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Shangstar
Fire-eater
Joined: Feb 07, 2008
Posts: 2783
Location: Spitland
Status: Offline
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 Posted:
June 21, 2009 - 10:43 PM |
 
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| Post subject: China's Copycars |
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edbreejen
Ranter
Joined: Apr 24, 2003
Posts: 544
Location: Shanghai, Zhongshan park area
Status: Offline
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June 21, 2009 - 11:10 PM |
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Funny detail: the Geely guy is even proud to be a copycat. Another one: there seem to be 3 different brands having their own Smart rip-off + 1 with a moped engine.
Last month met a guy who just set-up the Shanghai office of their European disign bureau. He arrived 3 months before and concluded that it would be a pretty hard job to get the office producing something useful. Main lacking characteristic in ALL (not some) people he interviewed: autonomous thinking. |
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Moroes
Reacher
Joined: Jan 16, 2009
Posts: 316
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June 21, 2009 - 11:50 PM |
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So do we find these fake cars at qi pu lu?
I'd like to see them use the Geely GE to pick up all the important people during the expo at 2010. Show that China has good copy cars lol. |
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Rumpelstiltskin
PopStar
Joined: May 13, 2009
Posts: 1293
Status: Offline
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June 22, 2009 - 12:00 AM |
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I think the Rolls royce copy is cute. It's not like someone buys Geely by mistake instead of Rolls... |
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shinrai
Talker
Joined: Nov 07, 2008
Posts: 95
Status: Offline
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June 22, 2009 - 02:56 AM |
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| Post subject: Re: China's Copycars |
| Shangstar wrote: |
These people have no shame whatsoever. Good to hear Rolls Royce are taking legal action. But then again, in a country where lateral thinking (shall we say) is not permitted, what can these robots do? |
+1. Good post.
'was at the frankfurt show when one of the chinese smart car knockoffs showed up. they were told to got home (go back!).
it's incredible how they don't think about the repercussions about copying things and how the rest of the world will not accept this bullsh1t. what will happen when people can't afford anything in china when exports plummet b/c mfg moves to elsewhere (India)? a sinking ship! |
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Renovator
SuperStar
Joined: Apr 18, 2007
Posts: 1429
Location: Century Park & MA,USA
Status: Offline
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June 22, 2009 - 05:35 AM |
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| Post subject: Re: China's Copycars |
| shinrai wrote: |
| Shangstar wrote: |
These people have no shame whatsoever. Good to hear Rolls Royce are taking legal action. But then again, in a country where lateral thinking (shall we say) is not permitted, what can these robots do? |
+1. Good post.
what will happen when people can't afford anything in china when exports plummet b/c mfg moves to elsewhere (India)? a sinking ship! |
Yes, manufacturing has been moving to countries outside of China, but India? Except for handicrafts and a few specialized items manufacturing in India has always been a disaster and there is no manufacturing turn around there in sight which is why the Indian manufacturers are buying so much from Chinese manufacturing companies. If it can be made by hand, then India is usually OK. If by machine, then 96% of the time it makes no sense to even try. |
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yu888
Board Deity
Joined: Jan 25, 2003
Posts: 19241
Location: ZhongShanParkArea SH
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June 22, 2009 - 08:22 AM |
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Shangstar
Fire-eater
Joined: Feb 07, 2008
Posts: 2783
Location: Spitland
Status: Offline
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June 22, 2009 - 12:49 PM |
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oops your right.....i mistook media for newspapers/magazine articles etc, where the article came from.
India is the brains or Asia whilst China is the muscle. The two should complement each other, but political differences mean they dont. Shame. I think communism is suited to mass production - orderly queues etc. India doesn;t have the same order so manufacturig is not as good, but it does have brains. Take that Nano Car for example. |
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Charles Darwin: Differences between humans are differences in degree, not differences in kind |
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tihZ_hO
Post Roaster
Joined: Feb 17, 2004
Posts: 4194
Location: Shanghai / Jakarta
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June 22, 2009 - 12:58 PM |
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Why should we be surprised?
