KalanStar wrote:I've been hanging out with or dating a few Chinese girls. (I call it hanging out, but I think they call it dating.) The ambiguity of our encounters is only the tip of the iceberg. Whenever I mention something they agree. For example, if I say I like going to clubs and dancing, they say they like doing that too. But if I ask them where a good place to go is, or what local DJ do they like etc., I get a blank stare. Or if I say I like reading, they say they like reading too, but again, if I ask them what book they are currently reading, I get the blank stare. So sometimes I ask them what they like to do first and maybe no dancing or reading is mentioned, but when I tell them my habit of doing those things, suddenly they do/like them too.

I know they are trying to please me in their Chinese way, but I'm always left wondering: "Do I really have anything in common with this girl?"

From these experiences, I can see why Chinese women might be easy to take to bed. If I said: "I like f*cking.", probably they'd respond: "I like f*cking too." But that's not what I'm after. I want to get to know them and then we can do the other stuff. The last thing I want is some girl who seems to like everything I do until we are actually f*cking, and then she turns into a totally different person!

Do Chinese women know that some foreign men like their girlfriend to have their own opinions and life? I've been out with Chinese girls who just sit there, want to listen to me talk, and when I ask them a question, they turn red and just say: "You're so handsome!" Although that is good to hear every now and then, I'd rather hear their own thoughts.

So how can a foreigner get a honest answer about easy things like habits and hobbies?

I think a lot of people in China have never developed a clear sense of self-identity. The society and education doesn't encourage it, and entering the rat-race from a young age doesn't help. No time for hobbies and self discovery. So when you ask them questions about themselves, it's a cold call.

But it doesn't mean that there are no independent thinkers out there. Some of them just need to get more comfortable with you to express themselves. Chinese are not trained and used to thinking in the term of 'I', and need more time to process their thoughts and feelings into words when being"called on" to exam themselves. It may take an extra push and encouragement to get a real answer. Self-expressing doesn't come as easy for Chinese as for westerners. Be as specific as possible when you ask questions.

Also, some of the things that you asked may just doesn't exist in their world. Like "a favorite DJ" is such a western thing to me. Dive deeper into the culture and ask questions more related to the Chinese daily life. By showing that you are really interested in their world and how they see things will get you a real answer, while asking their favorite rock band or DJ will make them give you the answer that they think you would like to hear, just to pass the "western culture quiz". Besides, you can always go to interest-specific groups and meetings, where people do actually have a hobby and interested in things.

Or you can always wait for me to get back to Shanghai to hit it off.

midway wrote:Or you can always wait for me to get back to Shanghai to hit it off.

Maybe that's your secret agenda?????

hotsugar wrote:KalanStar,

You dated the wrong women. Let's hang out together!

Yeah sure... get your taste before Midway shows up

KalanStar wrote:

midway wrote:Or you can always wait for me to get back to Shanghai to hit it off.

Maybe that's your secret agenda?????

Finding myself a husband from online?? Sounds like a plan!

franceswang wrote: ... I was totally surprised when a 21-year-old gal told me the other day that her purpose is to marry a rich man who can spoil her for all her life. The point is she is NOT a gold digger, she is not that shallow, and she is actually a nice gal from a normal family. I couldnt help but wondering am I staying at home too long to catch up with the trends - being pretty and marrying a rich guy? what's wrong with our young gals?

Nothing is wrong with those young girls.
You tell me whats wrong?? they should not want to marry rich guys and be spoiled? they should want to marry poor and struggle???

Its a free world, ppl can wish what they want, don't judge.

KalanStar wrote:

hotsugar wrote:KalanStar,

You dated the wrong women. Let's hang out together!

Yeah sure... get your taste before Midway shows up

So hotsugar, will you get out of the way of my master plan for a happy life with KalanStar?

One thing that folks from western countries like the US or Europe rarely realize is that marrying for love and having hobbies (amongst other things) are luxuries that one can only afford after the basic needs are met. Even though majority of the Chinese aren't struggling anymore these days (particularly middle class in Shanghai), but that is only a recent phenomenon. The change in the standard of living for most of these Chinese happened in less than a generation ago, probably in the past 15 years or so. That's why one often hears complaints that the "software" cannot keep up with the "hardware".

