I think she's got a boyfriend...but she's willing to kick him to the curb if you chase her hard enough. Just my 2 cents

Well guess what! The girl in question showed up at my local office apparently on business. After my work (not my work day) was done at 4:30, I made it a point to talk to her. First I asked how long she'd be in the office for and she said until six, so we got to chatting mostly about work related issues. Well when six rolled around, she spent 20 minutes prettying herself up.

On her way out of the office, I happened to be waiting near the door and she asked me if I was coming with her. So I said yes and quickly grabbed my jacket to follow her. Two steps out the door and she asked me why I didn't clock out. Surprised, because I was sure I had told her I was there until 8, I asked her what she meant. She said she thought I said I was done at 6. So I laughed a bit and said no, I'd just walk her to the metro and then I'd go back to finish my day. She seemed a bit shocked at this. So I told her if she wanted to know something she should ask and started to tease her about making excuses to show up at my office just because she wanted me to take her to dinner.

Anyway, I continued to walk her to the metro and asked her about her plans for Wednesday as it is a day off for both of us. I asked her if she wanted to go to the forest park at the end of line 8 to see if we could catch a glimpse of the reintroduced deer that were released there last week. First she said that Wednesday was too far away to make plans yet. and a few sentences later said that I should take another girl who likes to make plans so far in advance. I responded that I didn't want to go with anyone else and asked her to think it over. By that point we were at the metro station and I bid her goodnight.

Now I'm left wondering if she really did just show up here to get me to ask her to dinner and if she's now upset that I wasn't off work at 6 as she'd thought. And perhaps she could have left at 4:30, but was in fact waiting around for me to finish work. She did seem a disappointed when I informed her I was staying at the office until 8pm. Anyway, I'm confused as usual

HAMLover wrote:I think she's got a boyfriend...but she's willing to kick him to the curb if you chase her hard enough. Just my 2 cents

Perhaps... from what I've been able to gather, she had a bf for 6 months last year and that was the only one in 4 years. I asked her about this and she told me that she had been too busy with her career to bother dating and that the last guy broke her heart. His family disaproved of her because she is not Shanghainese.

KalanStar wrote:

rickettyrabbit wrote: Her question "would you chase me if there was no hope" might be her attempt to find out how much you like her, and whether you have a romantic streak in you. If you said you'd chase her to the end of the earth, even if there was no chance, she'd be very, very happy. Romantic women are thrilled at the prospect of a man who feels he can't live without them.

That's what I'm afraid of. I thought she might have wanted to hear a "yes". But to my mind, saying yes, could mean, "I'm a stalker". So I tried to play it cool and considerate..... arg!

So should I continue to pursue her or call it quits???

Tough call.

I've asked several women about this common situation. Here's what they say.

You ask her if she can accept dating a man who doesn't want to get married. If she really wants to get married and she's a very disciplined girl, she says "no". And you go your separate ways.

But what if she says "yes"? Maybe she actually means it. But it's more likely she's thinking "When he sees how loveable I am, he'll change his mind". (Every woman I asked about this told me this is what is really going on in most women's minds.)

So you date her, it all goes well for a while, but sooner or later she develops expectations. She starts to "nag" you about it. (Actually, it isn't "nagging" -- it's "Proactive Memory Stimulation", or PMS for short. copyright 2009, Ricketty Rabbit)

In the end, you feel you took a risk by telling her the truth, but you feel she lied to you. She ends up feeling angry and betrayed because you took everything she had to offer and gave her "nothing" in return.

But you could always ask her if she would still date a man who doesn't want to get married, then tell her you won't go out with her unless she promises she's not thinking you'll fall in love with her and change your mind. She'll still get hurt, but you were totally up front with her, and it was her choice to accept your conditions.

Wabbit

rickettyrabbit wrote:
Tough call.

I've asked several women about this common situation. Here's what they say.

You ask her if she can accept dating a man who doesn't want to get married. If she really wants to get married and she's a very disciplined girl, she says "no". And you go your separate ways.

