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The Chinese work ethic

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Chingis

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Joined: Oct 02, 2005
Posts: 532

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Posted: Nov 04, 2009 - 05:22 PM

So you are against anyone who emigrates Zicca, or just Chinese? Seems like an odd thing to say

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Shangstar

Fire-eater

Joined: Feb 07, 2008
Posts: 2790
Location: Spitland
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Posted: Nov 04, 2009 - 05:24 PM

To be honest, I get Fwerrfs point about putting up with bad habits than violent crime. If someone gave me the option of living in a city where you might accidentally be spat on, and living in one where you might get knifed, I know which I would go for.

I would also happily say that the UK would be nothing without foreign investment. Same applies for the US. Without foreign countries buying up USD and GBP debt, where would we be?

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Marakanis
Fire-eater

Joined: Jan 11, 2009
Posts: 2944

Posted: Nov 04, 2009 - 05:33 PM

Shangstar wrote:

I can't find any crime statistics to back up what you're saying about Shanghai's relative safety to other areas. But that's a separate issue from hygiene since a disease can get you just as easily as a knife in the back. It just takes longer.

As to foreign investment. Yeah duh, America wouldn't be nearly as awesome as it is if it weren't for the incredible abundance of foreign influence from the day it began to now. Any person from a country who says that their country would be just as great as it is now if there had never been foreigners is a complete and utter moron.

One is named Fwerrf, the other Zoolander. They're also both apparently from China. Coincidence?

I hope so.

Chingis

Ranter

Joined: Oct 02, 2005
Posts: 532

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Posted: Nov 04, 2009 - 05:45 PM

I guess one of the underlying beliefs of nationalists and xenophobes alike is that their country would be better off, or at least no worse off, without outsiders. While most people probably agree that this is outdated, backwards even, what makes it most ludicrous in the case of China is that it has for centuries actively swallowed up entire cultures into it's harmonious embrace.
If one is spoon-fed the idea that ones kingdom is the centre of the world, and the epicentre of all that is good and civilising, then it seems this belief may take generations to change.

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leeas123

Seeker

Joined: Sep 18, 2008
Posts: 66

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Posted: Nov 04, 2009 - 06:36 PM

ziccawei wrote:

I hate these Chinese people that leave China and then try to tell me that they are American or Australian or whatever. NO you ain't **** American, you're Chinese and always will be.

So quick to turn their back on their country. Why?

what if that person left china or the country they were born when they were 3 or 7 years old? and after that, all their friends are non chinese, lifestyle is completely western, interests are western, and so on. basically, they dont have any association with all things chinese other than being born in china?

ziccawei

Post Roaster

Joined: Sep 12, 2008
Posts: 4556
Location: Ziccawei
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Posted: Nov 04, 2009 - 08:30 PM

Ok, when I can collect my thoughts I will explain further to your replies.

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findus

Fire-eater

Joined: Feb 03, 2004
Posts: 2523

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Posted: Nov 04, 2009 - 08:32 PM

This thread hurts my brain.

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leidelaohu

Board Lord

Joined: June 11, 2007
Posts: 5751

Status: Offline

Posted: Nov 04, 2009 - 09:07 PM

ziccawei wrote:

We have the opposite situation these days in the US ... people who grew up in Ohio or Arizona who decide they are African or Italian or Chinese or Egyptian priestesses of Isis because their great-great-great-grandparents were.

Most immigrants to the US in the past really wanted to become Americans tho. Currently that doesn't seem to be so true.

Andreas
Shanghai Royalty

Joined: Feb 27, 2004
Posts: 9140
Location: s/v Waratah

Posted: Nov 04, 2009 - 11:23 PM

zoolander wrote:

i dare all of you to asked that to all the chinese that with out Foreigners china will be nothing.. and lets see whats there reply will be.. good luck...

There's not much to dare. Even WITH the foreigners here you are not much to write home about. Go figure

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skyline5k
Board Legend

Joined: Sep 06, 2004
Posts: 10033
Location: is behind you with a knife O_O

Posted: Nov 05, 2009 - 06:54 AM

leidelaohu wrote:

ziccawei wrote:

Funny how we're Americans outside of the US, but we're Irish-American, Italian-American, Chinese-American... inside the US.

