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Best way to deal with money

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frazzydee

Newbie

Joined: Apr 07, 2009
Posts: 7

Status: Offline

Posted: Apr 12, 2009 - 06:30 AM
Post subject: Best way to deal with money

First of all, I know this topic has probably been dealt with to death, but I've seen some conflicting information, and some of what I've read conflicts with my experiences...so I'm going to ask again: What's the best way to access my money in China?

Since I'm staying in China for 2 months, I plan to open an account with BoC. I'll want to deposit about 25,000元 as soon as i get there.

1) What is the best way to get my money in there in the first place?
- ATM and then deposit into my account? I'd be doing one large transaction, so the $5/whatever fee for this isn't a big deal. But would I be getting a good rate? When withdrawing using a foreign ATM card, will i get the bank of china fixed rate, or whatever rate my bank at home charges (likely worse)

I'm not being lazy, I phoned my bank and they didn't know what rates i'd get, or who I should ask... Rolling Eyes

- wire transfer? Huge fees & slow, but better rate?

- Bring cash? This way I'm guaranteed to get the bank of china rate. But it would be a little dangerous to carry that much cash on me. And if, for some reason, I can't open a BoC account right away I wouldn't feel safe carrying around that much for an extended period of time.

- Traveller's cheques? I've heard some bad stories about these, but it seems like the best of both worlds in terms of getting a good rate & security.

However, I saw a site claiming that BoC only accepts canadian traveller's cheques from Thomas Cook, and I don't know where to get those...

So if ATM gives me BoC rates then I guess that's my answer! =)

2) I'm going to be travelling around china to other provinces. Is it correct that there's an out-of-province fee if I withdraw money from my BoC account outside the province where it was set up?? Sounds a bit weird... Evil or Very Mad

Thanks!

pj4701

Talker

Joined: Dec 08, 2007
Posts: 105

Status: Offline

Posted: Apr 12, 2009 - 07:32 AM

Chinese banks are a pain in the ass, I would bring cash. 25000RMB isn't that much, and if you need more you can get it from an ATM from your home account and just pay the fees. Travelers checks are iffy, I've heard people have problems with them-whatever the bank may say, the little girl doing the transaction probably has never heard of one and will say "thats not money!" Oh and enjoy the trip...

Chrisse

SuperStar

Joined: Feb 25, 2009
Posts: 1323

Status: Offline

Posted: Apr 12, 2009 - 07:35 AM

1) The ATM rates will be whatever the Credit Card company decides + any fee's from your American bank. (at least this is the way it works in Sweden) For example, I have 2 banks in Sweden, one has a fee of $5 per withdrawal plus 1.5% extra on the currency. So my total would be (Amount of RMB to take out)*(Credit Card decided exchange rate)*1.015 + $5. My other one is much better when traveling abroad as I only work with the Credit Card rate and no added fees, what so ever.

Some banks in China though add an extra fee for using a foreign Credit Card, stay away from these. I mainly use ICBC, BoC and Agricultural BoC.

Remember that you can not take out that much in one withdrawal from an ATM. The biggest limit I have seen so far is 5k RMB. (Ie that $5 has to be multiplied by 5...)

2) I have that for my ICBC account and would be very surprised if it is any different with BoC. Also a 2 RMB fee per withdrawal if I take out money from another ATM except my ICBC in Shanghai.

underh20
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Joined: Sep 27, 2006
Posts: 12702
Location: Veggie-Free Zone

Posted: Apr 12, 2009 - 07:54 AM

Chrisse wrote:

The rate is decided by Visa / MasterCard / American Express and is generally the interbank wholesale rate + a foreign currency exchange fee from approximately 1-5 - 3% + fees imposed by your card issuer, if any.

All in all, the rate you end up paying -- even with fees -- will probably be as good as the Bank of China cash rate.

Some banks in the US, such as Bank of America and CrapitolOne, have low or no international transaction fees and may even rebate the foreign currency exchange fees.

Chrisse wrote:

Some banks in China though add an extra fee for using a foreign Credit Card, stay away from these. I mainly use ICBC, BoC and Agricultural BoC.

Never seen that. If true, it would only be banks like Minsheng or China Merchants Bank.

Chrisse wrote:

Remember that you can not take out that much in one withdrawal from an ATM. The biggest limit I have seen so far is 5k RMB. (Ie that $5 has to be multiplied by 5...)

There is a daily limit that is generally about 25k RMB, but individual transaction limits are generally about 5k. So, to get 25k you'd have to perform 5 separate transactions. However, for overseas issued cards there is another limit which is almost always lower and that is decided by your card-issuing bank.

Chrisse wrote:

2) I have that for my ICBC account and would be very surprised if it is any different with BoC. Also a 2 RMB fee per withdrawal if I take out money from another ATM except my ICBC in Shanghai.

This 2 RMB ATM fee is exclusively for domestic credit cards. It does not apply to overseas cards.