But what if she says "yes"? Maybe she actually means it. But it's more likely she's thinking "When he sees how loveable I am, he'll change his mind". (Every woman I asked about this told me this is what is really going on in most women's minds.)

So you date her, it all goes well for a while, but sooner or later she develops expectations. She starts to "nag" you about it. (Actually, it isn't "nagging" -- it's "Proactive Memory Stimulation", or PMS for short. copyright 2009, Ricketty Rabbit)

In the end, you feel you took a risk by telling her the truth, but you feel she lied to you. She ends up feeling angry and betrayed because you took everything she had to offer and gave her "nothing" in return.

But you could always ask her if she would still date a man who doesn't want to get married, then tell her you won't go out with her unless she promises she's not thinking you'll fall in love with her and change your mind. She'll still get hurt, but you were totally up front with her, and it was her choice to accept your conditions.

Wabbit

Sounds like my last serious relationship. I lived with a Japanese woman for 1 year. She didn't have a job and soon after we moved in together, she quit going to school and devoted her time to becoming the perfect housewife. After a year, she expected to marry me. We fought for 2 months about it and in the end she went back to Japan, but still didn't want to break-up. After a couple months I tried to dump her but she refused to accept it and insisted that she was still my girlfriend. A couple months later she secretly returned to the country/city I was living in to stalk me. One day she phoned me and told me she was in Japan and just wanted to chat. a week later she called again with the same story, but I heard people speaking English in the background, so I asked her to tell me the truth about her location, and as it turned out, she was hold up in a hotel down the street from me for weeks! Things got a little crazier then, but that's not important now.

Now I'm interested in a woman who I never said I didn't want to marry. In fact that's what I'd like to do sometime in the next couple years. So I'm trying to find the right woman, not just any woman! I have no intention of going to my home country in the next 10 years, so I'll not just use a girl and then disappear. I'm quite picky and my current female interest is quite intriguing, but I don't know her well enough yet, and, since she's making me a bit crazy, I figure either she might be the one, or she might be an even bigger mistake than the Japanese woman! I still don't know since I still don't know her well enough. We'll see.

I'm split about 50/50 on quitting my pursuit right now, or trying harder to see if I can find out her true mind. Yesterday I wanted to quit until she showed up at my office and we got on great. But today, after a good nights rest, I wonder if I should call it quits and devote my time to something more productive, like expanding my business network and making money!

Free advice is worth every cent you paid for it, so here goes.

Humans are "genetically programmed", by millennia of evolution, to fall in love. The human race may not have survived without it. It's hard-wired into our genes, and once it gets a hold on us, we're almost powerless to resist it.

The human brain is a wonderful organ, but once our biochemistry bathes it in love chemicals, it goes wonky. So do yourself a huge favour. Use your brain to assess compatibility with any woman you might get serious about BEFORE your biology kicks in and makes you crazy about her. Find out what makes happy marriages, and develop a set of questions you and she can talk about. Sure, it sounds un-romantic, but it won't feel that way if you and she find you're compatible. In fact, it will INCREASE the power of romance rather than decrease it.

I'm not going to do your homework for you, but a few examples may help. A few areas stand out as being vitally important when a man from North America is chasing (or being chased by?) a woman from China.

1) MONEY: How should a married couple reach investment decisions? Should it be true consensus, should the man make the decision with input from his wife, should he make the decisions alone, or should the woman make the decision? What about spending decisions? Who should manage household finances, and how? Should the man give his paycheck to his wife, and receive an allowance for his discretionary spending? The other way around? Should they both pool their salaries and spend to a budget? Or? I think you get the drift. At the risk of stating the obvious, many Chinese women will expect the man to turn his paycheck over to them, and to give him an allowance. Some will think he should do that, and if they work, they should keep their salary to shop in the Brand malls. Can you be happy with that?

2) FAMILY: If one of her family members (mother, father, sibling if she has one, grandparents, cousin, etc.) has financial problems, does she want you to pony up cash to help them? Likewise, if your family has financial problems, does she expect you to help? What are the limits on this, if any?

