| Author |
Message |
KalanStar
Reacher
Joined: Oct 06, 2009
Posts: 241
Location: Shanghai
Status: Offline
|
  Posted:
Oct 15, 2009 - 02:46 PM |
 
|
| Post subject: Is getting straight answers a matter of "face"? |
No matter how much time I spend in China, I never can quite figure out some of the answers I get for questions I think should be quite straightforward and easy to answer.
For example: Last night after my usual 90min oil massage, I was asked if I wanted an hour long foot massage? As usual, I said "yes". So the girl goes out to get the supplies and comes back in and says she can't do the massage. I ask why, and she says it's because she has something else to do. I looked at the clock and noticed that the parlor was only open for another 30min and figured she couldn't do it because they were closing. So why didn't she just say they were closing?
Today my office phoned me and said I didn't have to come to work. Since I've been scheduled to work today for a couple weeks, I asked "why?" The answer was, from the secretary, was "because the manager asked me to phone and tell you that." ??? So I say "OK, see you tomorrow."
But why not just tell me the reason? Is it a matter of "face' saving? If so, what "face" could they be losing by offering a reasonable explanation?
Is just because of my cultural orientation that I prefer a reasonable answer to a reasonable question? And do the Chinese answer other Chinese in a similar fashion? |
|
|
|
|
SoFarSoGood
Reacher
Joined: Mar 10, 2006
Posts: 272
Status: Offline
|
| Posted:
Oct 15, 2009 - 02:56 PM |
|
|
ok, i think you have to quickly switch off your mode for getting straight answers.
the sec. who called you, doesn't want take any responsibility. once you realize that most people are working on orders (like military), you will have an easier life. |
|
|
|
|
Tanna
Reacher
Joined: June 07, 2009
Posts: 319
Status: Offline
|
| Posted:
Oct 15, 2009 - 03:47 PM |
|
|
Yes this problem does frustrate me at times too, but I "switch off" as well, and just take it as it is. I find that if I don't do this, my life is a lot more stressful and I'll live shorter due to some kind of stress disease or mental illness.  |
|
|
 |
|
KalanStar
Reacher
Joined: Oct 06, 2009
Posts: 241
Location: Shanghai
Status: Offline
|
| Posted:
Oct 15, 2009 - 04:58 PM |
|
|
I "switch off" too. I expect this kind of behavior, but that doesn't negate me from trying to understand it. Thus the OP. |
_________________
 |
|
|
|
|
tomahawks
Reacher
Joined: May 20, 2009
Posts: 236
Status: Offline
|
| Posted:
Oct 15, 2009 - 05:19 PM |
|
|
East-West attitudes regarding authority can ultimately be traced back to Socratic (dialectic) and Confucian teaching. |
|
|
|
|
|
Andreas
Shanghai Royalty
Joined: Feb 27, 2004
Posts: 9140
Location: s/v Waratah
|
| Posted:
Oct 16, 2009 - 12:44 AM |
|
|
| KalanStar wrote: |
| I "switch off" too. I expect this kind of behavior, but that doesn't negate me from trying to understand it. Thus the OP. |
You are still trying to explain. I like that, but I would not think about it too much. I the cases you mentioned it is pretty easy. Just stupidity, and lack of any kind of logic or common sense. Welcome to Asia.  |
_________________
How do you make a small fortune? Start with a big fortune, and buy a boat. |
|
|
|
Seen
Reacher
Joined: Jan 14, 2009
Posts: 272
Status: Offline
|
| Posted:
Oct 16, 2009 - 02:10 AM |
|
|
| Andreas wrote: |
| KalanStar wrote: |
| I "switch off" too. I expect this kind of behavior, but that doesn't negate me from trying to understand it. Thus the OP. |
You are still trying to explain. I like that, but I would not think about it too much. I the cases you mentioned it is pretty easy. Just stupidity, and lack of any kind of logic or common sense. Welcome to Asia. |
Please accept my apology for being born an Asian and therefore stupid and lack of any kind of logic or common sense because like, uh, you know, we cannot differentiate between Australia and Austria... oh hang on... |
|
|
|
|
|
findus
Fire-eater
Joined: Feb 03, 2004
Posts: 2520
Status: Offline
|
| Posted:
Oct 16, 2009 - 06:19 AM |
|
| Post subject: Re: Is getting straight answers a matter of "face" |
| KalanStar wrote: |
| No matter how much time I spend in China, I never can quite figure out some of the answers I get for questions I think should be quite straightforward and easy to answer. |
Try some empathy. |
_________________
 |
|
|
|
|
CoffeeHawk_0
Board Deity
Joined: July 14, 2005
Posts: 17952
|
| Posted:
Oct 16, 2009 - 06:35 AM |
|
|
| Seen wrote: |
| Andreas wrote: |
| KalanStar wrote: |
| I "switch off" too. I expect this kind of behavior, but that doesn't negate me from trying to understand it. Thus the OP. |
You are still trying to explain. I like that, but I would not think about it too much. I the cases you mentioned it is pretty easy. Just stupidity, and lack of any kind of logic or common sense. Welcome to Asia. |
Please accept my apology for being born an Asian and therefore stupid and lack of any kind of logic or common sense because like, uh, you know, we cannot differentiate between Australia and Austria... oh hang on... |
yup, as said above, Socrates never consulted with Confucius or visa versa. Many Chinese do not realize how much interpretation needs to be done by the foreigner, hence the extra stress in life here, and the foreigner always has to remember they are the guest so they have the burden of absorbing more of the confusion. Hence, websites like there where people can just unload some of the crap. |
|
|
 |
|
binky
Reacher
Joined: June 06, 2009
Posts: 284
Location: JinShan, Shanghai
Status: Offline
|
| Posted:
Oct 16, 2009 - 06:41 AM |
|
|
I would say that Chinese generally don't like to directly talk about things that they feel are disappointing or upsetting to someone else.
