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bueno
Squeeker
Joined: Aug 27, 2005
Posts: 16
Status: Offline
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 Posted:
Nov 04, 2009 - 11:10 PM |
 
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| Post subject: How to dealing with this tenant? |
my friend has one apartment and she rent it out to one foreigner(the rent is above 10k). On the day they signed the contract, the tenant said he needs some time to wire the money to China. And my friend agreed that he can pay the most part of the deposit and rent later(He paid 1/3 of the rent+deposit on the day when they signed the contract). He promised the would pay the left part in few days, but he delayed for nearly 20 days. And for the second month, he delayed for nearly 2 weeks, for the third month, he delayed for more than half month, and it is the fourth month now, he still owns 1/3 of the third month's rent. He promised more than hundreds times that he would pay tomorrow every time when my friend called him, but he never keep his promise. And my friend also found out that he never pay any utilities after he moved in(around 3000rmb). He promised that he would pay off all of the utilities and last part of the rent, otherwise he would move out, but he failed to do it again. Now he said he did not have money and he refused to move out. And he wants to get all of his 2 month deposit back. According the contract, he broke the contract already, and my friend can keep all of the deposit to pay all of the bills. But the tenant does not agree. Because my friend paid one month rent for the agent's service fee, and after deduct all of the bills which left behind, there is a little money left, and my friend told him that she can give back the money to him, but he does not agree. The agent also came, and did the calculation, the policeman also came, but the tenant insistent that he did not have any money, and he can not pay the rent, and he he does not want to move out.
Any ideas about how to deal with this? the tenant did not want to move out, and my friend is very worried about that he might break the furniture. And she also wants to move into the apartment to stay there. Any advise will be appreciated. |
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dr3x320
LoopKicker
Joined: Nov 21, 2006
Posts: 883
Location: Boston/NYC/Zhang Hai/Goteborg
Status: Offline
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Nov 04, 2009 - 11:28 PM |
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You just got the short of the mexican quick draw.
heres a pov from owning investment properties of my own in SH.
First off you should of received all cash/monies paid upfront before signing the contracts of both parties.
Second you can evict tenants almost on a moments notice, pull some guanxi with the local authorities and you can have them moved out within a few days (regardless of nationalities). Cash end your probably not going to get any back, and you will get stuck w/ paying the utilities, or least someone will.
Future reference, your Chinese friend who rented to a foreigner probably thought just because he's a foreigner he will pay his dues and are trustworthy. Learning experience here.
And this is not only China, but Shanghai, if you own property here, all owners should have some experience or know what their doing before renting their property. This is another learning experience for you and/or your friend.
Conclusion
Ultimately, have them evicted in a few days time, most likely they don't have cash to pay the balance they owe you or the utilities, so you get to keep whatever they paid you 1/3 of 1 months rent, 3,000RMB in utilities depending on how it was setup, in a Chinese ID name or the foreigners passport, most likely if you want utilities to be turned on again or changed, the dues will have to be paid off before setting new accts back up.
Tell your friend to suck it up, cut your losses and adapt to the situation. |
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disconbobulated
Raver
Joined: Sep 26, 2007
Posts: 498
Status: Online!
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Nov 05, 2009 - 01:23 AM |
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SnappySammy
Board Buddha
Joined: Nov 01, 2007
Posts: 13001
Status: Offline
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Nov 05, 2009 - 03:20 AM |
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| dr3x320 wrote: |
You just got the short of the mexican quick draw.
heres a pov from owning investment properties of my own in SH.
First off you should of received all cash/monies paid upfront before signing the contracts of both parties.
Second you can evict tenants almost on a moments notice, pull some guanxi with the local authorities and you can have them moved out within a few days (regardless of nationalities). Cash end your probably not going to get any back, and you will get stuck w/ paying the utilities, or least someone will.
Future reference, your Chinese friend who rented to a foreigner probably thought just because he's a foreigner he will pay his dues and are trustworthy. Learning experience here.
And this is not only China, but Shanghai, if you own property here, all owners should have some experience or know what their doing before renting their property. This is another learning experience for you and/or your friend.