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fWerrF

Rocker

Joined: Aug 31, 2009
Posts: 733
Location: New York, Hong Kong, Shanghai, Bangkok
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Posted: Nov 05, 2009 - 07:44 AM

Chrisse wrote:

Okay, now you have used the example of North Korea one too many a time, it actually works more in Marakanis favor. First of all, as I have already said, North Korea sees more and more foreign involvement every passing year. They are now even starting to try out similar things to the Chinese Special Economic Zones, they need foreign investment.

Beers in North Korea... hm... they do have imported (foreign influence...) but now since the beginning of this century they have Taedonggang which is brewed in NK. This brewery is however (every single piece) brought over from the UK, it is the old Ushers Beer Brewery that was in use for over 180 years. Now if that is not foreign influence then I would be damned.

All the technology for building cars that the North Koreans have come from either Europe, China or Russia.

Chrisse, you are a nice and gentle ... girl? but you are talking about a different argument here.

The point here is: "exapts and their influence". not "anything non-domestic".

Marakanis's statement was: without expat, which means a country closes its door and not let in any foreign expats, its' ppl will not know anything, not even know what a car is.

you are arguing a different point, which is something like "a country can not develop fast & well without foreign-invented technology".
you are absolutely correct, but that's not the argument i disagree with.

there are some rural parts in the world where expats don't exist, those places still know what a car or phone is. the common knowledge/technology are property of human civilization, regardless who initially invented it.
no matter how isolated and self-enclosed a country might be, the ruling power will look at everything, and say "hmm we can not let our ppl see MTV, see paris hilton's burger ads, see USA election, but the cars, the phones, the wash machine and gas stove all looking pretty interesting and useful ..." then they would try to manufacture those cars/phones/stoves. that process does not necessarily involve expats coming in.
Think about it, china sent men to the space, those rocket/space science are top secret stuff other countries dcn't share. if china can figure that all out by itself, they will figure out cars, phones and everything else, on their own.

Anyhow, i think its time to close the case here. we prolly don't even disagree with eachother much.
i am fully aware that foreign inventions and technologies has assisted all countries (not just china) in the world to develop.
i just will never agree that without expats, chinese will not know what a car is and they will just slit eachother's throat for 5 rmb???
those condescending comments are only from ignorant ppl with lots of hatred.

Peace.

Last edited by fWerrF on Nov 05, 2009 - 11:52 AM; edited 1 time in total

fWerrF

Rocker

Joined: Aug 31, 2009
Posts: 733
Location: New York, Hong Kong, Shanghai, Bangkok
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Posted: Nov 05, 2009 - 07:59 AM

Marakanis wrote:

As to foreign investment. Yeah duh, America wouldn't be nearly as awesome as it is if it weren't for the incredible abundance of foreign influence from the day it began to now. Any person from a country who says that their country would be just as great as it is now if there had never been foreigners is a complete and utter moron.

Your original point was NOT "a country would not be as great as it is now if there has never been foreigns".
You said "chinese ppl would be slitting eachother's throat on the street, and will not know what a car is, if there has never been foreigns."

Those are two entirely different statements.

Feel free to keep up your lies and change stories Laughing

fWerrF

Rocker

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Posts: 733
Location: New York, Hong Kong, Shanghai, Bangkok
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Posted: Nov 05, 2009 - 08:08 AM

leeas123 wrote:

ziccawei wrote:

You are still chinese, and you should be proud to be.
of coz your nationality is american, so if used in that context then ur american.

now for ABC's, its more tricky. i can understand if they think they are amerian. and i can also understand if white men still see them as chinese Laughing

leeas123

Seeker

Joined: Sep 18, 2008
Posts: 66

Status: Offline

Posted: Nov 05, 2009 - 10:17 AM

that person would still be chinese because by he/she was born in china? if they left the country after 3,5 or 8 years, how does that make any difference if at the end of the day, they don't feel anything chinese apart from how they look and eating chinese food. that person should be proud of being british, thai, spanish, etc.

