all thinks I might want. Never has so much crap music been passed off for RMB5 on unsuspecting punters. Most if what I want to listen to they don't have.
4) Because it is the right thing to do. Screw the pirates, they're not getting Fidel's money.
So Far: Modern Chinese Culture - difficult to find.
That is rather sad. 
The country is wasting itself.
Fidel |
Not sure why my post got deleted again!! Never mind -- just mine another two coins:
Modern Chinese Culture is NO where difficult to find - just it is difficult to find a good translation on Chinese culture from a neutrual perspectives - so far neither by Chinese nor Westerners.
The first-hand reading is an effective and important approach to culture things but Chinese now is just too weak and leg-behind that is deemed NOT a good worth to even just study Chinese as a language tool for a proper approach culture wise. Handful local employees that are able to communicate in their language, enough top-educated white ass kissers to spoil them, too many uneducated CR victimed "peasants" to entertain them and spoil their ego and superiority and stuck-ups...what else they could respect???
Fine. But I assume this as the same reasons of how Ancient Roman rose while Ancient Greek down?! and how USA rose while UK down?! China had been down for soooooooo looooooooong time and it is a PUNISHMENT that we asked for that long time ago...
Everything is in spirals - also how the small world progresses...
D |
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dyniquee
Post Boaster
Joined: Apr 24, 2003
Posts: 4777
Location: Shanghai
Status: Offline
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Apr 12, 2004 - 03:29 PM |
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Good that Fidel is not bashing Chinese as a shamless borrower from the Western - Rock thing.
Good that Fidel is not bashing Yao Ming's private part, again!
......
BM - shall I call you Fidel ass-kisser??!
heh heh wondering heh
D |
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dyniquee
Post Boaster
Joined: Apr 24, 2003
Posts: 4777
Location: Shanghai
Status: Offline
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Apr 12, 2004 - 03:30 PM |
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I am pissed off!
D |
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Entangled Quantum Effect's at its best. |
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Schnickle
Barker
Joined: Mar 26, 2004
Posts: 168
Status: Offline
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Apr 12, 2004 - 03:50 PM |
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Which modern culture are you asking about Fidel? China is a mix of thousands of minorities, each with their own unique culture. You'd have to separate the discussion into regions, provinces, districts, cities, townships, village whatever. However to answer your dumbass insults guised as a question China has basically two modern cultures, one that is urban and one that is rural. By urban I mean the coastal cities and other development zones like Chongqing, Chengdu, Wuhan etc and by rural I mean the inner provinces which has not yet been assaulted by the influx of both Western culture and investment capital. Let's take Shanghai as an example of this urban culture, what you see is essentially a mix of the East and West. While the foundation of this culture is still Chinese, there are aspects that are influenced by the West, architecture, technology, business, social practices based on Western standards etc. However these Western influences are mostly superficial, and are not yet deep rooted in the culture. You've seen how Chinese people celebrate Christmas, it's more of a novelty and an attempt to fit in with the world community. You can also look at Western influence on Chinese business culture, which is still superficial. Beneath the new "modern" organizational structure there still lies the dominant influence of confucianism and thousands of years of beauratic development. Basically in my opinion this modern Chinese urban culture is like an egg, a term we chinese americans use to label those white people who love China so much that they're yellow on the inside, like the famous Da Shan.
Rural culture is vastly more complex because this area encompasses the thousands of minorities that live outside of government control. Basically it's less influenced by the West than the development zones and maintains a cultural continuity unhampered by the turmoils of the 20th century. Of course there are exceptions, for example t¡bet and the Uighurs of Xinjiang province who have seen their cultures reshapened and suppressed by communist rule. |
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Benoist_Shanghai
Low Seater
Joined: May 18, 2003
Posts: 3057
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Apr 12, 2004 - 04:18 PM |
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Well, I dont care about how Fidel puts it, but Schnickle your post doesnt bring into light much about modern culture, does it ? I can guess that culture is not 1 single item 1 can spot on a shelf.