Conclusion
Ultimately, have them evicted in a few days time, most likely they don't have cash to pay the balance they owe you or the utilities, so you get to keep whatever they paid you 1/3 of 1 months rent, 3,000RMB in utilities depending on how it was setup, in a Chinese ID name or the foreigners passport, most likely if you want utilities to be turned on again or changed, the dues will have to be paid off before setting new accts back up.
Tell your friend to suck it up, cut your losses and adapt to the situation. |
What is a Mexican Quick Deaw and why is it Mexican!!!
Telling him what he should have done doesn.t help this situation....
Telling him to have them evicted may not be the best advice....
I would talk to the tennent and try to find out exactly why he csn't pay.... find out what he can pay and when he can pay it.... Then let him start paying on time and start paying off the old debt in whatever manor who worked out....
If he continues not to pay then lock him out...and get a baseball bat...If he tries to enter the apt...smack him with the bat....The worst that will happen if the tennent doesn't die is your friend will go to jail for 15 days....It's worth.....  |
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Yank My Doodle It's A Dandy |
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jay_dee
Reacher
Joined: Mar 22, 2009
Posts: 330
Status: Offline
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Nov 05, 2009 - 05:11 AM |
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Just change the lock when thay are not there, advise the BMO/Security staff.
They can get their belongings on a specific date/time, under supervision. |
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US Expat in Shanghai |
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fWerrF
Rocker
Joined: Aug 31, 2009
Posts: 731
Location: New York, Hong Kong, Shanghai, Bangkok
Status: Offline
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Nov 05, 2009 - 06:23 AM |
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Sorry to hear, interesting case though.
What happens in situation like this in Shanghai?
How fast can landlord acquire court order to evict a deadbeat tenant? do you even need a court order? |
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bueno
Squeeker
Joined: Aug 27, 2005
Posts: 16
Status: Offline
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Nov 05, 2009 - 07:59 AM |
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Basically he delayed payment from the day he signed the contract. And my friend gave him notice both in writing and by mobile message about the deadline, but he did not care, he still did not pay on time, he also promised to pay on time million times, but still did not pay. He also wrote note to promise if he could not pay before the deadline, he would move out, but he failed doing this again and again. My friend just found out that he said he spent a lot of money in hospital, he did not have any money to pay the rent, and he refused to move out. My friend offered to pay him the left part of the deposit back, but he still does not want to move, his excuse is that he does not have any money. What should my friend do? If she allows him stay there, the left part of deposit can only cover few days rent, but my friend still has to pay all utilities. Can she just kick him out according the notice which he signed to agree to do that? |
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AUSCNRUS
Talker
Joined: Feb 25, 2009
Posts: 107
Status: Offline
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Nov 05, 2009 - 08:26 AM |
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Having dealt with a similar situation myself the best advice I can give is change the locks and notify the police of the situation (if possible). If the deposit covers all your costs then arrange for the tenant to pick up his belongings at a specified time but make sure you have some other people with you in case the situation turns violent. To make things quicker I would pack his things for him and place them at the door just before he arrives, which means he does not need to enter the apartment and he is gone very quickly.
No matter how much your friend may hope that the tenant will finally pay the rent, he will not. |
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paulinshanghai
Reacher
Joined: Nov 13, 2008
Posts: 273
Location: Pudong and Puxi
Status: Offline
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Nov 05, 2009 - 08:30 AM |
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Just tell him to give the tenant a final notice of a few days before you kick him out.
Courts would take too long, just change the locks, or use a little guanxi
It seems to have gone on for way too long and he wont pay. |
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Get Mooooving into the year of the ox. www.orientnow.cn |
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lyonsandtigers
Talker
Joined: Dec 02, 2008
Posts: 82
Status: Offline
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Nov 05, 2009 - 08:48 AM |
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Surely the landlord needs to ask a Chinese real estate or contract lawyer?
Exactly this situation happened to me in Britain, and it took 6 months to follow the legal channels through and get the tenants out without risk of us being sued for impacting the thieving cows' human rights. At the time I thought how unfair it was, that if I missed a rent payment in Shanghai, my landlord would have me out of my flat quick as a flash.
Hopefully China's a bit less soft on thieving tenants than the UK, but your friend ought to check with a lawyer. If they say you can just change the locks on him, then do it. Does China have bailiffs? Get them in if so.