In part its because they don't like to look bad in the eyes of others.
But also because it makes them uncomfortable to upset someone else. Especially someone they know.
Also, this is what's known as a 'high context' culture, so some things you are just expected to know or figure out for yourself. 
The fact that we sometimes need things spelled out for us directly in black and white is probably also as frustrating and mystifying to the folks here as it is to us (although they are generally unwilling to make a big issue about it unless pushed...see above.  )
Yeah, don't stress yourself. Sometimes, little white lies or polite evasions actually make things go more smoothly and avoid hurt feelings (my gosh, did I just say that? I must have been here too long!  ) |
|
|
|
|
|
Seen
Reacher
Joined: Jan 14, 2009
Posts: 272
Status: Offline
|
| Posted:
Oct 16, 2009 - 11:46 AM |
|
|
^ Well I can't speak for the local Chinese but when I was in Singapore people were pretty straight forward in letting me know that their nation is perfect and much better than mine, no sugar coating. Anyway, again, I'm sorry that we Asians are so stupid and lack of any kind of logic or common sense that we created a global economic crisis... oh wait a minute... |
|
|
|
|
|
mathlete
Seeker
Joined: May 18, 2004
Posts: 65
Status: Offline
|
| Posted:
Oct 16, 2009 - 01:02 PM |
|
|
Yeah - tune it out like they do, otherwise you'll get old fast. But still doesnt completely leave my system and tends to bother me every now and again. |
|
|
|
|
|
BeiDong
Raver
Joined: June 09, 2009
Posts: 480
Status: Offline
|
| Posted:
Oct 16, 2009 - 01:24 PM |
|
|
| Seen wrote: |
| ^ Well I can't speak for the local Chinese but when I was in Singapore people were pretty straight forward in letting me know that their nation is perfect and much better than mine, no sugar coating. Anyway, again, I'm sorry that we Asians are so stupid and lack of any kind of logic or common sense that we created a global economic crisis... oh wait a minute... |
See, the Asian is being indirect, using faux-self-deprecation to imply that he's the victim.
Bawww. |
|
|
|
|
|
binky
Reacher
Joined: June 06, 2009
Posts: 284
Location: JinShan, Shanghai
Status: Offline
|
| Posted:
Oct 16, 2009 - 01:31 PM |
|
|
Come on, guys, we are not so different. If he didn't identify his origin, he could be from anywhere.
Its just a question of propensities towards different shades of gray. |
|
|
|
|
|
Seen
Reacher
Joined: Jan 14, 2009
Posts: 272
Status: Offline
|
| Posted:
Oct 16, 2009 - 04:55 PM |
|
|
| BeiDong wrote: |
| Seen wrote: |
| ^ Well I can't speak for the local Chinese but when I was in Singapore people were pretty straight forward in letting me know that their nation is perfect and much better than mine, no sugar coating. Anyway, again, I'm sorry that we Asians are so stupid and lack of any kind of logic or common sense that we created a global economic crisis... oh wait a minute... |
See, the Asian is being indirect, using faux-self-deprecation to imply that he's the victim.
