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Relocation and Moving - Moving to Shanghai - Cost of living?

Pobi-Wan - July 24, 2008 - 07:11 PM
Post subject: Moving to Shanghai - Cost of living?

Hey Everybody!

I have recently been given the opportunity to move to Shanghai for a new job. I currently live in Yorkshire in the UK.
Now I am not silly enough to think I would get a UK wage over here but the figure banded about is 10,000 RNB a month. Is this enough to live off? That is, without resorting to living in a windowless bedsit and eating out of bins. As I have never been I have no perspective. I dont expect to live like a king but I would hope it would be akin to living on a wage of £25-30K in the UK, if that makes sense.

Also should I be asking for anything else? Health care?

Cheers

YorkshireKing - July 24, 2008 - 08:37 PM
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Pobi

Are you single, male, young etc??

If so, be careful of the Honey traps.. You may need more money!

You absolutely need healthcare ( BUPA, Norwich Union etc), paid fully by your company, along with a housing allowance, holiday flights home etc..

10000rmb a month is more than do-able, if you have your apartment paid for and healthcare too.

We were living on £50k a year whilst there and enjoyed a relaxed good life, but still not in the same league of some multi-corporate expats.

10000Rmb per/month is usually the "English teacher/ Financial advisor" pay scale.

If you go for it, you will have a great time.

Besides you can always return to God's Own County Wink

Will you be in Puxi, or Pudong??
Is the company position a good one??

How far do you expect to travel?
Will you use the Metro/Driver/Taxi/Walk

Do you prefer to eat out/cook at home etc?

All important for choosing where you should live..

Pobi-Wan - July 25, 2008 - 06:45 PM
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Hmmm - just been told there is no living allowance!

also you can get flights home or health care but not both. I would choose health care although it does not include dentistry or prescriptions.

This is seeming less worth it now.

Ah Beng - July 25, 2008 - 09:30 PM
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^Still workable, sticks to the basic and don't expect fancy parties..

Magnolia - July 25, 2008 - 10:06 PM
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YorkshireKing has given you solid advice.

Since you have learned more details about the compensation package the company is offereing, then it is time to decide if you want to live in Shanghai, are looking for international exposure and what you are willing to go without to make it happen.

IMHO, 10K per month, without other perks (especially housing) is going to make enjoying the city difficult.

One last point, is this company prepared (and able) to obtain the proper (Z) visa for you? A lot of companies will tell you they will assist with the business (F) visa and that is not a legal visa for living and working in Shanghai on a full-time basis. Schools and smaller companies are notorious for this and if caught, you are going to pay a fine. Additionally, the company should pay for all visa-related acquisition costs.

winopete - July 25, 2008 - 11:37 PM
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I second Mag's opinion that 10K will not cover much apart from very basic necessities, unless you'd be happy eating simple local food 6 nights out of 7. To enjoy Shanghai's westernised night life and restaurants, say 2-3 times a week, you'd need a monthly salary of at least RMB20k. An apartment in a central area like Jing An or Chang Ning will set you back at least RMB5K/mth.

YorkshireKing - July 26, 2008 - 12:59 AM
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Magnolia wrote:

YorkshireKing has given you solid advice.

Awww Shucks, Mags Embarassed

To the OP, What exactly is the job position??

And Seriously, You need full medical insurance at least!

Apartment wise, the moment the landlord finds out you are western, the price will double!!

Adrienne - July 26, 2008 - 10:37 AM
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Yes, I agree that it will be tight but when we look at our local staff's salaries 3,000 to 5,000rmb per month then it is doable. Many do live at home so they don't have accomodation/food expenses, travel by public transport and eat and shop in local places. I think you'll need to combine your lifestyle with local and western. For example, walk to your local supermarket and buy all your basic weekly needs. The international supermarkets with western goods are expensive so see what you can get locally first then head there for a top up and to get hard to find items and comfort food. It seems harder to bring food from home now they are cracking down on it all at airports.

Get a place that has a subway closeby that it is one the sme line as your office is. Find an apartment that has all your needs closeby, supermarkets, markets, cafes, restaurants etc. so that you don't have to rely too much on transport.

With your apartment, try to get the landlrod to include Sat TV, ADSL, as well as utility allowance like 500rmb per month. You can also ask for pots and pans, crockery, cutlery, linen and towels to start you off. Best that you get an allowance for this and buy it yourself at IKEA or Carrefour or you'll end up with bowls, chop sticks, a wok, floral sheets and the tiniest towel you've ever seen.