3) INTIMACY/"STICKINESS": On a scale of 1 (low) to 5 (high) how much does she like a) hugging in private? b) hugging in public? c) kissing in private? d) kissing in public? e) holding hands in private/public? f) cuddling while watching a movie, TV, or listening to music? Etc.

4) DISAGREEMENTS: How should a couple settle disagreements? Should the person who is "right" win? Does personal preference matter? What if you really can't agree -- what should you do?

Etc.

Do this, and it will save you a lot of grief in the future.

Wabbit

rickettyrabbit wrote:Free advice is worth every cent you paid for it, so here goes.

Humans are "genetically programmed", by millennia of evolution, to fall in love. The human race may not have survived without it. It's hard-wired into our genes, and once it gets a hold on us, we're almost powerless to resist it.

The human brain is a wonderful organ, but once our biochemistry bathes it in love chemicals, it goes wonky. So do yourself a huge favour. Use your brain to assess compatibility with any woman you might get serious about BEFORE your biology kicks in and makes you crazy about her. Find out what makes happy marriages, and develop a set of questions you and she can talk about. Sure, it sounds un-romantic, but it won't feel that way if you and she find you're compatible. In fact, it will INCREASE the power of romance rather than decrease it.

I'm not going to do your homework for you, but a few examples may help. A few areas stand out as being vitally important when a man from North America is chasing (or being chased by?) a woman from China.

1) MONEY: How should a married couple reach investment decisions? Should it be true consensus, should the man make the decision with input from his wife, should he make the decisions alone, or should the woman make the decision? What about spending decisions? Who should manage household finances, and how? Should the man give his paycheck to his wife, and receive an allowance for his discretionary spending? The other way around? Should they both pool their salaries and spend to a budget? Or? I think you get the drift. At the risk of stating the obvious, many Chinese women will expect the man to turn his paycheck over to them, and to give him an allowance. Some will think he should do that, and if they work, they should keep their salary to shop in the Brand malls. Can you be happy with that?

2) FAMILY: If one of her family members (mother, father, sibling if she has one, grandparents, cousin, etc.) has financial problems, does she want you to pony up cash to help them? Likewise, if your family has financial problems, does she expect you to help? What are the limits on this, if any?

3) INTIMACY/"STICKINESS": On a scale of 1 (low) to 5 (high) how much does she like a) hugging in private? b) hugging in public? c) kissing in private? d) kissing in public? e) holding hands in private/public? f) cuddling while watching a movie, TV, or listening to music? Etc.

4) DISAGREEMENTS: How should a couple settle disagreements? Should the person who is "right" win? Does personal preference matter? What if you really can't agree -- what should you do?

Etc.

Do this, and it will save you a lot of grief in the future.

Wabbit

good post
just remind me the impression:
Chinese think about all these before they fall in love and start a serious relationship~Americans(or westerners?) make love go before the reality ~~ apparently, the latter is more free market and the former resembles the central-planning economy....

KalanStar wrote:

8lrr8 wrote:^ she's wasnt that into u.

chin-up, buddy. keep moving fwd, u'll be fine. plenty of other chix in this city.

Ya figure she wasn't into me??? That's what's confusing. Her having to work was a legitimate issue and she wanted to reschedule... and she seemed upset that I wouldn't chase her if there was no chance of catching her and that I like being single... So actually, I'm wondering if she is into me but thinks I'm just not that into her???

Mate,
it is quite simple CHINESE GIRL IS TRYING TO CLOSE THE DEAL (A.K.A. 'Shopping for a husband') cause you said that you like to be single well she is not going to waist her time on you when she can move onto a more suitable 'laowai'.
Business are business my friend

Good Luck to you

missjane wrote:good post
just remind me the impression:
Chinese think about all these before they fall in love and start a serious relationship~Americans(or westerners?) make love go before the reality ~~ apparently, the latter is more free market and the former resembles the central-planning economy....

I'd say you're right about the more practical, less romantic mindset of Chinese vs. Westerners. But your central planning vs. free market is a non-starter. I'd say it's more like doing something without planning vs. making a good plan before you start. Free market companies that leap before they look don't last long.