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"If I need to buy a TV, I'll definitely buy a Japanese TV. A Chinese TV might explode." -- Jackie Chan

sinned69

Veejay

Joined: Sep 01, 2004
Posts: 1852
Location: China, Middle East, Asia Pacific
Status: Offline

Posted: Apr 12, 2009 - 08:00 AM

I see two options as being the easiest...
option A.
The easiest way is bringing over cash. Just make sure you declare any amount above the limit when arriving through customs (used to be us$10k) otherwise if you don't and are caught it can be confiscated.
Once inside the country simply have a local (unless you speak, read/write Chinese) help you open an account. Chinese open and close bank accounts all the time. Exchange your forex into rmb and then deposit it into your newly opened bank account. The bonus about this method is that its easy to do, and you'll be able to exchange your rmb back into forex at the end, provided its within the allowable time and you have your transaction receipt -so don't lose it. This is something to remember, as you will most likely want to convert your rmb back at the end, and its somewhat complicated unless you have that forex exchange receipt mentioned above, or have a local use their ID card.

option B
Creditcard or Debitcard option.
(get some rmb prior to arriving into China, so you have some local currency for the essentials from the get-go). From then on simply use your creditcard or debitcard either over the counter or via ATM and get the maximum amount you can in a single withdrawal or as allowed for daily limits. Check with your bank at home before leaving and get the credit card that will minimise your fees in this regard and find out the transaction limit. (just keep in mind TIC, so what should be done and what is done maybe different things).
There are many foreigners here using this option (creditcard cash advances), business travellers through to exchange students here for 6-12 months.
Easy option with you only needing to carry a little cash on your person and a plastic card.

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Last edited by sinned69 on Apr 12, 2009 - 08:11 AM; edited 1 time in total

Chrisse

SuperStar

Joined: Feb 25, 2009
Posts: 1323

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Posted: Apr 12, 2009 - 08:02 AM

underh20 wrote:

Lol, forgot how to explain how the credit card exchange rate worked, thanks. Anyway, that is how it works in Sweden, one of my banks are greedy when it comes to foreign exchange, one is not so greedy.

Quote:

Never seen that. If true, it would only be banks like Minsheng or China Merchants Bank.

Can't remember exactly which ones but I have seen it, maybe HSBC, can't really remember. I have used my foreign credit card a lot of times and usually get a message that it might be a fee for processing this withdrawal. That message is the one that your own bank might have you pay a fee but these messages where different. There it clearly said that the bank would put a fee for using a foreign credit card.

Quote:

This 2 RMB ATM fee is exclusively for domestic credit cards. It does not apply to overseas cards.

Yes, but in this question I think he was referring to a domestic one as he would open a BoC account and asked about fees in other provinces.

Last edited by Chrisse on Apr 12, 2009 - 08:06 AM; edited 2 times in total

underh20
Board Legend

Joined: Sep 27, 2006
Posts: 12702
Location: Veggie-Free Zone

Posted: Apr 12, 2009 - 08:04 AM
Post subject: Re: Best way to deal with money

frazzydee wrote:

Since I'm staying in China for 2 months, I plan to open an account with BoC. I'll want to deposit about 25,000元 as soon as i get there.

1) What is the best way to get my money in there in the first place?
- ATM and then deposit into my account? I'd be doing one large transaction, so the $5/whatever fee for this isn't a big deal. But would I be getting a good rate? When withdrawing using a foreign ATM card, will i get the bank of china fixed rate, or whatever rate my bank at home charges (likely worse)

25k RMB is NOT a lot of money -- as another poster already pointed out. It's approximately $3,500 which you can easily bring in cash.

In any event, it is virtually impossible that your credit card issuer in the US will allow a $3,500 withdrawl via ATM in only one day. It will probably take you more like 4 days ... or even a week.

frazzydee wrote:

- wire transfer? Huge fees & slow, but better rate?

2 - 3 days is slow? The fees depend on your bank back home. HSBC has a flat $13 fee if you perform the transfer online.

frazzydee wrote:

- Bring cash? This way I'm guaranteed to get the bank of china rate. But it would be a little dangerous to carry that much cash on me. And if, for some reason, I can't open a BoC account right away I wouldn't feel safe carrying around that much for an extended period of time.

If you have a passport, you can open an account in Bank of China immediately.

frazzydee wrote:

- Traveller's cheques? I've heard some bad stories about these, but it seems like the best of both worlds in terms of getting a good rate & security.

However, I saw a site claiming that BoC only accepts canadian traveller's cheques from Thomas Cook, and I don't know where to get those...