Apart from broad generalities, can anyone tell us a bit about Chinese modern culture ?
Culture being made, apart from the obvious artistic dimension (litterature, theater, painting, sculpture, dance, singing, cinema, architecture and so on), of all social, intellectual and religious manifestations, structures, trends.
Thx,
benoist. |
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slamca
Reacher
Joined: Apr 18, 2003
Posts: 318
Location: San Francisco, CA
Status: Offline
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Apr 12, 2004 - 04:36 PM |
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eom |
Last edited by slamca on Apr 12, 2004 - 04:46 PM; edited 1 time in total |
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slamca
Reacher
Joined: Apr 18, 2003
Posts: 318
Location: San Francisco, CA
Status: Offline
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Apr 12, 2004 - 04:41 PM |
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"some excellent designers, plus all our history, British fashion is sweeping Europe right now "Le style Anglais"....Alexander McQueen, Stella McCartney...all the classic tailoring... "
You've got to be **** joking... Brits don't know how to dress. I ve never heard of these designers. Compared to the French and the Italian, you limeys are always the amatuers.
I don't see any Modern Limey Culture on you either, Mr Fidel Castro Worshipper. Any Modern British Culture in any of your posts? None whatsoever. All I see is a frustrated over the prime limey old git venting his anger over being stuck teaching English in China. |
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Schnickle
Barker
Joined: Mar 26, 2004
Posts: 168
Status: Offline
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Apr 12, 2004 - 05:15 PM |
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Well Benoist that's what I was telling Fidel, what do you expect to see a forum post about something as complex as modernity other than broad generalizations? If you want to talk about art then that's a separate category, what is modern chinese art? Modern art in China is again a mix of the East and West, the current generation of artists in China are primarily focusing on applying Western methods of medium, composition and color to traditional painting archetypes from masters like Qi Baishi, Bada Shanren, and even some of the late 20th century masters like Li Keran and Wu Zuoren. You also have a small group of artists doing very progressive abstract art that not only breaks the old rules of Chinese painting tradition but sometimes mocking them. This group's most well know artist is Xu Bing, who is in Brooklyn right now, with his comical if not comercial transformations of traditional Chinese text. Last but not least there is the old guard, the group of artists who are maintaining the Chinese landscape painting tradition, while they might not be seen as progressive as some of their younger peers, their art is still the most expensive. Huang Yongyu is one such artist whose style is reminiscent of the late Qi Baishi in his bold use of continuous brush strokes in the depiction of nature, owls, birds, etc. So what you see in modern Chinese art is a struggle between the old guard and the new progressive movement, and interestingly the majority of these artists are all from the same art academy, zhong yang mei shu xue yuan ( central academy of fine arts), in Beijing. |
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Nick-la
Wonder Wit
Joined: July 19, 2003
Posts: 3675
Location: Wasted on this site
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Apr 12, 2004 - 06:46 PM |
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Oh dear, firstly we are going to have to define what we mean by culture here.
Benoist says that it cant include art.
The social side? Well as Schnickle says, you can only divide China up to do that, It would be like discussing European culture, too broad, too uneducated.
So dividing China up is as schnickle said, but to define modern culture in the west is aided by mass media, and entertainment. We think we can define culture in a meaningful way, but if we take away media, then what the hell have we got?
Fashion is so transient that it cannot be regarded as culture unless you drink espresso's with your pinkie held aloft. I say transient as there will always be fashion, merely the form changes. And it's always pretentious, if we are talking about designer productions.
So what else can we use to define western culture if we take away the comic book like media? So therefore, how can we define the modern culture of rural china, and modrn china with it huge incongrueties? The UK is still and unmoving, so it is a million times more difficult to pinpoint and label the fast moving creature that is China. |
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I'm surrounded by idiots. |
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Schnickle
Barker
Joined: Mar 26, 2004
Posts: 168
Status: Offline
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Apr 12, 2004 - 06:51 PM |
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how is art not culture? art is the foundation of culture, whatutalkinaboutwillis
cul·ture ( P ) Pronunciation Key (klchr)
n.