Understandable that the younger generation do not have hobbies, as hobbies were luxuries and only recently can they afford such luxuries. Even food was rationed back 15-20 years ago, much less extreme mountain biking...

To be honest, it's really refreshing to read Kalanstar's post - seems like you are genuinely wanting to understand the people (the girls, to be exact).

My 2 cents is just as Midway said, you need to get them to be more comfortable with you to express themselves. Speak in their language at first - i.e. be agreeable and don't make them lose face - and once they feel comfortable with you, then, you can really ask them what you want to know about their lives, culture etc etc - that is, if you really want to get to understand them. Although, instead of asking what their hobbies are, why not paraphrase it and ask about what they do with their spare time? I know a number of Chinese folks who are opinionated and interesting, not so much in western sense that they do a lot of things during their spare time, but that they are knowledgeable and opinionated about certain things - and they've lived all their life in China (with occassional travel abroad).

Having said that though, I sadly have to agree with some of the more satirical comments on the forum that unfortunately some of the younger generation opted for more brainless tv watching rather than being more active physically or mentally... It's an unintended effect of the one child policy is my guess...

Best of luck!

Starting to get some good advice on here. That's good. Let's hope I can put it into action... but after my latest experience, I'm not sure if I got what it takes anymore...

I met this girl at my company's head office a couple of months ago. Right away I felt there was something between us. It was the flutter in my stomach and the way I could make her blush and look away just by smiling at her. Normally I do everything in my power to avoid relationships at work because I see it as extremely unprofessional behaviour, but the image of her stuck in my mind.

A week or so later I got an email from her regarding a business issue. In the email she added at the end that even though we were colleges, I shouldn't be afraid to drop a line and say hello sometimes. So I emailed her back saying I liked talking to her on our previous meeting and maybe we could hangout sometime. A few days later I showed up at the office and it seemed to me that she was avoiding me. I looked over at her desk a couple of times and she immediately put her head down. Near the end of my business, I glanced over to make sure she was still there as I wanted to say hi on my way out. She was still there busily working away. A moment later it was time to leave and I came strolling towards her desk, she immediately got up, without looking at me, and went to the photocopier near the elevators. As I was on my way to the elevators, i thought this was a great opportunity to approach, but as I neared her, she quickly took her papers and went back to her desk walking swiftly past me without saying hi. So I went to the elevator where I her desk was in plain view and I watched for her to glance my way as I waited for the lift,. But my lift arrived and she never looked round to see me. I got on and left. Oops, I thought, I must have crossed the colleague relationship line or maybe she didn't understand what I meant by "hanging-out"? If I got a chance, I assured myself I'd ask her about my email.

Two weeks ago, as luck would have it, the two of us were scheduled to work on a project together for an entire day. I was a bit nervous considering the seemingly cold chill in the air on our last encounter, but we were to meet the day before to discuss some details of the next days work and I thought this would be a good opportunity to gauge her interest in me. Well we met that day and it was as if the previous meeting hadn't occurred. She was warm and friendly and the two of us got on well. There were even a few times where she placed her hand on my leg/knee when talking with me, and I returned the gesture. Everything seemed great and I had a good feeling about the next day.

The next day came, we met early in the morning and spent the entire day including breaks and lunch together. In our free moments we discussed love and life and everything seemed quite friendly and casual, so I asked her to join me for dinner to which she quickly accepted. We had a dinner that stretched on for more than 2 hours with even more conversation and the sharing of some intimate details. Upon finishing our meal, I escorted her home and told her I enjoyed our day together and hoped we could meet again. She seemed eager for us to meet again, and I told her I'd call her before the weekend to see what we could arrange. She went home, as did I, and on the way I realized i hadn't asked her why she'd ignored me that day at the office, but I quickly forgot about my query as my heart was a as full as my belly after our wonderful evening together.

I phoned her during the following week and we talked for a couple hours. We agreed to meet in a few days time for another meal. Everything seemed great. We met and had another enjoyable evening engaging each other in interesting conversation. After our second meal I was getting more excited about the possibility of dating her. We made plans to go out tonight and I couldn't sleep for a few nights before. It was almost like waiting for Christmas!