Not sure about Canadian ones, but TCs from less-known companies in the US can be cashed at Bank of China, but they put a hold until the checks clear -- usually two weeks.

frazzydee wrote:

2) I'm going to be travelling around china to other provinces. Is it correct that there's an out-of-province fee if I withdraw money from my BoC account outside the province where it was set up?? Sounds a bit weird... Evil or Very Mad

Assuming you will use a domestic ATM card to access your funds, there is a 2 RMB for inter-provincial withdrawls at an ATM owned by the same bank that issued your ATM card. For inter-provincial withdrawls at another bank's ATM, the fee is 4 RMB. Again, 25k RMB is not a lot of money. Even if you withdrew it all in one day via an ATM you'd only pay -- at most -- 20 RMB in fees. Are you really that poor where 20 RMB is going to hurt you?

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underh20
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Joined: Sep 27, 2006
Posts: 12702
Location: Veggie-Free Zone

Posted: Apr 12, 2009 - 08:08 AM

Chrisse wrote:

underh20 wrote:

Never seen that. If true, it would only be banks like Minsheng or China Merchants Bank.

Probably HSBC. But since HSBC's ATM population is approximately 0.0001% of the national total, probably not something you'd lose sleep over.

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"If I need to buy a TV, I'll definitely buy a Japanese TV. A Chinese TV might explode." -- Jackie Chan

Chrisse

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Joined: Feb 25, 2009
Posts: 1323

Status: Offline

Posted: Apr 12, 2009 - 08:10 AM
Post subject: Re: Best way to deal with money

underh20 wrote:

Really now? Then BoC has to be a lot better for inter-provincial withdrawals than ICBC. When I opened an account the clerk told me it was 1.5% fee for inter-provincial withdrawals...

underh20
Board Legend

Joined: Sep 27, 2006
Posts: 12702
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Posted: Apr 12, 2009 - 08:11 AM
Post subject: Re: Best way to deal with money

Chrisse wrote:

underh20 wrote:

Really now? Then BoC has to be a lot better for inter-provincial withdrawals then ICBC. When I opened an account the clerk told me it was 1.5% fee for inter-provincial withdrawals...

Not by ATM.

The fee is for teller withdrawls. And it is only 1% for ICBC. Less if you do it online.

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"If I need to buy a TV, I'll definitely buy a Japanese TV. A Chinese TV might explode." -- Jackie Chan

Chrisse

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Posts: 1323

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Posted: Apr 12, 2009 - 08:20 AM

^Ah, yes, it was 1%. I mixed it up with my earlier post. Laughing

frazzydee

Newbie

Joined: Apr 07, 2009
Posts: 7

Status: Offline

Posted: Apr 12, 2009 - 09:13 AM

Thank you all for your helpful advice =)

No, 25,000元 isn't a lot, but i am a poor student and it would hurt if I lost that much! Razz

So just trying to stay safe. But not so poor that a 2元 fee would hurt Wink

But I guess I'll just bring cash, since it seems to be the best option (value & convenience)

Oh, but I should note, I was talking about using a debit card in an ATM. Also, my limit is something like $5,000 so hitting it won't be an issue ($5000 is about 28,000 RMB)

underh20
Board Legend

Joined: Sep 27, 2006
Posts: 12702
Location: Veggie-Free Zone

Posted: Apr 12, 2009 - 09:16 AM

frazzydee wrote:

Oh, but I should note, I was talking about using a debit card in an ATM. Also, my limit is something like $5,000 so hitting it won't be an issue ($5000 is about 28,000 RMB)

Not sure what you mean by "limit" since only credit cards have limits unless you mean your ATM daily withdrawl limit.

That said, you'd better check with your bank again because virtually no bank in North America will allow you to withdraw $5,000 per day from an ATM with a debit card or a credit card.

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"If I need to buy a TV, I'll definitely buy a Japanese TV. A Chinese TV might explode." -- Jackie Chan

frazzydee

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Joined: Apr 07, 2009
Posts: 7

Status: Offline

Posted: Apr 12, 2009 - 09:29 AM

underh20 wrote:

frazzydee wrote:

Oh, but I should note, I was talking about using a debit card in an ATM. Also, my limit is something like $5,000 so hitting it won't be an issue ($5000 is about 28,000 RMB)

Yes, I meant my ATM daily withdrawal limit. And you're right, it's actually $1,000 not $5,000 Embarassed

underh20
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Posts: 12702
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Posted: Apr 12, 2009 - 09:32 AM

frazzydee wrote:

underh20 wrote:

frazzydee wrote:

Oh, but I should note, I was talking about using a debit card in an ATM. Also, my limit is something like $5,000 so hitting it won't be an issue ($5000 is about 28,000 RMB)

Yes, I meant my ATM daily withdrawal limit. And you're right, it's actually $1,000 not $5,000 Embarassed

Anyhow, you could just bring cash or a combination cash / bank card. But to be really safe, you could bring a little cash and then once here and set up with a bank account have the rest of your money sent to you by bank wire.

_________________
"If I need to buy a TV, I'll definitely buy a Japanese TV. A Chinese TV might explode." -- Jackie Chan