hundan wrote:No there is no need whatsoever to give face to the Chinese at every possible moment and bow and scrape. Western culture is international culture. If they expect you to conform to their culture, it is THEY who are being culturally insensitive. If there culture were as great as they say, why are they a developing country? I don't give an inch.

hundan wrote:ChiBob, I am not in business here. I am not a new arrival either - I have spent 4 years of my life in China, and have increasingly come to dislike the culture. Everything in the True Story of Ah Q is true, and so is everything in Bo Yang's Ugly Chinaman.

Quite simply, the West created the modern world. That is all there is to it. China's challenge is to become more like us. I don't care about making them lose face - losing face is a childish and immature concept. "If you don't do what I want, I will throw ALL my toys out of the cot."

otematata wrote:Never lick you hands after holding a rail for one hour on a bus.

AIB2 wrote:

ChiBob wrote:I think the point is to not force them to "lose" face, not about bowing and scraping to them. If they lose face, they will need to regain face at a later time, and usually at your expense.
By, as you say, not giving an inch, assures you are not doing yourself or your organization any favors. Your way of thinking is naive.

What is naive is thinking that learning how to say "ni hao" and use chopsticks will make these self-centered, lying, cheating people trust you more and treat you better. Do you honestly think your self-degrading attempts to appease them matters at all to them? Before the dinner while you are practicing "fighting for the bill" they have already decided how much to cheat and take advantage of you. When you leave after sipping their tasteless tea, they're laughing at you and your white face, pleased at how much money they've made off of you. These people will sell their children or parents if it means making money or advancing themselves.

ChiBob wrote:You new to China?
I will say that your response is typical, Jam it down your throat Western.

Your response it typical ignorant PC-garbage. The next time someone spits onto your shoe I hope you don't get upset and "jam your opinion" down anyone's throat that this is a backwards and dirty country. And incidentally your strongly worded reply is just as much "jamming" opinions down people throat and being intolerant as hundan's. Stop hiding behind your self-righteous mask of being "tolerant", hypocrite.

ChiBob wrote:Many of us on this site have had these strong opinions once, when 1st over here. Most of also learned our lessons the hard way. Especially when in business negotiations.
If you cannot learn to adapt, and understand the Chinese culture, and the way of business, you will not have much real success...Even if you think you might be.
Time and relationship building leads to business(and personal) success here. Acting like a Western A-hole does not.

You will never "understand" and "adapt" enough for these people until you change your hair color, slant your eyes and change your skin color. Until then, you are the western a**hole, just in denial and emasculated. Your belief otherwise reveals your ignorance and how naive YOU are. The next time you try and get on the subway during rush hour, see how far your understanding and tolerance of this society gets you.

woaihuan wrote:5. Never take food with the wrong end of your chopsticks
The next time you gather around a dinner table with a Chinese host, you may discover that serving spoons for the many communal dishes are non-existent. This is because everyone serves themselves (or others) by turning their chopsticks upside down to take food from the main dishes before putting the food on the individual plates.

This one I also believe is bull.

I've never seen someone flip their sticks to take things from the main dishes. Same end is used for everything.

AIB2 wrote:These people . . . .

AIB2 wrote:

maneo wrote:

AIB2 wrote:These people . . . .

The mantra of the arrogant colonialist.

The blind ranting of a mindless slave of political correctness.

hundan wrote:I find Westerners who just love China have only a superficial experience of the country, meeting only people who want to make money from them, learn English from them, or even marry them. Especially the less attractive foreigners who are here to pick up a younger partner.

hundan wrote:I cannot go to restaurants at 12 for all the screaming and shouting of the "adults" in the restaurant. Going to the restaurant in England is a totally different experience.

AIB2 wrote:

ChiBob wrote:I think the point is to not force them to "lose" face, not about bowing and scraping to them. If they lose face, they will need to regain face at a later time, and usually at your expense.
By, as you say, not giving an inch, assures you are not doing yourself or your organization any favors. Your way of thinking is naive.

What is naive is thinking that learning how to say "ni hao" and use chopsticks will make these self-centered, lying, cheating people trust you more and treat you better. Do you honestly think your self-degrading attempts to appease them matters at all to them? Before the dinner while you are practicing "fighting for the bill" they have already decided how much to cheat and take advantage of you. When you leave after sipping their tasteless tea, they're laughing at you and your white face, pleased at how much money they've made off of you. These people will sell their children or parents if it means making money or advancing themselves.

ChiBob wrote:You new to China?
I will say that your response is typical, Jam it down your throat Western.