But as for Chinese thinking about all these things before they fall in love, they may think about it, but I've heard that they don't discuss these things openly together. If this is generally true, it's not much good to think about something on your own, but never talk to your partner about it.

What makes me mention this is a comment I've heard from several Chinese women who married ABCs or white westerners. They said men in China don't say what they're thinking. You have to "read between the lines" and guess what they really mean. These women told me they found it very refreshing to meet western men who would come right out and say what they think. I can't comment on whether they're generally right -- I'm merely relating what they told me.

Wabbit

no comment on how, generally, couples communicate between each other.
but i'm sure the younger generations with more exposure to western cultures are more inclined to talk and decide together how to move forward.

btw, I've seen one party listen more to another 'coz of their different financial status, and usually the one with deeper pockets has more say. Whether it's the husband or the wife really differs case by case.

condesa wrote:

KalanStar wrote:

8lrr8 wrote:^ she's wasnt that into u.

chin-up, buddy. keep moving fwd, u'll be fine. plenty of other chix in this city.

Ya figure she wasn't into me??? That's what's confusing. Her having to work was a legitimate issue and she wanted to reschedule... and she seemed upset that I wouldn't chase her if there was no chance of catching her and that I like being single... So actually, I'm wondering if she is into me but thinks I'm just not that into her???

Mate,
it is quite simple CHINESE GIRL IS TRYING TO CLOSE THE DEAL (A.K.A. 'Shopping for a husband') cause you said that you like to be single well she is not going to waist her time on you when she can move onto a more suitable 'laowai'.
Business are business my friend

Good Luck to you

This isn't rocket science.

Why else would any self-respecting guy buy his "girlfriend" clothes, accesories, hardware, whatever?

Answer: So when its over (snif snif, breakup,) all debts are paid in full.

missjane wrote:no comment on how, generally, couples communicate between each other.
but i'm sure the younger generations with more exposure to western cultures are more inclined to talk and decide together how to move forward.

btw, I've seen one party listen more to another 'coz of their different financial status, and usually the one with deeper pockets has more say. Whether it's the husband or the wife really differs case by case.

I think you're right about younger people having different ideas than their parents. It's true in every culture, but it's especially true in China! The parents of a 25 year old today lived through the cultural revolution and were born before the one-child policy. Most were relatively poor, had siblings, and in their first few years, were brought up under the "old" Chinese values before the insanity of the cultural revolution turned logic upside down, and before "socialism with Chinese values" (a.k.a. free enterprise) brought "being rich is glorious" to China.

Today's 25-year olds are far more materialistic and have much, much higher material expectations. They want their own apartment NOW, and want to go to Starbucks every day dressed in big brands. They're far more "brand" conscious than their Western counterparts!

And I think young women's expectations for a fairy-tale marriage are quite high. You know -- meet a wonderful guy, he's devoted to them, he is very romantic, takes her on vacations to the Maldives, buys her a big diamond, proposes to her in the restaurant at the top of the Grand Hyatt, they have a huge wedding that costs at least RMB 300,000, their wedding photos alone cost RMB 30,000, and they live happily ever after. Consumer marketing companies do everything in their power to cultivate these expectations. Every wedding like this brings an orgy of spending, so it's great for business.

If anything, I think these young people are losing the more practical approach to marriage which their parents had.

I also think you're right about "he/she who has the gold, rules" in relationships (China and elsewhere). . . but only in the beginning. After a few years, the power of the wallet declines. So does the power of being smarter/more powerful than your spouse. Initially, she (typically) looks up to her slightly older, more accomplished, and more powerful spouse. But after a few years, she loses her awe of him, and starts to push for equality.

And this leads to unhappiness because the wealthier/smarter/more powerful partner thinks the other is becoming "difficult". I've heard it . . . "you used to be so agreeable, but now you always argue with me"!

What a mess! What happens to romance when there are power struggles between husband and wife? It goes out the window.

So, for KalenStar, have these frank discussions with any woman you could be serious about. Start an HONEST relationship and don't play games or accept your partner playing games. Some women won't like it. Good! Find out early if an honest relationship won't fly. And dump them FAST, before your biology gets a grip on your brain.