And DON'T give him the deposit back if you can help it. |
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dr3x320
LoopKicker
Joined: Nov 21, 2006
Posts: 883
Location: Boston/NYC/Zhang Hai/Goteborg
Status: Offline
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Nov 05, 2009 - 08:49 AM |
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This is funny, Chinese homeowners asking foreigners for eviction advice. How ironic. |
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Dermatologist / Official Expo 2010 Tickets / Air Tickets and Tours |
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Monsen
Seeker
Joined: Mar 28, 2009
Posts: 72
Status: Offline
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Nov 05, 2009 - 09:12 AM |
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Your friend made a mistake to "trust" someone he doesn't know. He shouldn't let him move in before she received the money or he should have kicked him out if he didnt pay on time with some due notice. Now your friend is learning this the hard way.
The ideal is that the keys and money exchange hands during the signing the contract so that no party is risking (that is the condition I always insist on when negotiating - If a party resist on this point probably is dishonest and good reason to walk away from the agreement).
Still your friend should get in (if it was smart enough to keep extra keys) - change the locks - move out his belongings and let tenant than file a complaint if he likes.
This is all IF the story you gave here is objective and IF the agreement with the tenant was not unclear and resulting in mess now. |
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jay_dee
Reacher
Joined: Mar 22, 2009
Posts: 330
Status: Offline
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Nov 05, 2009 - 09:41 AM |
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I stated the easiest method, change locks, now here's some other options.
Packing their stuff and putting outside the door is not advisable, hold inside apartment for proper safekeeping.
Provide 3-5 day notice as to when property will be removed for them to pickup - under supervision.
The owner may not be able to hold tenants personal property indefinately for ransom of monies owed, it's better to be rid of them and eat the loss.
The owner can tell the BMO to shut off elect, water, gas, cable TV, internet and phone remotely from the apartment.
The owner can call local police to verify whether the tenant has registered with that address, if not then is in violation - out.
The police can verify if VISA is current, if not is in violation - out.
[This is a double-edged sword as the owner rented out to a foreigner - and could be fined.]
The owner should have a work address and phone number (on contract) to call and check tenant employment status, police can also verify the VISA/RP/FEC.
Police can force the tenant to vacate immediately without a court order as I've seen it done.
The owner should have all related documents to proove what's owed.
The tenant cannot refuse to leave when asked/instructed (in front of police).
If tenant claims to have no money, then a call to the tenants Embassy is in order as being a foreigner and destitute is not advisable in China - out.
No sad stories, no tears, no excuses, no promises, pack up and get out.
There are deadbeats in and from every country. |
_________________
US Expat in Shanghai
Last edited by jay_dee on Nov 05, 2009 - 09:59 AM; edited 3 times in total |
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DN-1970
Seeker
Joined: May 22, 2009
Posts: 56
Status: Offline
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Nov 05, 2009 - 09:52 AM |
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| disconbobulated wrote: |
| Is he French? |
I was thinking the same:-) |
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mat
Shanghai Royalty
Joined: Apr 26, 2004
Posts: 9030
Location: Loooooooooooose!
Status: Offline
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Nov 05, 2009 - 10:12 AM |
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Publish his name and details up here. Someone will know the low-life. |
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www.justbeer.cn Get a Blondie into you! |
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Tiny_year
Seeker
Joined: Nov 01, 2009
Posts: 61
Status: Offline
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Nov 05, 2009 - 10:51 AM |
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| DN-1970 wrote: |
| disconbobulated wrote: |
| Is he French? |
I was thinking the same:-) |
Can i ask why?  |
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jasonnoguchi
LoopKicker
Joined: Mar 05, 2005
Posts: 905
Location: From Singapore
Status: Offline
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Nov 05, 2009 - 10:52 AM |
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crivens200
LoopKicker
Joined: Nov 05, 2007
Posts: 930
Status: Offline
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Nov 05, 2009 - 02:27 PM |
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What's the other side of the story?
I'll bet any money that the tenant has a real grievance and is not paying because the landlord hasn't fixed the air con or he lives on the 46th floor and the lift has been broken for 3 months or the toilet hasn't been fixed or something. |
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ziccawei
Post Roaster
Joined: Sep 12, 2008
Posts: 4556
Location: Ziccawei
Status: Offline
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Nov 05, 2009 - 03:07 PM |
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| dr3x320 wrote: |
| This is funny, Chinese homeowners asking foreigners for eviction advice. How ironic. |
Yeah it's hilarious!!