Everything is copied here including China passing itself off as a modern civilised country. |
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Battered deep fried butter, donut hamburgers, is it any wonder America has more body mass than China. China is the counterweight for America or else the Earth would be unbalanced and fly into the sun. |
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Shangstar
Fire-eater
Joined: Feb 07, 2008
Posts: 2783
Location: Spitland
Status: Offline
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June 22, 2009 - 01:09 PM |
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see your point, and those of us who buy DVDs do benefit from their copying I suppose. |
_________________
Charles Darwin: Differences between humans are differences in degree, not differences in kind |
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Shangstar
Fire-eater
Joined: Feb 07, 2008
Posts: 2783
Location: Spitland
Status: Offline
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June 22, 2009 - 01:20 PM |
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I reckon that Geely sounds like a milk float when it goes. |
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Charles Darwin: Differences between humans are differences in degree, not differences in kind |
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tihZ_hO
Post Roaster
Joined: Feb 17, 2004
Posts: 4194
Location: Shanghai / Jakarta
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June 22, 2009 - 01:49 PM |
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| Shangstar wrote: |
| see your point, and those of us who buy DVDs do benefit from their copying I suppose. |
For me DVDs are just about the only benefit from the copying - can't speak for others of course.
The logic of copy goods is seriously flawed as more copy goods flood the market their appeal is lessened when the originals lose value.
Why buy a real Rolex and LV bag if everyone thinks its a copy? Huh? |
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Battered deep fried butter, donut hamburgers, is it any wonder America has more body mass than China. China is the counterweight for America or else the Earth would be unbalanced and fly into the sun. |
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Shangstar
Fire-eater
Joined: Feb 07, 2008
Posts: 2783
Location: Spitland
Status: Offline
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June 22, 2009 - 02:37 PM |
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Thinking about it more, I suppose the real issue is this: If they can produce exact replicas of Rolls Royces for a 1/10th of the price then that is comparable to DVD copying, and I would go out and buy one. But with the cars they don't - they are passing something off as a great product that is in fact inferior. They are freeriding on the back of somebody else's marketing, design and reputation. |
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Charles Darwin: Differences between humans are differences in degree, not differences in kind |
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chingiskhan
Low Seater
Joined: Apr 24, 2007
Posts: 3347
Location: Shanghai
Status: Offline
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June 22, 2009 - 02:56 PM |
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| Shangstar wrote: |
| They are freeriding on the back of somebody else's marketing, design and reputation. |
Well yes, exactly. That's why they do it. They can't free ride on their own reputation can they!
However, I think it's very important to separate "copy cats" with counterfeit. They are not the same thing. Go in to any supermarket in England and you'll see branded products and very close by their private own label copies. |
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tihZ_hO
Post Roaster
Joined: Feb 17, 2004
Posts: 4194
Location: Shanghai / Jakarta
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June 22, 2009 - 02:58 PM |
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| Shangstar wrote: |
| Thinking about it more, I suppose the real issue is this: If they can produce exact replicas of Rolls Royces for a 1/10th of the price then that is comparable to DVD copying, and I would go out and buy one. But with the cars they don't - they are passing something off as a great product that is in fact inferior. They are freeriding on the back of somebody else's marketing, design and reputation. |
Rolls Royce is not just about quality, its prestige. The prestige was won by the workmanship of hand tooling in an era a mass production which created the iconic image of Rolls Royce of sophistication and culture.
Many Chinese are shallow at best lacking the sophistication to understand why workmanship develops prestige leading to image. Prestige, sophistication and culture is not bought it is developed through sophistication of thought and deeds.
This is clearly evident with China falling over itself shovelling money into the furnace in order to buy image and prestige first with the Olympics and now with Expo. |
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Battered deep fried butter, donut hamburgers, is it any wonder America has more body mass than China. China is the counterweight for America or else the Earth would be unbalanced and fly into the sun. |
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Shangstar
Fire-eater
Joined: Feb 07, 2008
Posts: 2783
Location: Spitland
Status: Offline
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June 22, 2009 - 03:12 PM |
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interesting points. Chingis you are correct. You just have to see how many supermarket "own-brands" there are that look very similar to the established brands. They even place them next to each other on the shelves. The big supermakets however can get away with it. I know there was litigation on this a long time ago, though the result must have been in the supermarkets' favour judging by how they sell their own branded products these days. |
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Charles Darwin: Differences between humans are differences in degree, not differences in kind |
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Rumpelstiltskin
PopStar
Joined: May 13, 2009
Posts: 1293
Status: Offline
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June 22, 2009 - 04:26 PM |
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If I would buy the Geely I would also buy Rolls's marking and changed it to look like real Rolls  |
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fulltrack
Reacher
Joined: Sep 17, 2008
Posts: 257
Location: Shanghai
Status: Offline
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June 22, 2009 - 04:55 PM |
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Are all cars not a copycat? fiat-Citroen-Peugot. Toyota-Mazda. Looks all familiar if you take a look in the same class.
Why should the Geely being a copy of the RR, it is a big difference. if the Geely has the sign of RR on it, then it would be a copycat, now i really don't get the link!