Utilities are quite cheap here compared to the west and gas and water bills are really low so if you don't get this included it won't break the bank. if yo do have to get your own ADSL, ask the landlord to pay for the instalation of it and you pay the usage. Same for the Sat TV too. The instalation fee is the higher part of the package. Anyway, you shouldn't have to pay for a dish and machine that he/she will no doubt use as a benefit for the next tenant. Rentals are higher for foriengers but not double. That's why, in my opinion, you shouldn't pay 35% to the agent and the landlord should cover all the commission to the agent.

Welcome to Shanghai!

Adrienne
http://www.shanghaiprops.com

Zak101 - July 26, 2008 - 03:00 PM
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10,000 RMB a month ? Oops, I must have missed a zero then.

Gosh, Yorkeshire on the dole is far more attractive.

Daahhling, do a good Google search. "Schools" now are frantic since so many expats have been given "the please leave letter".

10,000 RMB a month will cover your rent,and a very miserable time in Shanghai, before you scrimp enough to return home, despairing. Check the web for prices.

Best stay put, Shanghai is OK on 30,000 RMB a month, but 10 ? Dormities are great....but - you'll want to play. Forget it on 10 a month.

Ah Beng - July 26, 2008 - 03:29 PM
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^Zak, I noticed you location in Suzhou. Would you say 10k is more do-able over there?

wxyztbc - July 26, 2008 - 05:10 PM
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If there is not include rentals, healthcare ins, retirement, and transportation, 10K RMB that's really way too low. you left some mandatory disposable income to comfort yourself for the lower living standard of uncivilised world, like go to pub drinks with friends.... go ask for more...

YorkshireKing - July 26, 2008 - 05:29 PM
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Zak101 wrote:

Gosh, Yorkeshire on the dole is far more attractive.

Oh no it isn't..

Druggies, Chavs, Crazy immigration laws, Mindless violence, Soaring fuel and living costs and...

Gordon Brown Rolling Eyes

Welcome to UK 2008, The future is grim!

gw4khq - July 26, 2008 - 09:19 PM
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^ spot on yorkshire. plenty of people survive here on a lot less. Get the best deal you can out of the company. Come, but always make sure you have a seperate bank account for you fligfht home if things don't work out.

gw4khq - July 26, 2008 - 09:22 PM
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Sorry for those with english spell checkers. f off in fligfth.

Pobi-Wan - July 27, 2008 - 09:22 PM
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Thanks for all the advice so far everyone.

Although I am keen on the company and it seems like a good role, I think you are right, 10K is very low. I will see if there is any play on the salary, but otherwise it looks like a non starter. It would be awful to go all that way only to be miserable!

aLeGna - July 28, 2008 - 02:54 PM
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I think 10K is enough IF you have your healthcare and your flat rental shouldered by the company at the very least (i.e., if you're single). If you're up for the experience of working here, I believe you'll find a way to make ends meet, but make sure that you'll save enough money to buy your flight tickets.

You might want to consider if the 10K is post tax already.

I usually live frugally during my first couple of months, but after that, I can splurge a lot more when it comes to lifestyle (e.g., clubbing, dining out, shopping).

If you're not used to eating Chinese food (and I don't mean Chinese food in UK), your meal budget can be rather tough on your pocket. But if you don't have a sensitive stomach, I think you can easily adopt to the local food. Don't get me wrong, though. With 10K, you can manage to have a nice Western dinner at least once or twice a week.

Here's a basic LOCAL budget sample:
Meals 30 RMB/day (bfast, lunch & dinner)
Transportation 10/day (or less 2-way on metro)
Bills & Utilities 500/month

With this you'll still have around 8K RMB that you can split for clubbing, dining out, shopping, and savings. To me, 8K is more than enough.

I believe it's a matter of perspective. Wink

Typical Scotsman - July 28, 2008 - 03:07 PM
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[quote="Zak101"]

10,000 RMB a month will cover your rent,and a very miserable time in Shanghai.

I agree with Zak101 - I don't see how 10,000 RMB is enough, especially if you also have committments back home, mortgage, debt payments etc etc I'd tell them to take their 10k and shove it where the sun don't shine - push them for more.

puhlease - July 29, 2008 - 01:03 PM
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10,000 RMB is not enough to live on unless you are content to live like a local.

GoldenZ - Sep 01, 2008 - 08:56 PM
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Hi there,
well i have an important question, and i would like to have the answer quickly please....
I'm have a job opportunity in Luwan in Shanghai, but i want to know about the living costs in the City Luwan.
The apartment, food, internet, phone bills and work transportation are free.
I'm gonna get about 425 US Dollars a month ( about 3000 RMB )
So I REALLY want your quick advice about that.
Thanx alot..

jettt - Sep 02, 2008 - 12:03 AM
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@ GoldenZ

No way.