Then yesterday came and she had to work in another location today outside of Shanghai as someone there had taken ill, so our long awaited 3rd night on the town, there was to be dancing this time, would have to be postponed. She sent me a text saying that it was ok if I wanted to go ahead with my party plans with another girl. I took this to be kind of testing/teasing and quickly informed her that I only wanted to do it with her. She said that was good. I said that of course I was good and I hoped I could be good for her. She didn't quite understand what I meant, so I said directly that I liked her and was interested in her etc.

The conversation turned to a kind of cryptic discussion about our intentions for each other. I described myself as a fox and she described herself as a rabbit, and I said that was good because I liked to chase. A little further on into this somewhat silly conversational analogy, she asked if she said there was absolutely no chance of her wanting to date me, would I keep chasing? I pondered that for a moment or two, then said that if there was no chance then I wouldn't chase any girl as it would never bring happiness to either of us and besides I like being single. I asked her if their really was no chance and she said that her or any girl who listened to me say that I want to be single and would quit, of course the answer would be no. I said, if your answer is no, that's ok, don't worry about me. And that was about the end of our conversation.

Today I chatted with her again, and she said she was sorry that we just met at the wrong time. I asked her what had changed between us, and she said nothing had. So I said, that's good then we can still just be friends. And I haven't spoken with her since

Anyway, so dramatic my life is... I finally get to know a woman, who has hobbies and reads by the way, and it seems to shatter and fall to pieces so easily. Today was supposed to be close and fun. I was hoping to sweep her off her cute little feet and instead I'm on shanghaiexpat relating my sad life for all to pity or mock.

It seems like in the end, when I told her I really liked her, that was when the trouble started... I guess me ain't so smooth wit da chicks eh?? Perhaps I should just date the bleating sheep I meet everyday who, after talking with me for a whole 5 minutes, say "I very very like you", giggle and look at me with a f*ck me face

^ she's wasnt that into u.

chin-up, buddy. keep moving fwd, u'll be fine. plenty of other chix in this city.

KalanStar wrote:I met this girl at my company's head office a couple of months ago. Right I away I felt there was something between us. It was the flutter in my stomach and the way I could make her blush and look away just by smiling at her.

^^Just trying to be colorful. Thanks for the mockery victor ^^

^ Come on man... you sort of made it look like you had some special skill **** going on.. ha ha...

8lrr8 wrote:^ she's wasnt that into u.

chin-up, buddy. keep moving fwd, u'll be fine. plenty of other chix in this city.

Ya figure she wasn't into me??? That's what's confusing. Her having to work was a legitimate issue and she wanted to reschedule... and she seemed upset that I wouldn't chase her if there was no chance of catching her and that I like being single... So actually, I'm wondering if she is into me but thinks I'm just not that into her???

victorinchina wrote:^ Come on man... you sort of made it look like you had some special skill **** going on.. ha ha...

I'm not sure what skill that might be, but it's actually really easy to make Chinese chicks blush, or perhaps it's just me and my horns??

^ It's just you mate..

KalanStar wrote:Ya figure she wasn't into me??? That's what's confusing. Her having to work was a legitimate issue and she wanted to reschedule... and she seemed upset that I wouldn't chase her if there was no chance of catching her and that I like being single... So actually, I'm wondering if she is into me but thinks I'm just not that into her???

u're seeing things that just arent there. she wasnt that into u, period. a chic that's into u wont give u mixed signals (nutcases dont count). furthermore, a chic that's into u wont give up hope simply because u give her the "idea" u're not into her.

u're simply rationalizing her behavior when the simple answer is, as i said before: she didnt really like u all that much from the get-go.

Kalan - initials of this girl? I swear I've went out with this one in the past before.

I'm slightly confused as to why the op, if finding it difficult to connect with Chinese women, given the language barrier/ lack of shared experiences/values or whatever, doesn't just date expats like himself? Or is there a lack of decent expat women?
P.S. new to shanghai expat (new to shanghai in 3 weeks!)... observed forum for a while without participating.. quite enjoy the drama and angst!

^^ Expat women make good friends, but if I dated them, I'd have practically no chance to integrate into Chinese society as my company is foreign and many of my colleagues are too. Also, expat women they usually disappear to their home countries at some point, and to be honest, I find them to be a bit fat.

KalanStar wrote: and to be honest, I find them to be a bit fat.