Your response it typical ignorant PC-garbage. The next time someone spits onto your shoe I hope you don't get upset and "jam your opinion" down anyone's throat that this is a backwards and dirty country. And incidentally your strongly worded reply is just as much "jamming" opinions down people throat and being intolerant as hundan's. Stop hiding behind your self-righteous mask of being "tolerant", hypocrite.

ChiBob wrote:Many of us on this site have had these strong opinions once, when 1st over here. Most of also learned our lessons the hard way. Especially when in business negotiations.
If you cannot learn to adapt, and understand the Chinese culture, and the way of business, you will not have much real success...Even if you think you might be.
Time and relationship building leads to business(and personal) success here. Acting like a Western A-hole does not.

You will never "understand" and "adapt" enough for these people until you change your hair color, slant your eyes and change your skin color. Until then, you are the western a**hole, just in denial and emasculated. Your belief otherwise reveals your ignorance and how naive YOU are. The next time you try and get on the subway during rush hour, see how far your understanding and tolerance of this society gets you.

AIB2 wrote:

ChiBob wrote:I think the point is to not force them to "lose" face, not about bowing and scraping to them. If they lose face, they will need to regain face at a later time, and usually at your expense.
By, as you say, not giving an inch, assures you are not doing yourself or your organization any favors. Your way of thinking is naive.

What is naive is thinking that learning how to say "ni hao" and use chopsticks will make these self-centered, lying, cheating people trust you more and treat you better. Do you honestly think your self-degrading attempts to appease them matters at all to them? Before the dinner while you are practicing "fighting for the bill" they have already decided how much to cheat and take advantage of you. When you leave after sipping their tasteless tea, they're laughing at you and your white face, pleased at how much money they've made off of you. These people will sell their children or parents if it means making money or advancing themselves.

ChiBob wrote:You new to China?
I will say that your response is typical, Jam it down your throat Western.

Your response it typical ignorant PC-garbage. The next time someone spits onto your shoe I hope you don't get upset and "jam your opinion" down anyone's throat that this is a backwards and dirty country. And incidentally your strongly worded reply is just as much "jamming" opinions down people throat and being intolerant as hundan's. Stop hiding behind your self-righteous mask of being "tolerant", hypocrite.

ChiBob wrote:Many of us on this site have had these strong opinions once, when 1st over here. Most of also learned our lessons the hard way. Especially when in business negotiations.
If you cannot learn to adapt, and understand the Chinese culture, and the way of business, you will not have much real success...Even if you think you might be.
Time and relationship building leads to business(and personal) success here. Acting like a Western A-hole does not.

You will never "understand" and "adapt" enough for these people until you change your hair color, slant your eyes and change your skin color. Until then, you are the western a**hole, just in denial and emasculated. Your belief otherwise reveals your ignorance and how naive YOU are. The next time you try and get on the subway during rush hour, see how far your understanding and tolerance of this society gets you.

LifeMage wrote:Never pass out after drunken intercourse with a hooker in your apartment.

CzechMadeMan wrote:

LifeMage wrote:Never pass out after drunken intercourse with a hooker in your apartment.

True dat, last time I did that it cost me 10K RMB

findus wrote:

CzechMadeMan wrote:

LifeMage wrote:Never pass out after drunken intercourse with a hooker in your apartment.

True dat, last time I did that it cost me 10K RMB

Always have a pre-determined go-to hidey-hole for such occasions.

AIB2, congratulations on making it out of the politically correct bogswamp of ideas. I find Westerners who just love China have only a superficial experience of the country, meeting only people who want to make money from them, learn English from them, or even marry them. Especially the less attractive foreigners who are here to pick up a younger partner. Once your Chinese is good enough and you have indepth conversations with Chinese, you really just how awful this country's so-called culture is. They are jealous of us, basically because they really hate who they are.

Have you ever been to hospital and seen how the Hans rush into the lift before the man on crutches can even get out? One theory of mine with respect to Chinese suowei wenhua is that their cultural behaviour and reactions are those of 5 year old children in the West. I cannot go to restaurants at 12 for all the screaming and shouting of the "adults" in the restaurant. Going to the restaurant in England is a totally different experience. Airline staff get special training on dealing with the Hans - the adults are out of their seats all the time screaming and shouting and if I worked on an airline with Chinese passengers, I would just go mad. Yelang zida - is a Chinese chengyu. It describes how they insolently think they have culture when they have none. If you really had the greatest culture in the world, you would have made the modern world. Look at Hong Kong - an impressive city solely because of British rule. And had it been continually under Chinese rule, what would have been there instead? Reflect on the answer, and bow your heads in shame.

sophiejane wrote:Let's face it, the Chinese must be doing something right...they pretty much own the world.