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playmaker
Barker
Joined: Apr 21, 2006
Posts: 170
Status: Offline
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June 13, 2006 - 09:31 PM |
 
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| Post subject: Homeschooling and christianity - what's the connection ? |
I believe there are many expats kids may be needing homeschooling in China due to the extreme expensive schools fees. But they may not be participating due to some strong connection in Christian teachings in the homeschool programs.
Is there a CODE necessary exists between homeschooling and education ? I would be glad to get some honest answers regarding this. I was going through in one of the websites for homeschoolers in shanghai, and was suprised to know that one of the questions asked was " Are you willing to put your children through Christian Curriculum ? " What is this all about...?
I believe in god, and sincerely respect all religions, faith, but i definately will not part away my basic humanities for anyone who thinks that only a certain religion deserves to have education.
Let is be, as how one believes to coordinate a homeschool for expat, but my only question is " WHAT HAS HOMESCHOOLING GOT TO DO WITH CHRISTIANITY or for that, what has homeschooling got to do with any religion believes ???? ITS EDUCATION FOR GOD SAKE ? |
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frenchlover1999
Shanghai Royalty
Joined: Sep 18, 2004
Posts: 8729
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June 13, 2006 - 09:35 PM |
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Education is the ideal channel for indoctrination. Sects typically operate that way. They target weak people (parents who cant afford school fees, their children) and pretend to help them (by providing an education). This is the link. |
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That was no shark. That was my personal submarine. But enough of this polite conversation. What is the purpose of your visit? |
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GC
The Ginger Prince
Joined: Dec 01, 2003
Posts: 22183
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June 13, 2006 - 09:37 PM |
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It depends whether its religious instruction or religious education. I think its good to learn briefly about your own religion at school as well as that of others but religious instruction should be left to parents or the church.
You might find that some parents adopt the policy of many churches in that if you give them a child of 6 they will give you **********(replace with whatever religion) for life and they dont want a balanced educational programme messing with this. |
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You turned on the lights, Fuelled U boats by night, That |
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playmaker
Barker
Joined: Apr 21, 2006
Posts: 170
Status: Offline
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June 13, 2006 - 09:45 PM |
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frenchlover - what u said makes a lot of sense.
I think, people can learn religion in their own homes/temples/churches/mosques, etc. I was educated in a christian brothers school, but the students and teachers were from all religions, muslims, hindus, buddhists, christians,etc. But there was no necessary requirements that you need to follow the christian curriculum, as the christian teaching was only once a week (45 minutes), and simultaneously the non-christians would go for their own religion teaching at that same time. And after that, all students get back to classes to resume their normal education. |
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drummissimo
LoopKicker
Joined: Apr 24, 2006
Posts: 942
Location: French Concession
Status: Offline
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| Posted:
June 13, 2006 - 09:46 PM |
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| Post subject: Re: Homeschooling and christianity - what's the connection ? |
| playmaker wrote: |
| I believe there are many expats kids may be needing homeschooling in China due to the extreme expensive schools fees. |
I hope that most parents will not sacrifice their kids education for saving a few bucks. Shanghai's education is not any more expensive than a private education anywhere else in the world.
Having said that I fully agree with you that education and religion should be kept seperated, as are church and state! I am fully against the influence of religion on the curriculum tought in schools.
Religion too often conflicts with the educational goal of creating self-thinking and critical individuals!!! |
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Truth, after all, wears a different face to everybody, and it would be too tedious to wait till all were agreed. |
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GC
The Ginger Prince
Joined: Dec 01, 2003
Posts: 22183
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June 13, 2006 - 09:55 PM |
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| playmaker wrote: |
frenchlover - what u said makes a lot of sense.
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You turned on the lights, Fuelled U boats by night, That |
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MIexpat
Reacher
Joined: July 30, 2004
Posts: 350
Location: in transit...