i dont understand how it is tricky. if you're ABC or CBC, i would see you as an american or canadian unless you tell me otherwise. it's that simple.

zoolander

Barker

Joined: July 01, 2008
Posts: 175

Status: Offline

Posted: Nov 05, 2009 - 10:41 AM

case closed... fWerrf wins....

fWerrF

Rocker

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Posted: Nov 05, 2009 - 11:09 AM

leeas123 wrote:

this type of subject, is about opinion, there is no right or wrong.
i am proud to be american, thats my nationality. i swore to protect the country and will be happy to do so when called upon, i pay taxes, i vote, i love and hate the coutry ...
i am also proud to be chinese, thats my heritage, my roots. the more i learn about its culture and history, the more it amazes me. i am proud of the progress it has made in the past 20 yrs, and i also love and hate the country...

if you, or anyone does not seem themselves as chinese, its perfectly ok. nothing wrong with it. you define your own identity. do not let anyone tell you otherwise.

leeas123 wrote:

... i dont understand how it is tricky. if you're ABC or CBC, i would see you as an american or canadian unless you tell me otherwise. it's that simple.

yes but not all white men see you as american or canadian, cuz your skin color is not white. get it?
thats why i used the word tricky, cuz neither side see you as their own.

leidelaohu

Board Lord

Joined: June 11, 2007
Posts: 5751

Status: Offline

Posted: Nov 05, 2009 - 11:37 AM

fWerrF wrote:

Think about it, china sent men to the space, those rocket/space science are top secret stuff other countries dcn't share. if china can figure that all out by itself, they will figure out cars, phones and everything else, on their own.

Fwerrf, you are mistaken. China did not figure out anything on their own. Loral and Hughes handed it all over in order to get cheap launches. China hasn't had an independent idea in twenty years. All they can do these days is copy the mistakes everyone else regrets making. Dumb.

But you are correct in a different way. MerryAnus has his digestive system hooked up backwards, food goes in his ass and shit comes out his mouth. Everything the foreigners brought to China was bought and paid for. China owns it. The people of Xuzhou and places like that paid a heavy price for this crap.

I know you love ostentatious garbage and apparently so do most chinese. Well, Jiang zemin and his cronies sold China into a two-tier society that they won't get away from now without another revolution. You've got a situation where the foreigners are taking advantage of Chinese people while the Chinese government and "businesses" are taking advantage of the foreigners. It's a rotten ugly lose-lose situation, caused by greed and an unwillingness to grow naturally. Really sad.

Hydro

Reacher

Joined: July 15, 2009
Posts: 234

Status: Offline

Posted: Nov 05, 2009 - 11:51 AM

please explain your concept of natural growth to me.

Chrisse

PopStar

Joined: Feb 25, 2009
Posts: 1146

Status: Offline

Posted: Nov 05, 2009 - 11:52 AM

fWerrF wrote:

Chrisse, you are a nice and gentle ... girl? but you are talking about a different argument here.

The point here is: exapts and their influence. not "anything non-domestic"

I am not a girl, I don't really understand what that has to do with anything... But since we are doing profiling I would say you are a 20-something spoiled besserwisser?

I was just calling you on your bad arguments. You also pick out one statement claim it being wrong (which you can't really prove either way) and then negate everything the other person ever said.

leidelaohu

Board Lord

Joined: June 11, 2007
Posts: 5751

Status: Offline

Posted: Nov 05, 2009 - 12:07 PM

Hydro wrote:

please explain your concept of natural growth to me.

Let me give you an example ...

Back in olden dayes, kids would save their pennies from their newspaper routes to buy a clunky 50 cc scooter. They'd learn to ride on that. As they got older and more experienced and earned more money they would graduate to a 250, then a 350, then a 500. By the time they could buy a 750 triple they had a lot of experience, understanding and skill.