RussianBear - Sep 02, 2008 - 12:21 AM
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10k/month is enough, though without luxury. Normal for the start.

barrel - Sep 05, 2008 - 05:15 PM
Post subject:

10k is do-able and once you're here you can look for better paid jobs and also could probably pick up some part time work to supliment your salary.

Rent - 3500
Bills - 500
Monday to Friday eating and drinking locally - 2000
Weekend eat western and have a few pints in the pub - 4000

Ok your not going to be living like a king but it isn't all that bad.

barrel - Sep 05, 2008 - 05:35 PM
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Also drinking and eating local is part of the experience....why would you want to travel half way around the world just to live like you live back home???

ckfactor - Sep 05, 2008 - 05:36 PM
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You could just apartment share man. Couple thousand and you be good. That is a pretty shat ass salary. UK to RMB I expect they to give you 20,000 K minimum. I say screw it unless it is a promotion that will stick once you return to the UK and get paid.

ckfactor - Sep 05, 2008 - 05:39 PM
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People always recommend eating locally, unless you have traveled to developing countries for many yrs. You will get massively sick.

I recommend eating McDonalds and KFC for a while then easing your way local.

ckfactor - Sep 05, 2008 - 05:47 PM
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I still never got this eating local, I still spend 150 - 400 rmb a meal eating Chinese food. Unless you eating the ghetto food of chow mein or ho fun that cost 4-6 rmb. Or the slightly less ghetto restaurants that cost 15 rmb - 30 rmb.

Eating local in Shanghai is like eating Dolar Shop, Hot Pot or Spicy Joint. I still minimum spend 100 rmb or more.

Even last night I spent 147 rmb on ghetto seafood outside, but I also was eating scallops and the such.

ckfactor - Sep 05, 2008 - 05:55 PM
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Also you forgetting clothes and amenities. They can cost you the US equivalent. My suits still cost 1000s of rmb.

Shirts and pants if they are not ghetto 150+ rmb, nicer stuff still cost you 500 rmb or more

Gym can cost 2000 - 4000 rmb a yr.

Drinks can cost 45 rmb and up for a beer
Mixed drinks 75 rmb and up
These are at pretty good clubs

Say you want to buy electronics, and stuff. It sometimes just the same price RMB. My TV here cost 20,000 rmb Sony though

So I say 20,000 K would be doable, for a pretty good life. My gf is local and thinks that is doable for a local.

She prefer we both were making that each month.

Humac - Sep 05, 2008 - 07:17 PM
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ckfactor wrote:

I was told I'd be sick if I ate the local food. Not true. McDonald's and KFC on the other hand...
There are plenty of cheap, local restaurants that are clean and healthy...a few are not, of course, but it should be fairly obvious which ones to avoid.

ckfactor - Sep 05, 2008 - 07:26 PM
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Dude KFC has congee, and many local style Chinese favored western foods. So does Maccas.

Taro Pie, Mala Burger

You don't need to go to the streets to eat local. Hell go to Pizza Hut and have a Chinese topped pizza.

Fusion goo gooo power rangers.

midnight - Sep 05, 2008 - 08:25 PM
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^ WTF.... so you get the shits for a few days and then get on with life...no big deal!

howarda - Sep 05, 2008 - 09:56 PM
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10,000 is definitly doable and you can have fun, I mean come on most expats are english teachers and thats what the majority get paid. You will have to watch you're money though, I mean cooking at home using local ingrediants and not hitting the expensive clubs. Also I would leave the insurance for flights but thats just me.

Its just a lot of ppl here have been here for a while and are used to having a lot more. Trust me its still a good amount of money here,you'll just have to hold back a bit on some of the western luxuries which can be very expensive.

JoJo cheng - Sep 27, 2008 - 12:57 AM
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I'm JoJo.Looking for a roommate, to share apartment, girl or boy, speak fluent English. My apartment is close to Metro Line2, 3, 4, near Zhong Shan Park & High Mall, very clean & well refurbished. I'm a caterer & event planner, fun to be with, call me at 13162855212.
Mailbox is bolomama@163.com
The rental is 1500yuan per month.

LoveBoxStorage - Sep 27, 2008 - 11:54 AM
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The important thing to keep in mind is that once you're here, it's much easier to trade up depending on your industry. If your job opportunity over here will entail real hands-on work, then you shouldn't have much of a problem bumping up your pay with another firm 6-12 months after you arrive. (That assumes the economy doesn't get hit too hard.)