If you buy a fake Rolex watch is everybody not seeing that you wear a fake Rolex? It is annoying if you wear a fake and cannot effort the real one. |
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www.full-track.com |
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Shangstar
Fire-eater
Joined: Feb 07, 2008
Posts: 2783
Location: Spitland
Status: Offline
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June 22, 2009 - 05:42 PM |
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See your point Fulltrack. Designs are however protected. All depends on one's defiinition of "design". Take clothes for example - if Prada starts using Burberry colours then that would be considered an infringement. There's no real reason behind the Burberry print except that it's a novel design. Same goes for the Rollers. That huge grill, the wings, the shape and position of the headlights etc in combination, are it's design.If such a design was "required" for the car to work, then I can see Geely's point. But it doesn't - that frontage is Rolls Royce's hallmark. Geely could have chosen normal headlamps - they didn't. They could have chosen a small grill - but they didn't. They could have chosen their own mascot thing for the front - they didn't. They could have taken bits and pieces from other car designs - they didn't. They made it look exactly like the design that only one other car uses (just as only Burberry use their print) - the Rolls design. |
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Charles Darwin: Differences between humans are differences in degree, not differences in kind |
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cankles
Reacher
Joined: Nov 02, 2007
Posts: 227
Status: Offline
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June 22, 2009 - 06:10 PM |
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fulltrack
Reacher
Joined: Sep 17, 2008
Posts: 257
Location: Shanghai
Status: Offline
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June 22, 2009 - 06:17 PM |
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correct. "it would be considered".
this still not means "it is".
and as in the news is told RR (is considering for taking some action) which they probably not will do as they almost cannot do anything against it.
Time will tell this and i really hope "if" the Geely is in infringement with RR that they will be punished very hard. I doubt this will happen!
I am against copy, however i buy here also copies, because here i'm not sure if i buy a real thing if it is real yes or no? |
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www.full-track.com |
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jay_dee
Reacher
Joined: Mar 22, 2009
Posts: 330
Status: Offline
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June 22, 2009 - 09:55 PM |
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Geely will not change anything, the Chinese Gov't won't do anything either. If RR initiates a lawsuit in the UK, what good would it do, only to prove a point?
THIS IS CHINA, everything is copied. |
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US Expat in Shanghai |
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Shangstar
Fire-eater
Joined: Feb 07, 2008
Posts: 2783
Location: Spitland
Status: Offline
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June 22, 2009 - 10:01 PM |
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Oh yes they can.......hit them where it hurts with restrictions on Chinese imports, like their spare parts.
But to put it in perspective - the type of Chinese guy who can afford a 300,000 RMB car probably wouldn't go for something that is so obviously a copycat, and would probably try and go for more prestige in a Western brand. Especially if the copy sounds like a milk float. |
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Charles Darwin: Differences between humans are differences in degree, not differences in kind |
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leidelaohu
Board Lord
Joined: June 11, 2007
Posts: 5749
Status: Offline
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June 22, 2009 - 10:11 PM |
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| Shangstar wrote: |
| Oh yes they can.......hit them where it hurts with restrictions on Chinese imports, like their spare parts. |
Heh heh. "Their" spare parts ? the auto business here is all foreigner created unless you want a nice Red Flag limousine. Cut off the flow of cheap parts from China and you cut off the big profits for the money-men.
Personally, I think it's funny. None of the glamour brands are what they claim to be. There's no sixth generation Italian leather craftsman creating Gucci purses. All of it is one big shuck now, made in China by some penniless peasants in huge brick sweatshops by the very companies that are going to be bitching the loudest about copies.
The whole thing is one big fraud. Tee hee, the shysters are gonna get clobbered by the very system they set up. |
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Shangstar
Fire-eater
Joined: Feb 07, 2008
Posts: 2783
Location: Spitland
Status: Offline
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| Posted:
June 22, 2009 - 10:57 PM |
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I agree what you say about so called "designer" fashion products. It is pure rubbish. I would hazard a guess that 75% of the price you pay is to cover the expensive models, advertising and shop premises, while 20% goes to the shareholders and 5% for the cost of the physical product itself. However, a Roller is pure class and a feat of engineering. People who splash out on designer rubbish are just wannabes. If you drive a Roller (or I suppose be driven in a Roller - cant imagine anyone anywhere in the world driving their own), then you're the real deal!! Which is why Rollers hold their value, whilst so called designer gear become worthless as soon as you buy them. |
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Charles Darwin: Differences between humans are differences in degree, not differences in kind |
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