Wabbit

Show your heart.

rickettyrabbit wrote:So, for KalenStar, have these frank discussions with any woman you could be serious about. Start an HONEST relationship and don't play games or accept your partner playing games. Some women won't like it. Good! Find out early if an honest relationship won't fly. And dump them FAST, before your biology gets a grip on your brain.

No relationship is honest. If people didn't delude themselves with little white lies, society would crumble... and love is a game... but I get your point. Unfortunately, only having been on a couple of dates and can't say I know her well enough to say weather games are being played or not

Anyway, I'm usually quite frank and straightforward (must have been those years I spent in Germany) but that approach doesn't always attract women. One has to get to know someone before they can be "honest" and "game-less", but the "getting to know each other" stage usually requires some mystery and dreaming on both people's parts, or?

Honestly, I think once we reach 30 we're too smart and tired to ever start a new relationship if we honestly look at the costs vs benefits of the whole dating game. Having said that, I'm gonna pass on this chick that I've been infatuated with and trying to get to know as it just isn't worth it

Yes, nobody is completely honest . . . at least nobody who still has friends. But it's critical to be honest about important things -- not just what matters to you, but equally about what matters to her. It makes a big difference in the long term.

I agree that around 30, people start becoming more careful and wary in relationships. But that doesn't mean they become more honest -- it just means they make their own decisions taking more dimensions into account.

Honesty with tact builds trust. When a woman feels you're honest and really trusts you, the sex is a lot better. But trust is like topsoil -- it takes a long time to build up, and it can be washed away in one bad storm.

Wabbit

Wabbit.. oh you so smart. You slightly redeem the male species (if you are, in fact, male) Maybe you should run a seminar for your cave-man like brothers. To think you might be able to spread emotional maturity! True props.

Thanks, clayrview, but I'm a slow learner. It took me a long time to figure all this out, but I'll never forget it. When you experience the whole-hearted love of a wonderful woman, what matters most to you is to never take her for granted and NEVER betray her.

Wabbit

Replying original poster...

Sounds to me like she's confused, on the one hand she's obviously interested in you. But on the other, she seems a little unsure of what she wants... To me, she seems like a pretty decent girl, hardworking, and interesting.. perhaps more on the conservative side (not when you said she put her hand on your knee though!)...

The "ignoring you at the office" part is quite understandable, I think. She does that because she is somewhat embarrased and doesn't want to be a topic of conversation in the office (doesn't want to lose her face). The "fox and rabbit" conversation - even though I do think that was a little odd - perhaps she's just trying to gauge if you're a serious person or more like a player (a laowai's stereotype unfortunately)...

The stories after, I think she's still interested in you, but is even more unsure since it seems like you cooled off...

That's my take... =) good luck!

How old is she btw?

e11ie wrote:Replying original poster...

Sounds to me like she's confused, on the one hand she's obviously interested in you. But on the other, she seems a little unsure of what she wants... To me, she seems like a pretty decent girl, hardworking, and interesting.. perhaps more on the conservative side (not when you said she put her hand on your knee though!)...

The "ignoring you at the office" part is quite understandable, I think. She does that because she is somewhat embarrased and doesn't want to be a topic of conversation in the office (doesn't want to lose her face). The "fox and rabbit" conversation - even though I do think that was a little odd - perhaps she's just trying to gauge if you're a serious person or more like a player (a laowai's stereotype unfortunately)...

The stories after, I think she's still interested in you, but is even more unsure since it seems like you cooled off...

That's my take... =) good luck!

How old is she btw?

Yeah, I've cooled off. I'm worried about wasting my time and losing face myself. If she actually likes me, which I thought she did, then she'll have to make the next move because it seems I have no idea what I'm doing.

And most women I meet think I'm a player. I've always seemed to get cast in that role by girls who barely know me. I haven't had a girlfriend in almost a year but if I meet a girl she figures I've bagged a half dozen or so in the past month! And when I do have a gf, they usually become psychotically jealous and accuse me of all sorts of infidelity. In fact, in our very first conversation, the girl I've been posting about asked me if I was a player, to which I responded, "I wish I was. My life would be a helluvalot easier"

She's 30.