Nowadays having a Harley or Ducati or Ferrari is the cool thing to do so people with no skill, no talent, and no comprehension walk into a dealer with a bundle of cash. They walk out twenty minutes later with a tool they don't understand and can't use but they think they are cool becasue they can park it in their garage. Maybe. With ten people standing around making hand motions and screaming "lai lai lai, wa !"

Look at the drivers around here : they own Maseratis but couldn't drive their way out of a wet paper bag.

That's a symptom of the entire society. I go into factories making all kinds of stuff where the "engineers" and workers don't have the vaguest, most basic understanding of what they are doing. And the management is nuts.

If China had had to grow organically, making products that her people needed, then I believe things would be a lot different. Deng first but Jiang even more decided to make China into a whore. What skills does a whore have ? Sucking money out of other people is about it, is it not ?

Don't get me wrong - some whores are nice and socially skilled. But they shouldn't claim they got where they are by their own efforts. And they certainly do not understand technology.

Last edited by leidelaohu on Nov 05, 2009 - 12:10 PM; edited 1 time in total

peterber

Talker

Joined: June 14, 2009
Posts: 121
Location: Shanghai
Status: Offline

Posted: Nov 05, 2009 - 12:09 PM

My country is so much better than your country - this whole string reminds me of the "My dad is so much stronger than your dad" arguments in first grade. How would China be without expats is a non-issue since it is completely unrealistic and purely based on conjecture. All this is is a childish mud-slinging fight in the sandbox. Grow up.

fWerrF

Rocker

Joined: Aug 31, 2009
Posts: 733
Location: New York, Hong Kong, Shanghai, Bangkok
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Posted: Nov 05, 2009 - 12:11 PM

leidelaohu wrote:

I know you love ostentatious garbage and apparently so do most chinese.

leidelaohu wrote:

Well, Jiang zemin and his cronies sold China into a two-tier society that they won't get away from now without another revolution. You've got a situation where the foreigners are taking advantage of Chinese people while the Chinese government and "businesses" are taking advantage of the foreigners. It's a rotten ugly lose-lose situation, caused by greed and an unwillingness to grow naturally. Really sad.

I def see where you are coming from.
I think the 2 tier society with its increasing gap, sh1t is prolly gonna hit the fan unless something is to be done soon.
though, at the mean time, i am not certain there was a better alternative.

leidelaohu

Board Lord

Joined: June 11, 2007
Posts: 5751

Status: Offline

Posted: Nov 05, 2009 - 12:11 PM

Peterber ^^ Did you just get your God license in the mail ?

Fwerrf wrote:

though, at the mean time, i am not certain there was a better alternative.

If you were here twenty years ago, China was not doing that badly. Lots of things were better than now. Some were worse. Mao, Zhou, those people wanted China to move forward but to do it in their own way. Yes, there were screwups but the US and England and Germnay have had just as many screwups.

If they had continued with that plan, things would be different. I would hope better but if wishes were horses we'd all be riding Very Happy

fWerrF

Rocker

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Posts: 733
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Posted: Nov 05, 2009 - 12:22 PM

Chrisse wrote:

... I am not a girl, I don't really understand what that has to do with anything... But since we are doing profiling I would say you are a 20-something spoiled besserwisser?

actually you misunderstood me. i meant no disrespect, i was not being sarcastic. i was not profiling you.
since that mara-anal-whatever person resorted to name calling and profanity quickly in a originally harmless debate, i thought maybe you are a girl cuz you have been civil. plus ur screen name threw me off a little too. thats all.

As for me, i am in my early 30's. not spoiled, i went to the states 20+ yrs ago with nothing stayed under other ppl's roof had nothing nice for about 10+ yrs. i wish i was spoiled like the other abc kids who had parents care and adore them. Razz

Chrisse wrote:

I was just calling you on your bad arguments. You also pick out one statement claim it being wrong (which you can't really prove either way) and then negate everything the other person ever said.

the other person made several false statements, i have already proved those wrong.
anyone with eyes and brain can see it clearly. that case has been closed.
i don't really believe you and i have much disagreement on the whole subject.