Chinese girls are really difficult to be with, I find. Huge cultural differences make it tough. It seems they constantly run hot and cold all the time. I know this girl and she will send me text messages that are slightly flirty and inviting then when I reply the stop sign comes up. Face to face she can be all smiles and chatty or cold as a fish. Who knows what goes on in their heads.

I read this differently. Some girls want to get married, and won't date a man who isn't "eligible", even if they like the guy. Maybe she's one of those girls? Several Chinese woman have told me foreigners don't want to get married -- they just want sex. But smart girls who want to get married don't give it away to "bad prospects", even if they, too, want sex.

Her question "would you chase me if there was no hope" might be her attempt to find out how much you like her, and whether you have a romantic streak in you. If you said you'd chase her to the end of the earth, even if there was no chance, she'd be very, very happy. Romantic women are thrilled at the prospect of a man who feels he can't live without them.

I compliment you on your honesty. Too many guys would lie to this girl.

Anyway, that's my take on it.

Wabbit

and to be honest, I find them to be a bit fat.

Do you mean, fat for their own country, or fat for China? Is China really that neurotic about weight, as say Korea? Being very slender in my own country, but being called 'fat like Katherine Heigl' in Korea was quite a shock... lost nearly half a stone due to the brainwashing, was quite dangerous!

My opinion on your brief encounter (and most of these encounters I read about on here) is that it sounds like a whole lot of drama, for very little reward. Whatever the little reward being sought out.

Chinese girls are skinny and they are totally brain-washed by the pollution fashion magazines feed them. They are obsessed about their weight and the desire to lose weight. I've met practically anorexic Chinese girls and heard them complain that they are 'so fat'.

Oh yeah - and drama. Lots of it.

American women, smart or not, often look good until the honeymoon is over, then they gain weight and blame it on being married, 10kgs on average (btw: men there gain 5kgs after marriage on average).

KalanStar wrote:American women, smart or not, often look good until the honeymoon is over, then they gain weight and blame it on being married, 10kgs on average (btw: men there gain 5kgs after marriage on average).

rogerwilson: Thought ya steal my own post did ya??? word for word copied. tisk tisk tisk

rickettyrabbit wrote: Her question "would you chase me if there was no hope" might be her attempt to find out how much you like her, and whether you have a romantic streak in you. If you said you'd chase her to the end of the earth, even if there was no chance, she'd be very, very happy. Romantic women are thrilled at the prospect of a man who feels he can't live without them.

That's what I'm afraid of. I thought she might have wanted to hear a "yes". But to my mind, saying yes, could mean, "I'm a stalker". So I tried to play it cool and considerate..... arg!

So should I continue to pursue her or call it quits???

clayrview wrote:

and to be honest, I find them to be a bit fat.

Do you mean, fat for their own country, or fat for China? Is China really that neurotic about weight, as say Korea? Being very slender in my own country, but being called 'fat like Katherine Heigl' in Korea was quite a shock... lost nearly half a stone due to the brainwashing, was quite dangerous!

My opinion on your brief encounter (and most of these encounters I read about on here) is that it sounds like a whole lot of drama, for very little reward. Whatever the little reward being sought out.

I find a lot of North American women to be fat here or there. I find many German women to be thin here or there. In shanghai I'm seeing a lot of N. American expat women I guess.

As far as drama goes, it wasn't too bad, and I don't do it for a quick reward. I was hoping that over the next month or two we could hook-up, ya know, I try to take it nice and slow to weed out the crazies

I have seen very thin Chinese girls here and some heavier girls. But almost all of them have terrible skin and rotten teeth. I guess it is a matter of priority. Come to think of it, the men are fairly pockmarked and snaggle toothed as well. Don't they have braces and Noxema in China?

I agree with 8lr88, sometimes girls like to play games too. It is very validating. She wasn't feeling your seriousness. And why would you proclaim your monogamy on the almost 3rd date? That is totally stalkerish.

awilli8 wrote:I agree with 8lr88, sometimes girls like to play games too. It is very validating. She wasn't feeling your seriousness. And why would you proclaim your monogamy on the almost 3rd date? That is totally stalkerish.

I didn't proclaim my monogamy... that's always been a hard one for me , perhaps... after 6 months of dating I cold be exclusive.