Shanghai Expat

Travelers and Travel Issues - What do U think of the Shanghai Metro?
Victorian - May 03, 2004 - 11:40 PM
Post subject: What do U think of the Shanghai Metro?
I only go on the tube whenever I give up on fighting with the locals for a cab, especially when it rains like tonight! Shanghai has all the $$ she has to build a world class metro system but she has opted for a 2nd or 3rd class system. How I wish she has a metro like the ones in Hong Kong!
okido - May 04, 2004 - 02:07 AM
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It's not just about the system, the hardware, but the quality of service, the level of cleaness and the level of politeness of the passangers. Can they ever really clean the floor of some stations? Can people ever cue for buying tickets, getting on and off the train? Even if they really bought and built the best, the most advanced system, it would still look and feel 3rd class if without the quality of service and quality of people to manage it and to ride with it.

Look at HK metro system. Look at Taipei metro system. They are all "older" than Shanghai Metro but both feel so much "newer". Look at Boston metro, you would feel it's aged, like a antigue still functioning well, but not "3rd class". I think what makes riding comfortable is not 100% the system but the quality of management and the society.
Victorian - May 04, 2004 - 04:02 AM
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I agree totally that it's not just the system but the management and the society. I have given up on these two already because I think it will take 3 generations for the Shanghainess to catch up with what the more advanced places have nowadays. What the culture revolution has done to the society has been more far reaching than I expect before arriving here!!
tone - June 02, 2004 - 04:44 PM
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Actually I don't think it's that bad - sure it ain't Hong Kong, but the MTR there is the best I've used (think bettter than Singapore) for convenience and shipping so many people efficiently.

Compared to some other places Shanghai system not so bad. Consider the smart card paying, the regular (I've only had one experience of delays) service and the (relative to the rest of Shanghai) cleanliness it's not bad. Not first class, but certainly not third.

What they need to do is think smarter like HK, with adequate escalators, transfer stops across the platform, not 3 kms away (ie People's Square) and enough exits.

Issues re standing in line for tickets, barging on the train before you get off, etc - well it is Shanghai after all!!!
Anniboodk - June 02, 2004 - 04:52 PM
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I don't think that the Shanghai metro is that bad either and I have to take it to and from work during rush hour. I find the metro, fast, clean and easy to navigate. The main problem is perhaps the subway ettiquette that many chinese people have yet to learn.

先下后上 (first let the people get off then get on) just isn't really practiced here.
ryanrake - June 02, 2004 - 05:59 PM
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It ain't great, but it works for some of us. If you live right at one stop and work right at another, it is fine - particularly if you work/live near one of the final stops so you can get a seat most rides.

To me, I HATE the transfer points...I fortunately don't transfer enroute to/from work, but when I go out after work and someone suggests meeting off of the "other" line - I cringe...what is it about the 人民广场站 that makes that transfer so terrible!?!? the crowds are mind-blowing, the distance between platforms seems longer than my ride to work, and there seems to be two ways of getting from the 2 line platform to the 1 line - one seems shorter, but the other takes you around this corridor full of shops and brings you there in double the time...is it just me, or does someone else have this "there are two ways to the platform - choose well fool" feeling?!?!

I also wish you could transfer to the #3 line (light rail thingy) without actually leaving the station and having to pay again...again, a transfer issue for me...

anyway, yeah, given the inevitable necessity of good public transit here more needs to be done...
tone - June 02, 2004 - 06:12 PM
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Agree with Ryanrake - the fact I walk an extra 15 minutes to my apartment rather than transfer to a line to be 5 minutes away is a good example of what a hassle it is. Particularly at peak times (when they shut the short way from line 1 to line 2 so you have no chance of the shortest way) or when it rains, People's Square is Nightmare Square for me!
tx2sh - June 03, 2004 - 01:19 PM
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ryanrake wrote:
...there seems to be two ways of getting from the 2 line platform to the 1 line - one seems shorter, but the other takes you around this corridor full of shops and brings you there in double the time...is it just me, or does someone else have this "there are two ways to the platform - choose well fool" feeling?!?!...


i felt the same when i first did the transfer. if you remember to walk towards exit 5 (if you are going from the 1 to the 2) you will find that this is the shorter way. however, if you are trying to transfer during rush hour (7:30-9:30 and 16:30-18:30) you'll find you can only go one way (the long way)...an attempt to have a better flow of traffic...it actually helps a great deal.
Zizi - June 03, 2004 - 03:05 PM
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Does anyone know why they keep playing the same "funniest home videos" reruns on line two? For a month and I half, I've been watching the same old fisherman hooking each other and falling in the water.
tone - June 04, 2004 - 11:03 AM
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Those videos drive me crazy - especially the girl who does interesting things with her tongue (true!) - but they seem to keep those passengers who get off in the depths of Pudong happy and amused no matter how many times they show it.