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Jackie Onnassis on acid. |
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bueno
Squeeker
Joined: Aug 27, 2005
Posts: 16
Status: Offline
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Nov 05, 2009 - 06:33 PM |
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Actually there is no problems for the apartment. When the tenant just moved in, my friend bought new bedding for him after she knew that he did not have. And my friend thinks he is same age as her son, and he is alone in Shanghai. Later when the tenant asked my friend to buy a rice cooker, my friend also did that. Because the previous German tenant is very good, my friend kept very good relationship with him, and they still keep in touch. My friend also wants to keep good relationship with this tenant, that was why she did not push him to pay from beginning. According the contract, the tenant break the contract already, but he refused to pay or move out. His excuse is he just spent a lot of money for his hospital bill(he never told my friend before about the hosipital, he just promised to pay tomorrow, but never pay), he did not have any money, he did not have money to pay hotel or rent another small apartment. My friend offered to give the left part of deposit back after deduct all bills which were left behind, the agent fee which she paid and penalty of late payment. But he does not agree, he said no penalty, my friend agreed that too, then he still does not agree. Actually deduct all bills which are not paid by him, there is only a little money left.
What my friend should do now. She wants to bear all lose by herself and pay back all of the deposit(it means she needs to bear the rent which were not paid for last month, for this month, and for all bills too) But from the tenant's attitude, even she give him money, he still does not want to move. My friend can not change the key, because the tenant is there day and night and his friend also moved in too. And if she helps him to move, the tenant might report his valuable items missing as he does not want to move out. Policemen came twice, but they also can not help. They said it is obviously that the tenant break the contract, but they can not help my friend kick him out, she needs to bring him to court. But if she take legal process, it might take half year, it means the tenant might stay there for half year for free. I just made joke with my friend that maybe the best way is she pays 2 month penalty to him to invite him out. |
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hawks
Barker
Joined: Jan 25, 2008
Posts: 125
Status: Offline
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Nov 05, 2009 - 07:14 PM |
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Have all of the utilities turned off. |
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AUSCNRUS
Talker
Joined: Feb 25, 2009
Posts: 107
Status: Offline
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Nov 05, 2009 - 08:37 PM |
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| crivens200 wrote: |
What's the other side of the story?
I'll bet any money that the tenant has a real grievance and is not paying because the landlord hasn't fixed the air con or he lives on the 46th floor and the lift has been broken for 3 months or the toilet hasn't been fixed or something. |
Why should there be "the other side of the story". Believe it or not but there are more shitehead tenants than there are shitehead landlords. Your example above of the "46th floor" lift be broken would not be a good reason not to pay the rent, the other above examples are also not good enough. If the above examples were problems then a sensible tenant would just hire somebody to fix the problems and then deduct it from the rental amount. |
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Chrisse
PopStar
Joined: Feb 25, 2009
Posts: 1146
Status: Offline
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Nov 05, 2009 - 08:42 PM |
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| jay_dee wrote: |
| The owner can tell the BMO to shut off elect, water, gas, cable TV, internet and phone remotely from the apartment. |
Start by doing this... Without any of that it is gonna be quite difficult to live there. Then tell the management to keep a look out for you if he leaves the place, then get in there and change locks ASAP. |
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Klick
Ranter
Joined: Jan 04, 2009
Posts: 503
Location: pupudongadong
Status: Offline
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Nov 05, 2009 - 08:52 PM |
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| AUSCNRUS wrote: |
| Your example above of the "46th floor" lift be broken would not be a good reason not to pay the rent, the other above examples are also not good enough. If the above examples were problems then a sensible tenant would just hire somebody to fix the problems and then deduct it from the rental amount. |
It is a tenants responsibility to front the cost of fixing the lift for the entire building, is it? |
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AUSCNRUS
Talker
Joined: Feb 25, 2009
Posts: 107
Status: Offline
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Nov 05, 2009 - 09:21 PM |
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^ Klick, of course not. I was referring to the other examples that the tenant could get fixed and deduct from rent. The lift has nothing to do with not paying the rent and is not the landlords problem, instead is a building management's problem. |
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