Status: Offline
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| Posted:
June 13, 2006 - 10:14 PM |
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| Post subject: Re: Homeschooling and christianity - what's the connection ? |
| playmaker wrote: |
| Let is be, as how one believes to coordinate a homeschool for expat, but my only question is " WHAT HAS HOMESCHOOLING GOT TO DO WITH CHRISTIANITY or for that, what has homeschooling got to do with any religion believes ???? ITS EDUCATION FOR GOD SAKE ? |
Yes it is education and it is also PERSONAL CHOICE!!
Homeschooling has NOTHING to do with religion and EVERYTHING to do with religion - that is the great part of it- you are free to educate YOUR child(ren) as YOU see best for YOUR child(ren)
for you to freak out about someone else's choice is a wee bit out of line
what is wrong with a religious curriculum at home? how is it any different than a Catholic/Christian/Jewish/<insert regligion> school?
in the States my son was homeschooled because it was the BEST choice for HIM and it is none of YOUR business if my curriculum was religious or not...
as to the Shanghai group using a religious homeschooling curriculum they are doing nothing different than Concordia, BISS, Dulwich, SAS, SCIS and the rest - they are using a curriculum THEY believe best and if one believes the particular curriculum is inappropriate then the CHOICE is to not attend
who are you to judge someone else's choice? |
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drummissimo
LoopKicker
Joined: Apr 24, 2006
Posts: 942
Location: French Concession
Status: Offline
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June 13, 2006 - 10:24 PM |
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miexpat, noone was trying to offend you! the way you educate your child is your problem (or that of your children for that matter) and we are not to critizise your decision! however, we express our opinion in this forum, which as a matter of fact should not be yours to critizise! if you want to state your own opinion that is welcomed here, but there is no place for hatred and offenses! |
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Truth, after all, wears a different face to everybody, and it would be too tedious to wait till all were agreed. |
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drummissimo
LoopKicker
Joined: Apr 24, 2006
Posts: 942
Location: French Concession
Status: Offline
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June 13, 2006 - 10:25 PM |
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btw: religion is a tool to control a scociety! now that you are in a godless country you can finally free your mind!!! |
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Truth, after all, wears a different face to everybody, and it would be too tedious to wait till all were agreed. |
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MIexpat
Reacher
Joined: July 30, 2004
Posts: 350
Location: in transit...
Status: Offline
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| Posted:
June 13, 2006 - 11:26 PM |
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| Post subject: Re: Homeschooling and christianity - what's the connection ? |
| playmaker wrote: |
| WHAT HAS HOMESCHOOLING GOT TO DO WITH CHRISTIANITY or for that, what has homeschooling got to do with any religion believes ???? ITS EDUCATION FOR GOD SAKE ? |
hatred and offense? hhmmm...
naa none here - only answering the question... 
and it is interesting you assume I am religious and in need of mind-freeing... |
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psychodrew
Reacher
Joined: July 31, 2003
Posts: 236
Location: Shanghai
Status: Offline
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June 14, 2006 - 08:06 AM |
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The grassroots homeschooling network in America was started by Christian people who were sick of schools that they felt neglected morality and religion. They were (are) also sick of low quality public schools and concerned about the influence of immoral behavior in public schools. Having gone through the American public school system BEFORE the birth of the modern homeschooling network, I can say that their concerns were (are) completely justified.
That said, I had a very close friend in university who was homeschooled using a non-religious curriculum. She graduate third or fourth at rather competitive private school and was about as secular as you get.
I could get into in argument about the merits of religion, but given the hostile responses to the initial question, I cannot foresee a mature, open discussion. |
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fox007
Rocker
Joined: Apr 06, 2005
Posts: 624
Location: Minhang, Shanghai
Status: Offline
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June 14, 2006 - 09:31 AM |
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you are free to educate YOUR child(ren) as YOU see best for YOUR child(ren) ...
...who are you to judge someone else's choice? |
Free but certainly not totally free and it it the right and also the duty of your neighbours, friends, relatives or anyone to have an opinion (but nobody talk about judgment) and also a possibility to report to the authorities if what you think is right for your children is in fact not.