My advice is therefore to ask yourself why you're interested in coming to Shanghai. If you see a long-term reason for doing so, then it could be worth it to bite the bullet for a little while on 10K.

mi60610 - Oct 05, 2008 - 02:17 PM
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Interesting string. I'm interviewing for a position to direct a staff of 40-50 working directly under the CEO. I've been in my profession for 20 years and past 10 have had my own (smaller) company. Similiar position in US might be 100-150K. I have to send money back to the US so my family can live on a portion of the salary. I'm bringing a great deal to the table here. Does anyone have recommendations for what I should be asking for in terms of salary? Thanks,

xeno - Nov 24, 2008 - 06:07 AM
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Hey, I posted a message on here earlier ( http://www.shanghaiexpat.com/MDForum-viewtopic-t-84835.phtml ).

I've been offered a typical teaching job, but I'm using that to get into Shanghai and start looking for another job afterwards. Its only 20 hours a week, for 8k/month. My girlfriend has also been offered 8k but not as a teacher.

So we'll be sharing rent etc, and estimated to having to spend 2k/month on rent. I think i need to be clear, as I have lived in China before on a salary of less than 4k and found it pretty comfortable after being a student, actually being able to afford to eat out was amazing. Whilst I've seen alot of comments above of people not being able to live off anything less than 20k/month? Are you guys mental? Smile

You must be spending all day sat in starbucks eating too many cheese cakes.

I am not aiming to live the high life. I don't drink, and I'm not interested in going to the expensive western bars.

Anyways, can WE live on a combined salary of 16k/month. Living closish to the center of town, but not in it. I like to eat the local stuff, not the golden M or KFC.

thanks for any help, don't take the above as taking the piss Smile

Theres a chance of us both being upped to 10k, but we'll see.

xeno - Nov 24, 2008 - 06:09 AM
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oh, my reasons for moving.

I'm living in london right now, graduated last year and currently earn £20k a year. IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO SAVE MONEY IN LONDON ON THIS SALARY. So I figure I might aswell go somewhere new.

I have considered starting my own company once arriving, as I'll have lots of spare time only working 20 hours a week.

MrPuxi - Nov 24, 2008 - 09:36 AM
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10k a month WITHOUT housing allowance put together with this lame trade off "homeleave vs. medical undercoverage" is not really that hot.

you will live, but seriuosly you will not roll in style by any means (or get to enjoy SHA)! this package sucks and just the benefit of "international exposure" seems a bit meaningless.

unless htere really is some light at the end of this tunnel (promotion, SIGNIFICANT raise after 6 months..), you should not try it out. you will hate it.

amitmisra - Sep 26, 2009 - 01:25 AM
Post subject: Re: Moving to Shanghai - Cost of living?

[quote="Amit

I have recently been given the opportunity to move to Shanghai for a new job. I currently live in India

kindly advice how much RMB per mnth we require to survive in Shanghai for a healthy life for a copule excluding house rent and house bills bills
and what is the system of health care there in shanghai

amitmisra - Sep 26, 2009 - 01:25 AM
Post subject: Re: Moving to Shanghai - Cost of living?

trousers - Sep 26, 2009 - 02:04 AM
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Amitmisra, it all depends upon what mean by 'survive'. For us that's 10k plus, some would say that's a lot, others would say that's very little. Many locals live happily on 3k or less. I would imagine that the cost of living here is much more than in India.

Health care? An expat needs insurance or will have to pay full whack. This varies of course from the 'western' places and the 'local'.

Ah Beng - Sep 26, 2009 - 02:17 AM
Post subject: Re: Moving to Shanghai - Cost of living?

amitmisra wrote:

I have recently been given the opportunity to move to Shanghai for a new job. I currently live in India

kindly advice how much RMB per mnth we require to survive in Shanghai for a healthy life for a copule excluding house rent and house bills bills
and what is the system of health care there in shanghai

Don't worry amitmisra, if you can survive India, it'll be a breeze here..

Minimum RMB to srvive shanghai? Can be as cheap as India or as expensive as NY...depends on your lifestyle.

Local Healthcare: First, self medicate, then local clinics for basic ailments (affordable and inexpensive)

International Healthcare: Basic GP minimum consultaion rate is est. 800rmb per visit. If you have any major illness and needs hospitalisation, the sky's the limit. It would make more sense to fly to Singapore for equally professional and much more affordable heathcare.

nmo_uk - Sep 26, 2009 - 04:38 AM
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There is nothing wrong with the local food!
I grew up in England and had never traveled beyond Europe before my trip, did not feel sick in the slightest. BBQ, street food and hot pot are much better than maccie d's and kfc. I spent a month in a clean hotel with ensuite tv and breakfast aswell as doing tourist activities and eating/drinking out, all for under 10,000.

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