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Shady_Slim
Reacher
Joined: Dec 08, 2008
Posts: 219
Location: Out by the next hutong...
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 Posted:
Oct 10, 2009 - 12:53 PM |
 
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| Post subject: Smoking ban in Shanghai soon? |
Smoking ban faces an uphill battle in Shanghai
Shanghai health officials have embarked on a crusade to clean up the city's air. They're not about to tackle pollution, though; their sights are set on smokers.
They plan to introduce strict new rules within the next few months to restrict smoking in public places. Although they are not proposing a blanket ban, the proposals would be a major step for a mainland city.
To the consternation of some teachers and doctors, schools and hospitals are to get an outright ban. Cinemas, museums, banks, airports, railways and the like are to get similar treatment, as are many private businesses. Only bars, restaurants and entertainment venues such as karaoke joints are to get any reprieve, but even there smoking will be limited to special areas. The entire pedestrian precinct on Nanjing Road - one of the city's biggest tourist areas - could become a smoke-free zone.
The local papers have been full this week of articles discussing the importance and possible benefits of the restrictions - not to mention the perceived impact on entertainment businesses - after a packed and at times heated consultation forum on Monday.
Shanghai would not be the first place in the world to introduce such a clampdown. California, Ireland and New York have led the past decade's crusade to prevent smokers from polluting other people's lungs.
Even France has conceded it needs to grapple with its infamous love of the Gauloises. Try lighting up in a Paris bistro these days and you'll be shown the door, sharpish.
These are the sorts of places that Shanghai aspires to being compared to, especially with the World Expo coming next year. The phased introduction of a ban on smoking in public places in Hong Kong may have been dogged by controversy, but it has certainly set a precedent; once again the Fragrant Harbour is providing the regional yardstick against which Shanghai measures itself. And so Shanghai's municipal government is rushing through legislation to clamp down on public puffing, well ahead of the Expo's May 1 opening.
Non-smoking areas are all but unheard of except in the city's swankiest districts. Many small cafes and restaurants are filled with a thick smog. People lining up in convenience stores regularly have to put up with smokers, too. To offer a polite complaint is to be met with a glower of incomprehension.
A small number of taxis have faded, peeling non-smoking stickers on the back of the driver's plexiglas cocoon. But you'll be lucky to make it out through the fog of noxious fumes the central government is permitting. In offices across the city, workers light up at their desks without pausing to think whether their non-smoking colleagues mind. They aren't being selfish; they simply aren't aware of the concept that non-smokers might like to work in air they can breathe.
In short, cigarette smoking is everywhere. The suggestion that Shanghai could ban smoking in public places in one fell swoop is, at best, risible. In all honesty, it's pretty ludicrous. This city just doesn't do rules very well.
There are rules against public littering, yet people can regularly be seen walking out of convenience stores discarding wrappers over their shoulders like confetti. In places, the litter collects in drifts.
Jaywalking is also illegal, but the only way the city has managed to stop pedestrians blindly walking out into busy traffic is to station an army of whistle-blowing wardens on main crossings, often four to an intersection.
The law states that you need to wear a seat belt; very few taxis actually have working belts you can put on. About six years ago they did, though. For a short period the government ran a campaign of spot checks, fining drivers if their passengers weren't buckled up. The rules were obeyed stringently until the campaign was over, then quickly forgotten.
And that is what the man on the Shanghai street expects to happen with the smoking ban.
No doubt during the Expo there will be teams of inspectors scurrying around the city to make sure nobody is having a sly smoke somewhere he shouldn't be - especially in the districts tourists are likely to visit. There will be spot checks in coffee houses, karaoke lounges and even offices. Stickers will be put up, notices fixed and public announcements made on the metro.
But in a year's time those Shanghai Expo no-smoking signs will probably end up being used as ashtrays |
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Don't argue with an idiot; people watching may not be able to tell the difference. |
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KalanStar
Reacher
Joined: Oct 06, 2009
Posts: 241
Location: Shanghai
Status: Offline
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Oct 10, 2009 - 02:12 PM |
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Smoking, why not? As you said, the air quality is terrible, so whats a little tobacco added to the mix? In my opinion, Shanghai should aspire to be more like.... Berlin! Never found a non smoking airport, train station, cafe, bar, restaurant etc. etc. there, and Germans live longer than their non-smoking Canadian cousins. I was actually quite alarmed when I came back here after a few years away to see that the airport was non-smoking! I thought the Chinese had more sense than to jump on the no smoking bandwagon. I always find it funny that sugar sucking fat chewing overweight and out of shape Canadians think they are healthy because they don't smoke. hahaha, what a bunch of tards!