Just as an exemple, do you know that with a such opinion every 15 seconds a little girl undergo female genital mutilation under the name of certain traditions and/or under the name of God (which is a mistake anyway) ? If your next door neighbour mutilate his daughter, should we accept it to respect his freedom. I have just one answer for that : No way !
I share the opinion of Frenchlover about homeschooling, another problem with sects (compared to religious schools) is that generally they do not officially say : "we are sect x or sect y and I want to help you to raise your kids, we provide cheap education and want to share with your family our sect values" . When you find out, especially if you are in a weak situation, it is often late and very few countries have strong laws again sects unfortunately.
Things must be announced very clearly from the beginning and you should know what to expect and then you decide if it is acceptable or not. |
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MIexpat
Reacher
Joined: July 30, 2004
Posts: 350
Location: in transit...
Status: Offline
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| Posted:
June 14, 2006 - 09:49 AM |
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| fox007 wrote: |
| Quote: |
you are free to educate YOUR child(ren) as YOU see best for YOUR child(ren) ...
...who are you to judge someone else's choice? |
Free but certainly not totally free and it it the right and also the duty of your neighbours, friends, relatives or anyone to have an opinion (but nobody talk about judgment) and also a possibility to report to the authorities if what you think is right for your children is in fact not.
Just as an exemple, do you know that with a such opinion every 15 seconds a little girl undergo female genital mutilation under the name of certain traditions and/or under the name of God (which is a mistake anyway) ? If your next door neighbour mutilate his daughter, should we accept it to respect his freedom. I have just one answer for that : No way !
I share the opinion of Frenchlover about homeschooling, another problem with sects (compared to religious schools) is that generally they do not officially say : "we are sect x or sect y and I want to help you to raise your kids, we provide cheap education and want to share with your family our sect values" . When you find out, especially if you are in a weak situation, it is often late and very few countries have strong laws again sects unfortunately.
Things must be announced very clearly from the beginning and you should know what to expect and then you decide if it is acceptable or not. |
WHAT?!? You are mixing arguments here...
female genital mutilation - what does it have to do with the topic of homeschooling? Do you go out crusading against circumcision of boys? Isn't that genital mutilation? By your reasoning the authorities should be called in every time an infant's foreskin is removed...
the notion of "sects" - I seriously hope you do not believe homeschooling equates with sectarianism
yes I agree things should be announced clearly from the beginning and I believe most if not all families deciding to homeschool do extensive research and put a great deal of thought into their decision
as to "free but certainly not totally free" - I am not even going to go there...
but again you are mixing issues and do please create a new thread for each if you feel strongly - I am sure they will make for interesting dialogue |
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ShanghaiScot
Rocker
Joined: June 06, 2006
Posts: 715
Location: Pudong and proud of it ?????????????????
Status: Offline
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June 14, 2006 - 10:02 AM |
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God knows what the answer to this question is?
And I am not even religious |
_________________
You can try to drink my tiger beer but you cannot take my FREEDOM |
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fox007
Rocker
Joined: Apr 06, 2005
Posts: 624
Location: Minhang, Shanghai
Status: Offline
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| Posted:
June 14, 2006 - 10:02 AM |
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Female genital mutilation has to do with :
| Quote: |
| you are free to educate YOUR child(ren) as YOU see best for YOUR child(ren) ......who are you to judge someone else's choice? |
sects has to do with a previous reply from Frenchlover :
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| Education is the ideal channel for indoctrination. Sects typically operate that way. |
| Quote: |
| I am not even going to go there... |
it is probably best that way
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but again you are mixing issues and do please create a new thread for each if you feel strongly - I am sure they will make for interesting dialogue
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indeed, even I am not concerned. As I said, it was an EXEMPLE but I find it is very important and not related to Shanghai/China. There are other place other time to discuss this matter. |
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benkloepfer
PopStar
Joined: Sep 02, 2004
Posts: 1041
Status: Offline
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June 14, 2006 - 11:08 AM |
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Sorry fox, I'd like to side with your theory but these two topics are too far apart.