Also, when are they going to update the English Premier League highlights on Line 2? This morning I watched Leeds v Spurs and Hoddle was still manager (he was sacked almost a year ago).
chihuahua - July 01, 2004 - 01:59 PM
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Shanghai tube is of course cannot compare with those of London and HK, for the lack of experience and lack of years of development. However, it is improving in a fast speed considering the time range. And it is safe, no accident reported so far, which is the crucial to passengers.
tx2sh - July 07, 2004 - 11:10 AM
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does anyone know what the construction is about around people's square subway station?
xixi - July 07, 2004 - 07:06 PM
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to tx2sh, they are just expanding the underground space for people flow by demolishing the stores. It is quite painful to see the prices that bad planning and management has to pay for.

"And it is safe, no accident reported so far, which is the crucial to passengers." suicidal accidents in subway are reported every month. The delay of the trains are not unusual if u read the newspapers here. Shanghai is considering of building shields on platform which is used in HK. Due to its high cost, don't know when it will be built.

I have just visited HK and so I can see the problems that shanghai subway has.

1. too many stores in subway which has actually slow the people flow;
2. incredibly inconvenient transfer, in HK, transfer distance is about 50 meters not like 2km in shanghai;
3. no shields to stop some people jumping from the platform;
4. no discount rate for the old and the kids and transportation card;
5. no clear signage or separation line for the in-out people flow;
6. manners need to be improved definitely
7. too many chinglish signage which is quite entertaining sometimes

still subway in Sh is the best transportation means to go to downtown.
Victorian - July 09, 2004 - 02:16 AM
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continued from xixi's list:

8. the train speed is faster in HK and they have 2 minutes service during rush hours;
9. the Octopus Card in HK provide discounts when you change from one mode of transportation to another, e.g. bus to MTR, this is a win-win-win solution to traffic jam - different operators can schedule shorter turnaround time and people are attracted to leave their cars at home;
10. the connectativity to streets, buildings, etc, are very well planned in HK, it's virtually weatherproof in HK;
11. the in-town-check-in service at the HK Airport Express stations is unbeatable;
12. the floors are less slippery in HK;
13. the flip gates in HK allow big luggage to pass thru';
14. air-conditioning in HK is better;
15. there is wifi services in HK MTR;

BTW, the name for those doors at the platforms are call Platform Screen Doors.

All I'm saying in this thread is that if SHA is spending billions to build a metro system, they should plan it well and build it good. I think the first five stations were opened about 10 years ago, they should have learnt all the good things about other metros around the world and to build the best one and to take pride in it.
okido - July 09, 2004 - 08:47 AM
Post subject: What do U think of the Shanghai Metro?
chihuahua wrote:
Shanghai tube is of course cannot compare with those of London and HK, for the lack of experience and lack of years of development. However, it is improving in a fast speed considering the time range. And it is safe, no accident reported so far, which is the crucial to passengers.


No accident reported so far doesn't mean no accident at all. It's China!

Lack of years of development means they have the opportunity to learn from the experiences of other countries. That's actually an advantage.

Transfering in HK Metro is a swift and a PIA in Shanghai. Beware there is only ONE connecting station in Shanghai metro system. What a smart system design to put only one connecting/transfering point for two lines that both run thru the areas with highest population density?
tx2sh - July 09, 2004 - 11:18 AM
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at the hengshan station, they have those glass shields, but only on one side and only on part of the platform...not sure if that was just a test station or not.

i can say that getting rid of those stores on the (LONG) way to line 2 has helped tremendously with the crowding...i hope they restore the quick transfer point once this is all over.
jamesup - July 09, 2004 - 10:39 PM
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Shanghai metro.... Its an interesting one..

I only got here a week ago, and have a joyfull hour trip to my school on lines 3 and 1 via the railway station. As a native of london I was expecting big things from shanghai, afterall, the tube opened 150 years ago!!!!