Well, at least cigarette prices are still reasonable here and not too many fat people stinking up the air and ruining the view!!!!! |
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AD
Seeker
Joined: May 13, 2007
Posts: 52
Status: Offline
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Oct 10, 2009 - 02:26 PM |
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quote from a Bar in the Midlands UK
Your pleasure is smoking
The product of your pleasure is Smoke
It it drifts across, pollutes my lungs, my skin, my clothes need washing if I have been near you.
But it is fine, happy to see you excercise your freedom.
My pleasure is Beer
The product of my pleasure is Urine
hope I can piss on your head sometime soon.
Some Chinese are fine, if you ask the table next to you, you can get polite sorry, it seems likely that nothing will change in Shanghai, you are free to break most rules in Shanghai.
But it is not so bad, most Smokers are in fact considerate. |
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Shangstar
Fire-eater
Joined: Feb 07, 2008
Posts: 2787
Location: Spitland
Status: Offline
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Oct 10, 2009 - 03:50 PM |
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I hate smoking and the smell of cigarettes. BUT in China, sometimes the smell of fags is a welcome scent when you're walking past mouldy rotten food on the streets, nappies and that disgusting stench you get down some smaller streets. My neighbour did the most enourmous dump and it stunk the whole place out. It was quite nice when he had a fag to cover up the smell. And I hate smoking! |
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Ah Beng
Rocker
Joined: May 14, 2008
Posts: 779
Location: Shanghai Paradise
Status: Offline
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Oct 11, 2009 - 12:14 AM |
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I think Shanghai will be the last place on earth to ban smoking. Before that, there are so many other axis of evil (quote bush) they have to deal with on a daily basis.. |
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DrShanghai
Reacher
Joined: Nov 06, 2005
Posts: 318
Status: Offline
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Oct 11, 2009 - 12:44 AM |
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I love this quote.
I'm old enough to remember the bad old days when almost everybody smoked or allowed people to smoke around them.
This was the 1950's and 60's, then we got smart, and educated, and yes I was a Smoker for 16 years. So I know how hard it it to quit.
Most Chinese are stuck in the 1950's, and the government is not doing a good job of getting through to them.
I applaud Shanghai for the effort to restrict smoking, but I doubt that is going to make much difference. Just like the taxi's have been non-smoking for a longtime. The drivers have no concept of why they can't fill the taxi with smoke right before they pick you up, as long as they don't smoke while you are in there.
The only way it will work, is if it very tightly enforced, and fines are handed out.
we will see. right now lets hope somebody shows up for the expo, it is not looking good.
quote from a Bar in the Midlands UK
Your pleasure is smoking
The product of your pleasure is Smoke
It it drifts across, pollutes my lungs, my skin, my clothes need washing if I have been near you.
But it is fine, happy to see you excercise your freedom.
My pleasure is Beer
The product of my pleasure is Urine
hope I can piss on your head sometime soon. |
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trousers
Ranter
Joined: Apr 28, 2009
Posts: 581
Location: sofa
Status: Offline
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Oct 11, 2009 - 01:59 AM |
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My great uncle smoked sixty tabs a day since he was aged sixteen. He died a happy man, aged twenty-four. |
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Delpy wrote: No we are not racist.Racist never happen in China, Racist only happen in you civilize countries. 11.08.09 |
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TrueNorth
Barker
Joined: Sep 08, 2009
Posts: 140
Location: Shanghai
Status: Offline
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Oct 11, 2009 - 02:20 AM |
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| trousers wrote: |
| My great uncle smoked sixty tabs a day since he was aged sixteen. He died a happy man, aged twenty-four. |
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jay_dee
Reacher
Joined: Mar 22, 2009
Posts: 330
Status: Offline
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Oct 11, 2009 - 05:32 AM |
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Just back from a month in the States, yes - I'm a smoker too.
I was shocked to see how far people have allowed the authorities to suppress smoking.