-female circumcision is physical abuse
-brainwashing religious dogma is mental abuse
Lets keep that separate.
As for home schooling, while some parents may do an excellent job of educating their children at home, in general I think it is a bad idea because it limits the stimuli on your child's hungry brain.
OK, in some cases it is necessary, for example geographic isolation, inadequate public schools and no access to private schools, health reasons etc...
But in most normal cases there is no need for home schooling. Despite the poor quality of education in many public schools, you can still challenge your child to educate himself outside of class. Meanwhile the experiences he gathers from attending public school will open his eyes to see a broader world.
Many home schooling parents think they are doing the best for their child and probably have a very enlightened and enriching curriculum. But school isn't just about what you learn in books, its also about learning to deal with other people, especially those people who are very different from you (and even more different from your parents).
In my opinion, anyone who home schools their children is putting blinders on them. The parents may be very good teachers but they can only teach what they know.
Then when you have outside teachers coming to your home and teaching your kids it improves the situation as far as the exposure to different ideas is concerned. But like frenchlover pointed out, some of these people have their own political and religious agendas. |
Last edited by benkloepfer on June 14, 2006 - 01:02 PM; edited 1 time in total |
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Kiwi
Post Boaster
Joined: May 07, 2003
Posts: 4972
Status: Offline
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| Posted:
June 14, 2006 - 12:26 PM |
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| Post subject: Re: Homeschooling and christianity - what's the connection ? |
| MIexpat wrote: |
Yes it is education and it is also PERSONAL CHOICE!!
Homeschooling has NOTHING to do with religion and EVERYTHING to do with religion - that is the great part of it- you are free to educate YOUR child(ren) as YOU see best for YOUR child(ren)
for you to freak out about someone else's choice is a wee bit out of line |
Yes, about choice as you say. But 9 times out of 10 it is all about the parents and their choices, with the children merely a canvas for parental narcissism. |
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Always blow on the pie |
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benkloepfer
PopStar
Joined: Sep 02, 2004
Posts: 1041
Status: Offline
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June 14, 2006 - 01:03 PM |
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MIexpat
Reacher
Joined: July 30, 2004
Posts: 350
Location: in transit...
Status: Offline
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| Posted:
June 14, 2006 - 03:39 PM |
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| Post subject: Re: Homeschooling and christianity - what's the connection ? |
| Kiwi wrote: |
| But 9 times out of 10 it is all about the parents and their choices, with the children merely a canvas for parental narcissism. |
WOW! Parental narcissism eh? that is a new one on me and I have heard many a misinformed claim against homeschooling. Tell me Kiwi do you actually even know (as in interact regularly with on a personal basis) 10 families who homeschool? And anyone who knows anything about statistics knows you would need a rather large sample size to accurately state a meaningful “9 times out of 10” ratio...  |
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StMichael
Rocker
Joined: Feb 19, 2005
Posts: 783
Location: Qibao, Shanghai
Status: Offline
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June 14, 2006 - 08:41 PM |
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Kiwi
Post Boaster
Joined: May 07, 2003
Posts: 4972
Status: Offline
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| Posted:
June 14, 2006 - 09:22 PM |
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| MIexpat wrote: |
| Kiwi wrote: |
| But 9 times out of 10 it is all about the parents and their choices, with the children merely a canvas for parental narcissism. |
WOW! Parental narcissism eh? that is a new one on me and I have heard many a misinformed claim against homeschooling. Tell me Kiwi do you actually even know (as in interact regularly with on a personal basis) 10 families who homeschool? And anyone who knows anything about statistics knows you would need a rather large sample size to accurately state a meaningful “9 times out of 10” ratio... |
Do I even know 10 families who homeschool? Probably not any more. However during the 10 years I was home schooled I could easily have found you 10 home schooling families. When I was a child most of my friends were home schooled.