Seems not....

While in london I mentaly budget 20 minutes for zone one or two trip (city center ish) and 5 minutes more for every change... In dispite going less distance, on faster trains journeys here take much longer. The trains (except for the lack of maps or information on board) seem great, far better than the tube, and its nice to get off a train without ducking (I'm 6'3") but the stations... they just built it on the cheap. The brand new line 3 shuts at nine (?!) and has ducts and cables stuck everywhere... It seems everything is 'off the shelf' from the turnstiles to the wall finishes... If you built a mass transit from IKEA this is what you would get.

And they will pay for it... While some stations in london have had little more than a lick of paint and technical updates in 100 years shanghai looks old and decrepid allready.

There is no unified brand for the system like london, where you know what to look for by the shape and colour of signs etc.
Not enough ticket machines
no week/month passess (allthough using my transit card in taxis is great, London should do that
The turnstiles dont regester your card fast enough... london you touch it down and bang - the gates open.
The turnstiles should be replaced with gates, faster flow and more luggage can be carried more easily.
There are not enough turnstiles
there are not enough escalators
Information is not provided in stations for how to connect to buses to continue your journey
markings on the floor of where the doors stop are a realy bad idea given shanghai manners, just encourages the crowds.
Distances are far, far far far far far far far to long between lines at transfers.
You have to pay twice to transfer!!

I could go on.

Theres no one thing that is a disaster, it could all be fixed and not a to great a cost, still easier, the new lines could learn these lessons. Shanghai should get some people and send them to Hong Kong, London (maby just the Jubilee line!) Paris, Tokyo etc and see what can be done. The cloesest to Shanghai I can think of is Bucharest... not a city I would think they consider there equal...

Now, whoes for a game of mornington cresent? 1978 rules ok?
Victorian - July 11, 2004 - 01:49 AM
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Jamesup - Welcome!!
PureXTC88 - Aug 18, 2004 - 10:52 AM
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The metro itself isn't that bad. But it is pretty sad when you have to hire someone to stand on the platform to tell people to let the passengers off before entering the metro. People race like rats to grab any available seat. It is everyone for themselves, push, shove, kick, do what you have to do get that sliver of space so that you can rest half your ass cheek and get off the very next stop.
Victorian - Sep 26, 2004 - 11:25 PM
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How do you like the new signage in Xu Jia Hui Station on Line No.1?

I think it's good step forward. It's more or less a copy of the Hong Kong one for the platform header box, you can tell which direction the train is going without having to find a metro map which is of non-existance on the platform.

The exits are clearly marked (at the exits) as to which department stores or landmarks they lead you to nowadays BUT you'll need a sense of direction to go to the correct exit and to check with the sign whether you've got it right or not.
tx2sh - Sep 28, 2004 - 03:15 PM
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i've noticed all of the new signs...they've even put up a sign to show where the handicapped people should go. what i have a question about is the new stops...are they finished yet? or are these signs just prep work for the future?
nch1976 - Sep 28, 2004 - 03:31 PM
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it's okay for me when i have to go out to pudong...other than that, i rarely use the metro. not enough stops and it doesn't take you out to gubei which would make it really great.
Victorian - Sep 29, 2004 - 01:04 AM
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tx2sh - The trains are actucally running to those new stations BUT you'll have to get off at Shanghai Railway Station, they are carrying out their test running for that extension - opening date, don't know. This is typical of the lack of attention to details again!!
Vika* - Oct 06, 2004 - 01:27 AM
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The convenience it brings is obvious, while it also brings inconvenience due to the early closing time. Line 2 closes so early and the Pearl Line even closes at around 9 pm! Line 1 is comparatively better, but if one wants to catch the last train from XinZhuang Station to Shanghai Railway Station, she still needs to grab the time. I always daydream that metro and Pearl Line would run 24 around-the-clock...(I know it's hardly possible, that's why I call it daydream~~)
lc2382 - Oct 06, 2004 - 05:33 AM
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The Metro in Shanghai is bright and safe at all times, unlike the ones in Boston, Washington D.C., and dare I mention, New York City, where you constantly have to avoid the homeless/people who shove a foam cup in your face and ask for money. It also accomodates a lot more people than the ones in less populated countries. Some of the problems you mentioned, especially the ones regarding the rudeness of the passengers, are problems that are generated by a humongous population. Imagine if your home country were as populated as China is, would people really act as 'civilized' as they do now? We need to be a little more patient and forgiving given the circumstances.
frenchlover1999 - Oct 17, 2004 - 01:39 PM
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Most of you people are out of your mind or dont know what you are talking about. Shanghai metro is actually quite good. Yes there is a long distance to transfer between line 1 & 2 (have you ever taken Paris subway?) and yes passengers behavior needs improvement, which is a more general problem. Otherwise infrastructure is top notch and improving fast. Fares are also very cheap.
Benoist_Shanghai - Oct 17, 2004 - 07:33 PM
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frenchlover, it is quite good. But, does it really make sense to compare Paris subway first built in 1900 and Shanghai subway designed and built during the last 5 years? Maybe there lies the fact that some people would have expected smoother transfer designs.