Average cost of $9.25 per pack due to 'sin taxes'.
I can accept no smoking in offices, hospitals, shopping malls/stores, sports arenas, airports, ferries/trains/buses/taxis, bars, restaurants and theaters.
However, now it's even banned in public/private areas as well like golf courses, open parks/sports fields, amusement parks/bowling alleys, beaches, school/university campuses, downtown shopping areas plus casinos and hotels.
Some apartment complexes and retirement communities are deemed 'smoke-free' so you can't smoke in your own home.
There are laws to prevent smoking in your car if a minor child is present, the politicians now want to make it illegal to smoke and drive - period.
Land of the free - bah - I can smoke damn near anywhere in China.
I say bring back Prohibition, make all alcohol illegal and let all the drunks, winos and politicians suffer for a change.
That would reduce the police staffing of checkpoints and court system for DUI offenses.
I'm not a drinker so banning booze would not affect me at all.
How about $50 for a bottle of beer or $150 for a Cosmo. |
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US Expat in Shanghai
Last edited by jay_dee on Oct 11, 2009 - 07:51 AM; edited 1 time in total |
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sinned69
Veejay
Joined: Sep 01, 2004
Posts: 1814
Location: China, Middle East, Asia Pacific
Status: Offline
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Oct 11, 2009 - 07:12 AM |
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about time... but i reserve judgement on just how effective the rule will be and how much it's enforced. pity that the rest of China doesn't follow suit... sick of dealing with smoking inside hospitals by all and sundry.. |
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qing nin shao deng |
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CoffeeHawk_0
Board Deity
Joined: July 14, 2005
Posts: 17977
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Oct 11, 2009 - 07:24 AM |
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Let's hope China chooses a reasonable and just course of action and does not become over-anal like California.
In 2004 or 2005 14,000 people died from alcohol related car crashes or hits in the small, unpopulated sate of Kentucky. In the entire USA, there is a statistically generated number of 2000 people dying from second hand smoke. Thus, let's ban smoking everywhere!!! I can't imagine China falling prey to this sort of 'logic'. |
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Stark
Reacher
Joined: Mar 19, 2006
Posts: 233
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Oct 11, 2009 - 07:42 AM |
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Good. Smokers should not be allowed to smoke in ANY public area. It is an extremely disrespectful activity, and anytime I am in a restaurant near smokers who wave their death-sticks around I know that they have an insensitive and low character.
My Mother is a smoker, but she never smokes inside the house, and she never smokes in enclosed public areas. THAT is the correct behavior if you are a smoker. |
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jasonnoguchi
LoopKicker
Joined: Mar 05, 2005
Posts: 902
Location: From Singapore
Status: Offline
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Oct 11, 2009 - 09:07 AM |
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Seriously, the "smoking ban" is more of a political thing than anything. The chinese don't care for air quality and they all smoke like chimneys even offering cigs as presents during weddings. The thing about the "smoking ban", which is bound to happen, is because Shanghai wants to be one of those "top cities" in the world and apparently, smoking ban is what all those "top cities" are doing. That is the only reason why they are doing it. |
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CEO, Optiontradingpedia.com, Futurestradingpedia.com, Singaporeans in Shanghai Forum |
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DrShanghai
Reacher
Joined: Nov 06, 2005
Posts: 318
Status: Offline
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Oct 11, 2009 - 10:41 AM |
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I was taking the Train from Yangzhou to Hangzhou back in 2007, We were in the soft seat section, and of course during the six hour trip we stopped several time to pick up and unload passengers. At one of the stops five country side guys got on board. right away they lit up, and the conductress came right over to them and told them to stop. They told her to go to hell.
She walked away and I thought oh Crap we will have to breathe smoke for the next four hours, she is not going to enforce the Law.
About two minutes later she came back with two big Cops. (we were still sitting at the station),
they walked up told them to quit or get off the train. these nimrods started to talk back to the cops too, the biggest cop smacked one the guys right in the face.
And pulled out his ticket book, made them pay 500rmb each right there. took their cigarettes. I was in shock!!!
If Shanghai is this proactive(without the hitting part), we will see some success, yes I agree it is political. Also it is a good way to make a lot of money for the city.
If you think about it, Shanghai has around 20 million people not counting visitors, if 1 million citations were written a month X 500Rm. That is 500.000.000rmb in the cities coffers.
after a few months that number would drop, but hey would be win win situation!