Bawww. |
HAHAHAHA right, so non-Asians do not use sarcasm aye? Yep, good one. |
|
|
|
|
|
BeiDong
Raver
Joined: June 09, 2009
Posts: 480
Status: Offline
|
| Posted:
Oct 16, 2009 - 05:20 PM |
|
|
| Seen wrote: |
| BeiDong wrote: |
| Seen wrote: |
| ^ Well I can't speak for the local Chinese but when I was in Singapore people were pretty straight forward in letting me know that their nation is perfect and much better than mine, no sugar coating. Anyway, again, I'm sorry that we Asians are so stupid and lack of any kind of logic or common sense that we created a global economic crisis... oh wait a minute... |
See, the Asian is being indirect, using faux-self-deprecation to imply that he's the victim.
Bawww. |
HAHAHAHA right, so non-Asians do not use sarcasm aye? Yep, good one. |
Don't you know that the Chinese invented sarcasm? |
|
|
|
|
|
BoaoInn
Lurker
Joined: Sep 05, 2009
Posts: 36
Location: Boao Hainan PRC
Status: Offline
|
| Posted:
Oct 16, 2009 - 07:08 PM |
|
|
ha ha whenever I ask my Chinese husband "Why" to some of the type of questions the OP mentioned he simply says, "There's 'No Why". This is China" ...and on so many levels, he's right! |
_________________
Boao Inn B&B |
|
|
|
|
Turkish
Squeeker
Joined: Oct 15, 2009
Posts: 10
Location: Jiaxing
Status: Offline
|
| Posted:
Oct 16, 2009 - 07:35 PM |
|
|
I am soon moving to Jiaxing and I invited a relocation company representative to my house to give me a quotation for the 25 boxes. Even though he saw all the boxes ready to depart on the corner, he explained me about 5 minutes of their service of packing procedure. I think their mentality works in different ways, maybe they are required to talk about it like the massage girl, it doesn't always needs to make sense |
_________________
Looking for Job |
|
|
|
|
mathlete
Seeker
Joined: May 18, 2004
Posts: 65
Status: Offline
|
| Posted:
Oct 16, 2009 - 08:54 PM |
|
|
Talk about price, then see how quickly chinese 'logic' goes away and they start to reason - Thats the fact Jack! |
|
|
|
|
|
BoaoInn
Lurker
Joined: Sep 05, 2009
Posts: 36
Location: Boao Hainan PRC
Status: Offline
|
| Posted:
Oct 16, 2009 - 09:47 PM |
|
|
| Turkish wrote: |
| I am soon moving to Jiaxing and I invited a relocation company representative to my house to give me a quotation for the 25 boxes. Even though he saw all the boxes ready to depart on the corner, he explained me about 5 minutes of their service of packing procedure. I think their mentality works in different ways, maybe they are required to talk about it like the massage girl, it doesn't always needs to make sense |
If he was speaking in English, he may have memorized his spiel. Like some tour guides, they cannot be interrupted or they will have to start all over from the beginning!!! |
_________________
Boao Inn B&B |
|
|
|
|
midway
Seeker
Joined: Sep 27, 2009
Posts: 54
Status: Offline
|
| Posted:
Oct 17, 2009 - 02:08 AM |
|
| Post subject: Re: Is getting straight answers a matter of "face" |
| KalanStar wrote: |
And do the Chinese answer other Chinese in a similar fashion? |
Absolutletly.
In your case, the first girl was trying to be polite and the secratray didn't want to look bad having to explain the "bad news" when she is only a "messager".
For some reason, an answer 'NO" is quite upsetting to Chinese and people try to go around it instead of say it directly.
I think it has something to do with the culture essentially being a 'collective' one. You always want to consider how other people would think and feel before you say something. A blunt 'NO' shows that you are inconsiderate of other people's feelings and thus can be rude.
Also, in China, when a group of people work together, it's less about getting things done and focus on the business, but more about getting along with each other and building good relationships. The society is built on such hierachy and personal connection that one cannot afford taking the risk of offending somebody "higher" than himself by not providing a positive answer to the request. It's always personal. (though this is changing especially in foreign firms and among younger generation). |
_________________
Moving back to Shanghai with a secret agenda... |
|
|
|
|
midway
Seeker
Joined: Sep 27, 2009
Posts: 54
Status: Offline
|
| Posted:
Oct 17, 2009 - 02:18 AM |
|
|
| Andreas wrote: |
| KalanStar wrote: |
| I "switch off" too. I expect this kind of behavior, but that doesn't negate me from trying to understand it. Thus the OP. |
You are still trying to explain. I like that, but I would not think about it too much. I the cases you mentioned it is pretty easy. Just stupidity, and lack of any kind of logic or common sense. Welcome to Asia. |
--Can somebody explain this?
--Well I don't really want to think and try to understand so let's just call it stupidity.
And what perfect logic and superior intelligence right here! |
_________________
Moving back to Shanghai with a secret agenda... |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Forum FAQ
Search
Preferences
Watched Topics
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