b.
Victorian - Oct 26, 2004 - 07:09 AM
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It's back to the original question on why Shanghai didn't learn from the rest of the world and to plan and design their metro properly before they start digging holes in the ground. All they have to do is to design and plan it properly and it would have been billions of RMB well spent.

I think they're building metro the way they're building the national railway where interchanges are not that important. For metro, you're talking about moving masses of people over a very short period of time, you're talking about moving 40 to 80 thousand people per line per direction per hour during peak hours. As the network expands, the more people will switch from other modes of transportation ot the metro, if they can't cope now, how could they cope when they put in 12 lines by 2010 and 18 lines by 2020.

With 18 million people, the design of the metro is not going to cope, e.g. 6-cars train, concourse interchange instead of cross-platform interchange, frequency of trains, etc. There're other considerations as well, like public transport interchange at stations, better signage, etc.

If the system is properly planned and design, it could actually change people's minds as to take the metro instead of driving/cabbing or taking the buses. If they provide park-and-ride facilities and public transport interchange at stations, people can park their cars at stations and ride the metro or take short bus/taxi trips to the stations and ride the metro. At the moment, people take long bus trips into the city, it's inefficient in terms of time/energy/environmental and jammed all the very limited roads.
serend - Oct 29, 2004 - 04:05 PM
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Oh man the whiners and losers...have these English teachers every traveled???

I just came back from Oxford this past August. To say London Subway is not even close to SH's will be a remarkable English understatement. More "character", maybe. But in terms of cleanliness and efficiency, there's not even any comparison.

I went to Tokyo twice over the lasy 3 years. Certainly not as impressive as SH's. My wife studied in Tokyo in the 90s, and she told me that the subway used to be cleaner. So I would give those who prefer Tokyo the benefits of doubt. But still...

So what make expats put down the SH subway like this? What does this prejudice say about us? Food for thoughts.

Benoist: you are right; it's unfair to compare the condition of equipment and interior. But what about safety and orderliness? I had a fight with a pickpocket at Gare de Nord (?) back in the summer of 2002, and nobody, repeat, nobody even bothered to call the police...what kind of management was THAT? What kind of social moral is THAT? You know I am a Francophile, but facts are facts.
ipac - Nov 16, 2004 - 04:39 PM
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Well, there is some thing we have to face that the metro as a public transportation still rans short of demonds. The Metro Line 1 loads about 600,000 persons a day and there are at least 400,000 persons waiting for the northern extention put into use. Just imagine though the northern extension put into service, 12 minutes a train must be very crowded. I bet you would not get a train in an hour if you keep gentlemanly when it is a rush hour. I think the most important thing is how to keep so many people safe and then how to improve the sevice. I believe the conditions will get better with the increasing quanlity of citizens and more metro line put into service. Of course, if we have only a 7,000,000 population like HK, the metro must be very satisfactory. So we need more time, it is changing day by day.
p800asia - Apr 25, 2005 - 04:15 AM
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ipac wrote:
Well, there is some thing we have to face that the metro as a public transportation still rans short of demonds. The Metro Line 1 loads about 600,000 persons a day and there are at least 400,000 persons waiting for the northern extention put into use. Just imagine though the northern extension put into service, 12 minutes a train must be very crowded. I bet you would not get a train in an hour if you keep gentlemanly when it is a rush hour. I think the most important thing is how to keep so many people safe and then how to improve the sevice. I believe the conditions will get better with the increasing quanlity of citizens and more metro line put into service. Of course, if we have only a 7,000,000 population like HK, the metro must be very satisfactory. So we need more time, it is changing day by day.