When I was a smoker, I never smoked in my house or car, or around people in public places. I was respectful, but most smokers are not respectful, they why we have to have laws unfortunately.
Folks don't forget you are smoking a drug! nicotine is a powerful addicting drug, in the same category as cocaine. Tobacco is China's new Opium.
Think about about it! |
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gino
Reacher
Joined: Jan 31, 2005
Posts: 240
Status: Offline
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Oct 11, 2009 - 10:47 AM |
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| DrShanghai wrote: |
Tobacco is China's new Opium. |
Exactly and the Gov. makes good money so far. Once the health related costs will be problem, then things might change.
The smoking ban is part of the EXPO. I cannot imagine it will last longer then, let's say October 2010. |
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LadyofLeisure
Reacher
Joined: Aug 03, 2009
Posts: 272
Location: Pudong
Status: Offline
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Oct 11, 2009 - 01:04 PM |
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Here is a picture of someone in the US that does NOT like smoking bans... Personally, I wish the whole world was nonsmoking! |
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If bored visit the website: www.peopleofwalmart.com good for a laugh! |
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Shangstar
Fire-eater
Joined: Feb 07, 2008
Posts: 2787
Location: Spitland
Status: Offline
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Oct 11, 2009 - 01:16 PM |
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when someone's smoke wafts into your face, I equate that with someone farting or belching in your face. It's disgusting and damn rude. |
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Charles Darwin: Differences between humans are differences in degree, not differences in kind |
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Shady_Slim
Reacher
Joined: Dec 08, 2008
Posts: 219
Location: Out by the next hutong...
Status: Offline
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Oct 11, 2009 - 02:20 PM |
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As the article says, chances are it will work for the duration of the expo then its sod's law... |
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Don't argue with an idiot; people watching may not be able to tell the difference. |
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blondesands
Reacher
Joined: Nov 21, 2007
Posts: 370
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Oct 11, 2009 - 03:14 PM |
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"A LEADER of one of the teams that will enforce Shanghai’s coming smoking control law wants to completely ban tobacco use inside KTV parlors, video arcades, pubs and other entertainment venues.
“The law should ensure fairness. There should be no difference in smoking control among different rooms inside a karaoke bar or elsewhere in the industry,” Lan Yiming of the Shanghai Culture Market Administrative Law Enforcement Team said during a public hearing yesterday on the draft measure.
Without a blanket ban, he fears his agency and the others handling enforcement will have a difficult time persuading people to stop smoking in one area when they see people lighting up in another nearby.
Lan was among the 20-plus people brought together by Shanghai People’s Congress to give their views on the issue. Law makers may amend the draft based on what they heard yesterday as they continue discussion of the proposal. Their goal is to enact the measure by the end of the year, well in advance of the 2010 Shanghai World Expo, which starts on May 1."
Being unwillingly subjected to second-hand smoke is horrible, but, rather than spend so much time, money and resources on a smoking ban (which I don't see working), how about focusing more on improving the air quality, traffic conditions, and health care issues that really matter? |
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Shady_Slim
Reacher
Joined: Dec 08, 2008
Posts: 219
Location: Out by the next hutong...
Status: Offline
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Oct 11, 2009 - 03:28 PM |
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If my memory is still intact, i recall a smoking ban in entertainment venues here in shanghai somtime in 1998, i used to smoke then and i remember for some time, they didnt have ashtrays in discos and clubs, since they were offically non smoking, although they let us 'smoke' in certain areas of the discos? those were the days of New York, JJ's, Galaxy discos in shanghai, dont know if anyone from those days is still around this site to remember? |
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Don't argue with an idiot; people watching may not be able to tell the difference. |
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Ah Beng
Rocker
Joined: May 14, 2008
Posts: 779
Location: Shanghai Paradise
Status: Offline
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Oct 11, 2009 - 08:19 PM |
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Ban smoking in public places should be at the top of the list, along with disarming nukes in North Korea and Iran... |
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KalanStar
Reacher
Joined: Oct 06, 2009
Posts: 241
Location: Shanghai
Status: Offline
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Oct 11, 2009 - 10:08 PM |
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| jay_dee wrote: |
Just back from a month in the States, yes - I'm a smoker too.