In the vast majority of cases they were home schooled because the parents were heavily into education and child development, because the parents had alternative philosophies (communes, anti-establishment, anti-discipline, etc.), or because the parents were religious (generally to a nutty degree). It rarely had anything much to do with the children. There were lots of different scenarios, from hippy-style education where the kids were left on their own and learned nothing much at all, to hot-housing type education where the kids were under huge pressure and regularly got wheeled out to perform like little chimps. What all the scenarios shared in common was that, at the end of the day, it was all about the parents.
Now I guess bringing up children is always about the parents when you really get down to it. Children simply don't have much of a voice, and even if they did they lack the maturity to know what is best for themselves. However, dragging your kids out of school and putting them entirely under parental influence is something any sane parent should think very very carefully about. Think about it sober. Think about it drunk. Then sleep on it and think some more.
The idea of home-schooling has obvious mummy-knows-best appeal. But is it really worth isolating your children from their peers because of what YOU believe in? Is it really healthy for the child's parent and the child's teacher to be one and the same? Is it healthy for your child to spend so much time within the family when their peers are learning at least a little about how the outside world works? Are you seriously qualified to teach all subjects? Have you got any hope of providing much beyond a follow-the-textbook education? Can a follow-the-textbook education provide the same learning opportunities as a classroom (where students are exposed to and get to learn from others who perform better, worse, or simply differently to themselves)? How well are you going to deal with it when your child grows up and the ungrateful little sh*t suggests that home-schooling wasn't entirely pancakes and roses? |
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Always blow on the pie |
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StMichael
Rocker
Joined: Feb 19, 2005
Posts: 783
Location: Qibao, Shanghai
Status: Offline
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| Posted:
June 14, 2006 - 09:31 PM |
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You are right, Kiwi - the parents choose the schools for their children. In the case of the homeschool parents, they choose to homeschool. In the case of parents in my school, they choose a highly rigorous curriculum. In the case of parents in other schools, its prestige, national curriculum, etc. Whether the child is truly "not exposed" is still debatable without empirical data. So far both sides quoted anedoctal datas (the success children and the failure children).
I wrote an entry on this myself, in response to a question asked by a client: http://senseimichael.com/2006/06/05/why-is-paul-not-in-shanghai-singap ore-international-school/ |
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Michael Chan www.senseimichael.com |
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frenchlover1999
Shanghai Royalty
Joined: Sep 18, 2004
Posts: 8729
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| Posted:
June 14, 2006 - 10:38 PM |
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| Quote: |
female genital mutilation - what does it have to do with the topic of homeschooling? Do you go out crusading against circumcision of boys? Isn't that genital mutilation? By your reasoning the authorities should be called in every time an infant's foreskin is removed...
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They should. The only reason circumcision of boys is accepted is that it is backed by a very powerful sect... |
_________________
That was no shark. That was my personal submarine. But enough of this polite conversation. What is the purpose of your visit? |
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bougie
Board Buddha
Joined: Nov 20, 2004
Posts: 14629
Location: Wuhan Hubei China
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June 14, 2006 - 11:06 PM |
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Home schooling, privte school, puiblic school ....
It's still at home that strong values and exposure to various religions should take place. Being Catholic (albeit not a very strong practicing one) I think various topics of religion should be raised, debated, and discussed at home. I remember very clearly my dad (god rest his soul) exaplined to me that the good book was just that ... a good book. Then, as I grew older I didn't take much to what the nun / teacher was talking about perhaps because she looked like she was ridden over by a bus. But she was good target practice for my eraser target practice. Then, the local priests and teachers were all bent, closet gays or freaks.
Where was I going with this anyway ???? |
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bougie
Board Buddha
Joined: Nov 20, 2004
Posts: 14629
Location: Wuhan Hubei China
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June 14, 2006 - 11:11 PM |
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Oh yes kids ....
Well, I surely won't get my daughters newteured (circumsized). Also, I'll be less afraid to leave them with a middle aged catholic priest cause 9 times out of 10 he's a closet gay freak.
I won't impose stupid meningless religion on them, I'll encourage them to have an open mind, treat all people fairly, and don't judge people by the race, colour or religion. Then when she's old enough I'll tell her that all religions are crap. |
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