Hong Kong may have a much smaller population, but their subway daily ridership is 2.3million. The ridership in Shanghai is only 1.3million, according to xinhuanet. I don't understand why a system, being newer and handling fewer people, would end up to be a third class one, esp when so much money has been invested. As there are more lines and more people getting access to the system, I think the situation will only get even worse.
Toronto_expat - Apr 27, 2005 - 05:04 AM
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serend wrote:
I had a fight with a pickpocket at Gare de Nord (?) back in the summer of 2002, and nobody, repeat, nobody even bothered to call the police...what kind of management was THAT? What kind of social moral is THAT? You know I am a Francophile, but facts are facts.



Actually "metro crime" is a French film genre. Two most famous ones:

Robert Bresson: Pickpocket (1959);
Melville: Le Samouraï (1967).

Two films about noble criminals.

Use your imagination and empathy if you are robbed in Shanghai' s subway.
Caesara - Apr 27, 2005 - 08:03 AM
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My goodness! If serend was still here, he'd be all sorts of excited to see another film buff on the boards. Especially a francophile one!

However, if I'm robbed in the subway, I think I'd stick with a cross between annoyance at myself for not being careful enough, and annoyance at the bastard who took my stuff.
Toronto_expat - Apr 28, 2005 - 12:18 PM
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A film buff has to be a fancophile. After all, the French twice invented the art of cinema. France still remains the process centre for the films from Africa, Asia and Europe.

On the other hand, China actually has one of the most vibrant film cultures in the world.
Caesara - Apr 29, 2005 - 08:08 AM
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[serend would likely have agreed with both of those points, too. Maybe go search for his excellent film-review thread, if it's still here!]

Smile
blablabla - Apr 30, 2005 - 09:42 AM
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Question
gracesisley - Apr 30, 2005 - 03:37 PM
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sounds interesting
maxiewawa - June 13, 2005 - 07:35 PM
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At Longyang rd station, “先下后上，文明乘车“ is translated as "After first, Under On, Do riding with Civility".

I think that says it all.
busyexpat - June 16, 2005 - 03:43 AM
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i wish the drivers knew how to stop and start a train smoothly...well, at least it's a JUMP-start to my morning, along with a JERK-off in the evening Laughing
anti-streber - June 23, 2005 - 07:37 PM
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Totally agree with Ic2382.

Give Shanghai and China some time more.
- when people talk of the the tube in shanghai, they complain about the big crowd--too many people in china
- when china takes measures to control the growth of population, people complain about their infringing human rights.

really difficult to be a chinese!!

one fact which no one can ignore is: shanghai is already in a high speed of developing its infrastruture.

in addition, i personally think the underground in Rom is a nightmare, and the underground in paris is only a little bit better than the one in rom.
boredengineer - Mar 09, 2008 - 01:05 AM
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Bumping this old thread that I found interesting. Anybody who has been here since 2004 that can comment on how you feel the metro has improved or hasn't improved?
SnappySammy - Mar 09, 2008 - 01:28 PM
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The Shanghai Metro is very nice. The GZ Metro is not that nice, and its more confusing to use.
jzzzzzzz - Mar 10, 2008 - 08:58 AM
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The new Peoples Square interchange is much improved. It's still a long way from 1 to 2 but with the open concourse and more escalators it's pretty good. 1 and 8 are really close. I like the character of the new line 8 stations too.
sanjj - Mar 11, 2008 - 03:05 AM
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jzzzzzzz wrote:
The new Peoples Square interchange is much improved. It's still a long way from 1 to 2 but with the open concourse and more escalators it's pretty good. 1 and 8 are really close. I like the character of the new line 8 stations too.


Did you notice the gap between platform and the car? Someone gonna get tripped or crushed sonner or later.

Overall, SH's subway system is not bad, infrastructure per se.
8lrr8 - Mar 11, 2008 - 07:09 AM
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^ the largest gap isnt at people's square. it's at one of the new stations out in the 'burbs. it's so large it made the evening news.
jzzzzzzz - Mar 14, 2008 - 10:57 AM
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Is this on line 8? I'll check it next time.
8lrr8 - Mar 14, 2008 - 11:36 AM
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^ dunno. my gf mentioned it in passing after she saw it on the news a few wks ago.
jzzzzzzz - Mar 14, 2008 - 01:43 PM
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Perhaps they need a London Underground style 'Mind the gap' announcement.
yu888 - Mar 14, 2008 - 03:32 PM
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szwliew wrote:
Bumping this old thread that I found interesting. Anybody who has been here since 2004 that can comment on how you feel the metro has improved or hasn't improved?


