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wondering
Squeeker
Joined: Sep 09, 2008
Posts: 15
Status: Offline
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  Posted:
Sep 09, 2008 - 12:05 PM |
 
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| Post subject: Would you do it all over again? |
My husband and I (U.S West-coasters) are considering a year in Shanghai (or Hong Kong) so he can develop his firm's Chinese consulting practice. We have two little ones, 1 and 3. We've visited and really liked the city but living somewhere -- particularly with kids -- is another story. The $ and living situation would be excellent from what i can tell, but he doesn't need to do this to advance his career, though I don't think it would hurt. We're travelers by nature and like the adventure component of it. So...would you do it all over again (voluntarily, particularly if it were short-term)?
And does anyone know of a link discussing what things you should make sure your company pays for (or you would like for them to cover) during an international stint? Want to see how this idea pencils.
Any and all thoughts welcome and so appreciated. Thanks! |
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Magnolia
Board Biatch
Joined: June 01, 2004
Posts: 31550
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Sep 09, 2008 - 12:10 PM |
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by all means, yes. i would do it again.
there are tons and tons of threads regarding expat packages... if no one has posted any in a few hours i will hunt them down for you. |
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Magnolia
Board Biatch
Joined: June 01, 2004
Posts: 31550
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Sep 09, 2008 - 12:12 PM |
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(bare basics - vary on company, position, ect.... housing, transport, insurance, proper visas, schools, return-trips home, relo costs to/from) |
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wondering
Squeeker
Joined: Sep 09, 2008
Posts: 15
Status: Offline
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Sep 09, 2008 - 12:29 PM |
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Thanks. I am clearly not a seasoned thread-finder but I am trying! |
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Magnolia
Board Biatch
Joined: June 01, 2004
Posts: 31550
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Sep 09, 2008 - 01:02 PM |
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no worries! i am sure there will be some helpful souls who help before i can... but if they don't, i know i will have a few minutes tomorrow to search. |
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p1atl10
Shanghai Royalty
Joined: Mar 18, 2005
Posts: 8584
Location: Shanghai
Status: Offline
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Sep 09, 2008 - 01:03 PM |
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Hi
US Expat....
- Tax Equalization. You will still be liable for US Taxes....and any thing your company gives you as an allowance becomes taxable. Plus there is a 40-45% China Tax
- Housing Allowance
- COLA
- Hardship Allowance
- Home Leave
- Medical Coverage
- Car and Driver (optional, but with children should be tried for at least)
- If not Car and Driver.....transportation allowance.
All above are pretty much standard for ex-pats.
Good Luck!
Let us know if we can help! |
_________________
Not all chemicals are bad. Without chemicals such as hydrogen and oxygen, for example, there would be no way to make water, a vital ingredient in beer.....Dave Barry |
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Adimnistrator
Rocker
Joined: July 20, 2007
Posts: 681
Status: Offline
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Sep 09, 2008 - 01:09 PM |
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I would do it earlier, not 1997 but 1990 |
_________________
Barack Obama: young, handsome and suntanned.
(Silvio Berlusconi) |
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Michael
Moderator
Joined: Mar 22, 2002
Posts: 6100
Status: Offline
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Sep 09, 2008 - 01:28 PM |
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ShanghaiSecondHand
Talker
Joined: July 26, 2008
Posts: 76
Status: Offline
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Sep 09, 2008 - 02:56 PM |
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We came here with kids that age and have absolutely loved it! Not always the easiest with 2 small ones, but totally manageable.
These days in Shanghai, you can experience as much or as little of China as you want. Okay, so some things you can't completely get away from, but it is up to you and where you decide to live. There are plenty of items available to get most of your American comforts if you need them.
PM me if you have specific questions, I would be happy to help. |
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www.ShanghaiSecondHand.com |
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wondering
Squeeker
Joined: Sep 09, 2008
Posts: 15
Status: Offline
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Sep 10, 2008 - 03:45 AM |
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Thanks for those expat package threads, very helpful. And I'm jsut trying to get a feel for whether Shanghai would be a good international gig. Any thoughts on Shanghai vs. Hong Kong?
ShanghaiSecondHand I'll PM you separately, thanks! |
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OZDave
Reacher
Joined: July 04, 2008
Posts: 344
Status: Offline
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Sep 10, 2008 - 07:37 AM |
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Hong Kong is more westerner friendly.
You can get any western products you need, most people speak english, they have decent hospitals and great shopping.
Shanghai has a real buz to it though- it's growing fast, there's lots of new investment as the city is a boom town. If you like adventure, this is the place.