I was shocked to see how far people have allowed the authorities to suppress smoking.
Average cost of $9.25 per pack due to 'sin taxes'.
I can accept no smoking in offices, hospitals, shopping malls/stores, sports arenas, airports, ferries/trains/buses/taxis, bars, restaurants and theaters.
However, now it's even banned in public/private areas as well like golf courses, open parks/sports fields, amusement parks/bowling alleys, beaches, school/university campuses, downtown shopping areas plus casinos and hotels.
Some apartment complexes and retirement communities are deemed 'smoke-free' so you can't smoke in your own home.
There are laws to prevent smoking in your car if a minor child is present, the politicians now want to make it illegal to smoke and drive - period.
Land of the free - bah - I can smoke damn near anywhere in China.
I say bring back Prohibition, make all alcohol illegal and let all the drunks, winos and politicians suffer for a change.
That would reduce the police staffing of checkpoints and court system for DUI offenses.
I'm not a drinker so banning booze would not affect me at all.
How about $50 for a bottle of beer or $150 for a Cosmo. |
Welcome to the land (USA) of the free my friend  Well actually the good ol' USA doesn't even make the top 10 list of free countries, but that's off topic.
I'll never understand why people are "free" to drive their gas powered cars, polluting the air inside and out with real poison while smoking takes the rap for so many of the problems the automobiles actually cause! As for making alcohol illegal... WTF, are you retarded???? |
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KalanStar
Reacher
Joined: Oct 06, 2009
Posts: 241
Location: Shanghai
Status: Offline
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Oct 11, 2009 - 10:19 PM |
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| DrShanghai wrote: |
I was taking the Train from Yangzhou to Hangzhou back in 2007, We were in the soft seat section, and of course during the six hour trip we stopped several time to pick up and unload passengers. At one of the stops five country side guys got on board. right away they lit up, and the conductress came right over to them and told them to stop. They told her to go to hell.
She walked away and I thought oh Crap we will have to breathe smoke for the next four hours, she is not going to enforce the Law.
About two minutes later she came back with two big Cops. (we were still sitting at the station),
they walked up told them to quit or get off the train. these nimrods started to talk back to the cops too, the biggest cop smacked one the guys right in the face.
And pulled out his ticket book, made them pay 500rmb each right there. took their cigarettes. I was in shock!!!
If Shanghai is this proactive(without the hitting part), we will see some success, yes I agree it is political. Also it is a good way to make a lot of money for the city.
If you think about it, Shanghai has around 20 million people not counting visitors, if 1 million citations were written a month X 500Rm. That is 500.000.000rmb in the cities coffers.
after a few months that number would drop, but hey would be win win situation!
When I was a smoker, I never smoked in my house or car, or around people in public places. I was respectful, but most smokers are not respectful, they why we have to have laws unfortunately.
Folks don't forget you are smoking a drug! nicotine is a powerful addicting drug, in the same category as cocaine. Tobacco is China's new Opium.
Think about about it! |
Interesting story. The last time I was on a train, the head police man came walking through the train and saw me standing in the section between the cars puffing on a smoke. He promptly called me into the car, told six people to get out of their seats, told me to sit down and offered me another cigarette! He and I smoked the whole way from Shanghai to Suzhou while the others in the car were not permitted to smoke. Ahhhh freedom, to hell with equality
Anyone who doesn't smoke and drives a car is the biggest hypocrite there ever could be. I'll suck on my smoke, you go suck on your tailpipe! |
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Andreas
Shanghai Royalty
Joined: Feb 27, 2004
Posts: 9140
Location: s/v Waratah
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Oct 11, 2009 - 10:42 PM |
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Smoking filter cigarettes is about the only way to get reasonable clean air in this city. |
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How do you make a small fortune? Start with a big fortune, and buy a boat. |
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p1atl10
Shanghai Royalty
Joined: Mar 18, 2005
Posts: 8585
Location: Shanghai
Status: Offline
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Oct 12, 2009 - 02:14 AM |
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I would imagine that the "No Smoking" ban will be observed at about the same rate as the "Pedestrians have right of way on the green" rules.... |
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Not all chemicals are bad. Without chemicals such as hydrogen and oxygen, for example, there would be no way to make water, a vital ingredient in beer.....Dave Barry |
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