1.
1. The totality of socially transmitted behavior patterns, arts, beliefs, institutions, and all other products of human work and thought.
2. These patterns, traits, and products considered as the expression of a particular period, class, community, or population: Edwardian culture; Japanese culture; the culture of poverty.
3. These patterns, traits, and products considered with respect to a particular category, such as a field, subject, or mode of expression: religious culture in the Middle Ages; musical culture; oral culture.
4. The predominating attitudes and behavior that characterize the functioning of a group or organization.
2. Intellectual and artistic activity and the works produced by it.
3.
1. Development of the intellect through training or education.
2. Enlightenment resulting from such training or education. |
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Edgewood
FooSlinger
Joined: Jan 28, 2004
Posts: 3906
Location: Colonial Shanghai
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Apr 12, 2004 - 07:54 PM |
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| littlefox wrote: |
| ... At the moment, China is still under construction... |
It's a thing of wonder, this method of construction:
1. start building
2. sometime after the start date, begin design work
3. complete design work, ensuring the work is inherently flawed
4. have a meeting
5. complete work, only discover you've done it wrong
6. repair work begins
7. begin re-design work
8. finish re-design work
9. go to step 5
If cars were built this way, they would go from the assembly line to the repair centre to the wrecking yard. Yep, that's China all the way. I live in the hope of seeing a job done here that didn't over-employ people to do a half-arsed job in twice the time at double the cost for no good reason and with a 100% failure rate!
Actually, I am of the opinion that Chinese culture is alive and well... to see it visit a small independant nation somewhat to the south... |
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Harmonico
Raver
Joined: Dec 03, 2003
Posts: 414
Status: Offline
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Apr 12, 2004 - 08:25 PM |
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This thread is getting confusing. Let me ask a queston: what innovations in high culture has China made since 1949? I can't think of many. Almost all the "new" things we've got are but soups made of Chinese veggies seasoned by quick recipes bought in Western supermarkets. Chinese avant-garde writers merely imitate their Western counterparts: existentialism, surrealism, consciousness stream, monstrous realism (sorry i'm not familiar with the terms in english)...all borrowed from the West (and Latin America), still fledgeling in the down of world's most artistic characters years after they'd taken off in Europe and Americas. Don't refute me by the case of the Nobel Prize winner Gao Xingjian. He's French.
I, as a proud Chinese man (not proud of being Chinese (but don't get me wrong. I'm not ashamed of being Chinese, either), but proud of being me), am, however, anything but hopeless. I believe everything has its rythm. Each of them is like a firefly, constantly blinking, sometimes brighter, sometimes dimmer. |
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Toronto_expat
Lurker
Joined: June 25, 2004
Posts: 36
Status: Offline
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July 18, 2004 - 05:39 AM |
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Rambling on Modern Chinese 'Culture'
1. 'monstrous realism' --- it's Magic Realism
Quote
chiefly Latin-American narrative strategy that is characterized by the matter-of-fact inclusion of fantastic or mythical elements into seemingly realistic fiction. Although this strategy is known in the literature of many cultures in many ages, the term magic realism is a relatively recent designation, first applied in the 1940s by Cuban novelist Alejo Carpentier, who recognized this characteristic in much Latin-American literature. Some scholars have posited that magic realism is a natural outcome of postcolonial writing, which must make sense of at least two separate realities—the reality of the conquerors as well as that of the conquered. Prominent among the Latin-American magic realists are the Colombian Gabriel García Márquez, the Brazilian Jorge Amado, the Argentines Jorge Luis Borges and Julio Cortazar, and the Chilean Isabel Allende.
(Encyclodaedia Britannica)
2. Discussion of modernity in Chinese culture and arts must include the whole Chinese diaspora, which includes Taiwan, Hong Kong, oversea Chinese, etc.