If you want to live in an asian megacity without having to rough it occasionally then perhaps Hong Kong is for you.
You will need a sense of humour in China- the bureaucracy can be incredible and incomprehensible sometimes (let alone some of the local habits which can be very strange to a western eye).
The only factor I am concerned about here myself is healthcare- there is huge variation in opinion about the quality of the few western healthcare facilities here.
You should make sure you get comprehensive medical insurance. |
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wondering
Squeeker
Joined: Sep 09, 2008
Posts: 15
Status: Offline
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Sep 11, 2008 - 02:37 PM |
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Thanks OZDave, as I suspected. I recall the bureacratic stuff in China from prior travels -- a sense of humor is sure a requirement. The opening and closing of internet cafes and DVD stores was one of my favorites.
I know Hong Kong is very expensive -- do you have any feel for how much more expensive it is than Shanghai? Like double or am I being cynical? Do you think hong kong would not feel exotic or just not as adventurous as Shanghai? Have been to Shanghai but not Hong Kong! |
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E8L
Barker
Joined: Aug 29, 2008
Posts: 133
Status: Offline
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Sep 11, 2008 - 03:21 PM |
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Depends on your life style. For the western upper or middle class life style Hong Kong overall is not really that much more expensive than Shanghai, except the rent. To try and live the lifestlye to see which place can save more money then Shanghai wins as locals can survive with a paycheck of just a few thousand kuai a month.
Hong Kong is more expensive on real estate, transportation and some services like internet, massages, haircuts etc. When it comes to shopping its usually cheaper, especially on brand name cloths like Nike, Calvin Klein, Lacoste, Gucci etc. When it comes to food it has better value (you pay for what you really get), and Hong Kong's food is usually better than Shanghai.
Hong Kong has line up for taxis and usually you can still get one during rush hour. Shanghai usually doesn't have line ups and getting a taxi during rush hour is a total nightmare! Public transportation in Hong Kong is a little bit more expensive but much better quality.
Hong Kong is close to Shenzhen so if you really need that down to earth chinese expirence you can go there within 1 hour! It's close to Macau (1 hour away also!) if you ever need to gamble.
In terms of housing and real estate Shanghai can be just as expensive as Hong Kong but Shnaghai always has options for really cheap rents like 5000rmb for 80-120ms (the lower quality apartments, which some are actually quite acceptable and cozy), while in hong kong 5000 probably only gets you a 20-30ms place, since hong kong usually counts the price per square feet or location regardless of the quality of the place.
Each has its own advantages and disadvantages.
Don't know if this helps but in Hong Kong my rent was HK$12000 and i spend $8000 on others, in Shangahi my rent is 7000RMB and spend 6000RMB on others. so its HK$20000 vs 13000RMB. My lifestyle is still about the same but the rent makes the big difference in expenditures bewteen these two places. |
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hautumncloud
LoopKicker
Joined: Nov 04, 2006
Posts: 968
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Sep 11, 2008 - 03:29 PM |
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For a short 1 year deal, comparing SH and HKG, HKG would be the way to go. Best of both east/west and still gives you a chance to experience living in Asia. HKG also has more options in everything....banking, healthcare, dental care, hiring maids, lots of flights options, food, shopping, education etc. Much easier to relocate and settle in HKG without unnecessary glitches. |
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hautumncloud
LoopKicker
Joined: Nov 04, 2006
Posts: 968
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Sep 11, 2008 - 03:34 PM |
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| OZDave wrote: |
You should make sure you get comprehensive medical insurance. |
Right. Anything more serious than a sniff, the international hospitals here will give you an IV! I have several friends who unfortunately had to be sent to HKG for what would be considered "not major" back home. And we found out then that the only evacuation company was SOS. |
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liupei
Reacher
Joined: July 05, 2008
Posts: 295
Status: Offline
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Sep 11, 2008 - 03:56 PM |
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with a minigun , 10 billion rounds of ammo or a nuclear vest, plus a suicide pill |
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finox
Newbie
Joined: Sep 03, 2008
Posts: 5
Status: Offline
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Sep 11, 2008 - 04:11 PM |
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Both HK and Shanghai are great place.
Maybe you should pick Shanghai instead, so that you kids can learn Mandarin and get expose to Chinese culture. I think is good, you know, since your husband is going to build his empire in China. |
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gino
Reacher
Joined: Jan 31, 2005
Posts: 240
Status: Offline
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Sep 11, 2008 - 04:56 PM |
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If you cannot make up your mind, you can try HK first. After you have enough confidence you can come to Shanghai.
If you ask me wether I would do things the same way... well yes for sure. |
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