MUCH improved.

More trains
More routes
More stations
Better Stations
Better signage
Better announcements
Better climate control (except line 1)

unfortunately also
More people riding the trains
More riff raff (beggars, card advertisers)

Overall, a much better system then before. Having used lines 1,2,3,4,5 & 8 so far, i am quite impressed.

And yes, the bad Gap seems to be somewhere on Line 8 where they obviously missed a few platforms.
samcy - Mar 14, 2008 - 08:34 PM
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I think it is great.

Special mention to the exchange whereby the passage ways are wide and bright. At least you feel secure, unlike those in europe or US whereby you do not know who is hiding at the corner ahead.

Clean too. I have not smell any urine yet.

One complaint though. I don't know why they position the ticket counter far from the entrance. Sometime you are at the metro entrance and need to walk 50 metres to get the ticket and walk back to the entrance.
Renovator - Mar 14, 2008 - 09:16 PM
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Can you imagine how clogged up Shanghai would be without the subway? We would have an impossible time getting from point A to B. I think the subway in Shanghai is wonderful most of the time, keeps improving, and I really appreciate being able to function in a city without an automobile.

In many other cities, even with a subway system, still need an automobile and then have to pay high parking fees, high costs for gasoline plus all of the additional costs of vehicle ownership and maintenance.

We are all very lucky to have the Shanghai subway system.
ThomasCaron - Mar 14, 2008 - 10:50 PM
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What a lot of whiners! Except for the inconvenient closing time the Metro is fast, clean and efficient. Can't deal with the crowds? Then what are you doing in Shanghai? I take a taxi as often as I take the subway, and it's not in the subway where I've had occasion to worry if I'd live to see my ride to the end.
sienna - Mar 14, 2008 - 11:27 PM
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ThomasCaron wrote:
What a lot of whiners! Except for the inconvenient closing time the Metro is fast, clean and efficient. Can't deal with the crowds? Then what are you doing in Shanghai? I take a taxi as often as I take the subway, and it's not in the subway where I've had occasion to worry if I'd live to see my ride to the end.


totally agree with thomas.

People who has been in Europe and see Shanghais metro they will laugh of joy,

london's superduper dirty and stinky, barcelonas is disgusting, so is italys compared to shanghai's, as well as paris. and tons of other metros are much worse. Shanghai must be one of the best and cleanest and hi-tech metros in the world. even NYC's metro looks kind of oldfashioned.
TheDudeAbides - Mar 14, 2008 - 11:46 PM
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Have to agree. It really is a decent system compared to those of a lot of other cities, and they're always adding/upgrading/improving things. Granted, being packed in like sardines isn't always much fun, but in China I don't think you could reasonably expect otherwise. And even under those circumstances, I think the folks running the show are doing a pretty good job.
Shangstar - Mar 15, 2008 - 12:29 AM
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ggtt5g
samcy - Mar 15, 2008 - 12:52 AM
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Kind of funny following this post.

The comments before 2008 are mostly negatives.
The posts in 2008 are all positives.

The lines are older as compared to 2004.
The stations are older too.

So, what are the changes?

I am new and has not been here long enough to experience the differences.
sanjj - Mar 15, 2008 - 07:06 AM
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samcy wrote:
Kind of funny following this post.

The comments before 2008 are mostly negatives.
The posts in 2008 are all positives.

The lines are older as compared to 2004.
The stations are older too.

So, what are the changes?

I am new and has not been here long enough to experience the differences.


Nice observation! Did you know that as of Jan 1, 2008, China legalized drugs? Could have some connection there? Smile

But seriously, people tend to complain when they're not used to the system, and once they know their way around it, things just become smooth for them. Not the metro per se, it's the minds.
xueli - Mar 15, 2008 - 03:12 PM
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I like the metro newtwork here and specially they fast and getting more line connected now. Just dont like the rude passenger eager to push in before you step out Sometimes. As long as I stay away from the rush hour.
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