A large portion of best recognized American composers (Tan Dun, Bright Sheng, etc) are late Chinese immigrants. Gao Xingjian, put aside the valid question that if he deserves or not, won the Nobel Prize for his works in Chinese language.
3. Regarding musicians other than composers, China offers the world more and more first-class pianists, string players, vocal artists. Two cases of major success in the western world are Yundi Li and Lang Lang.
4. It's well-known that China (esp. Beijing) has one of the most vibrant avant-gard movements in visual arts in the world.Shanghai is known for its uninspired art scene.
5. The tansformation of mainstream Chinese literature from Classical Chinese period which lasted for thousands of years to vernacular Chinese period is the greatest achievement in cultural modernity in China or anywhere else, despite the fact that people are still waiting for someone whose greatness is close to that of the great 20th century writers in other countries, esp. Russia, England, Ireland, Austria and Germany, Italy, America, Latin American countries as well as India and Japan.
It's noteworthy that tanslated foreign literature played and is still playing crucial role in the transformation.
It's reported that in 1980s, Stendhal's The Red and the Black has 20 different translations. In fact many young Chinese with a high school education have read some foreign novels.
6. A major form of art in 20th century, cinema, is actually well-developed in China, both in the golden age of Shanghai cinema in 1930-1940 and after 1949. After 1980s', Taiwanese cinema (logically part of Chinese cinema), achieves world reputation chiefly for the works of Hou Hsiao-hsien, Tsai Ming-liang and Edward Yang. Hong Kong's Wong Kar-wai is a cult figure worldwide. Mainland's so-called 5th generation is well-known across world. The 6th generation, on the other hand, has more independent spirit.
7. Modernity in China started in the 19th century, not after 1949.
8. Etiquette issues (spitting, etc.) are not totally irrelevant. One of the founding fathers of modern Chinese political thought, Kang Yu-wei (1858 ~ 1927), was very impressed by the high standard of hygiene and civilty during a trip to Hong Kong under British colonial rule. He went on to London and was inspired by what he saw.
9. I didn't mention pop culture largely because its escapism makes it irrelevant to the course of history. On the other hand, it will be nice to see pop culture movement similiar to that of 60s' in America taking place in China. I'm not sure if there are many angry young men in today's China --- probably not.
10. Amy Tan is an American writer who writes in English.
[/b] |
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whocare
Talker
Joined: Mar 09, 2004
Posts: 76
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July 19, 2004 - 09:33 AM |
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| Harmonico wrote: |
This thread is getting confusing. Let me ask a queston: what innovations in high culture has China made since 1949? I can't think of many. Almost all the "new" things we've got are but soups made of Chinese veggies seasoned by quick recipes bought in Western supermarkets. Chinese avant-garde writers merely imitate their Western counterparts: existentialism, surrealism, consciousness stream, monstrous realism (sorry i'm not familiar with the terms in english)...all borrowed from the West (and Latin America), still fledgeling in the down of world's most artistic characters years after they'd taken off in Europe and Americas. Don't refute me by the case of the Nobel Prize winner Gao Xingjian. He's French.
I, as a proud Chinese man (not proud of being Chinese (but don't get me wrong. I'm not ashamed of being Chinese, either), but proud of being me), am, however, anything but hopeless. I believe everything has its rythm. Each of them is like a firefly, constantly blinking, sometimes brighter, sometimes dimmer. |
well said, can not agree with you more...
modern chinese culture? is there any? if any, then turns out to be trash. |
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shanghaibarry
Barker
Joined: May 18, 2004
Posts: 188
Location: Shanghai
Status: Offline
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July 19, 2004 - 12:19 PM |
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China may not have the right environment to nurture artistic talents... but it doesn't mean there is no modern Chinese Culture. Culture is the sum of all things around us. Modern Chinese Culture, we all breath that day in day out. |
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