KalanStar wrote:I haven't had a girlfriend in almost a year but if I meet a girl she figures I've bagged a half dozen or so in the past month!

Are these mutually exclusive?

KalanStar wrote:
And most women I meet think I'm a player. I've always seemed to get cast in that role by girls who barely know me. I haven't had a girlfriend in almost a year but if I meet a girl she figures I've bagged a half dozen or so in the past month! And when I do have a gf, they usually become psychotically jealous and accuse me of all sorts of infidelity. In fact, in our very first conversation, the girl I've been posting about asked me if I was a player, to which I responded, "I wish I was. My life would be a helluvalot easier"

She's 30.

. . tick . . . tick . . . tick . . . that biological time clock really affects mindset and behaviour unless, of course, she doesn't want to have a child.

Anyway, on another thread a woman asked why guys try to hit on her. I said she must look or act sexy, even if she isn't doing it intentionally. Same for you -- if they think you're a player, there's something about you that gives them the idea. It could simply be a combination of your age, appearance (especially if you are well dressed and groomed), where they think you hang out, or how you act. Or maybe it's your disinterest in marriage? I mean, after all, why would a non-player want to date but not marry?

Maybe to women, a player IS somebody who wants to date but not marry??? If so, by that definition you ARE a player, right?

There's an easy way to dispel this myth, of course. Don't put the moves on them! Tell them you like them and would like to know them better. Flirt and sweet talk (without lying, of course!), but don't touch for at least 3 dates. Will they think you're gay? No, you can disabuse them of this notion by sending them a text message after a date telling them you think they're a beautiful, interesting and very desirable woman. Put all your "heat" into words, not into actions. After a few dates like that, the third base coach will be waving you home as soon as you round first base.

Wabbit

rickettyrabbit wrote:. . tick . . . tick . . . tick . . . that biological time clock really affects mindset and behaviour unless, of course, she doesn't want to have a child.

Anyway, on another thread a woman asked why guys try to hit on her. I said she must look or act sexy, even if she isn't doing it intentionally. Same for you -- if they think you're a player, there's something about you that gives them the idea. It could simply be a combination of your age, appearance (especially if you are well dressed and groomed), where they think you hang out, or how you act. Or maybe it's your disinterest in marriage? I mean, after all, why would a non-player want to date but not marry?

Maybe to women, a player IS somebody who wants to date but not marry??? If so, by that definition you ARE a player, right?

I actually do want to get married. Why did you get the idea I didn't? Perhaps I put out an 'I don't want to get married vibe"??

rickettyrabbit wrote:There's an easy way to dispel this myth, of course. Don't put the moves on them! Tell them you like them and would like to know them better. Flirt and sweet talk (without lying, of course!), but don't touch for at least 3 dates. Will they think you're gay? No, you can disabuse them of this notion by sending them a text message after a date telling them you think they're a beautiful, interesting and very desirable woman. Put all your "heat" into words, not into actions. After a few dates like that, the third base coach will be waving you home as soon as you round first base.

Yes I am well groomed and take pride in my appearance. I get my hair done at the best salons, wear fashionable expensive clothes and accessories. And always use a fragrance from Hugo, CK, or something similar. I don't generally put moves on women, unless telling them they "look good" counts. I guess I am a bit flirty... I do smile at girls. I make time to listen to them as well.

Seems like your giving the same advice I usually give, i.e. don't move too fast... but it ain't working with the girl I've posted about, go figure

And I get hit on all the time. It just seems the one I liked was difficult.

lutze wrote:

KalanStar wrote:I haven't had a girlfriend in almost a year but if I meet a girl she figures I've bagged a half dozen or so in the past month!

Are these mutually exclusive?

Not sure what you mean here? I haven't bagged anyone since I got out of my last relationship. And this is the longest I've been single since I was 15!

KalanStar wrote:I actually do want to get married. Why did you get the idea I didn't? Perhaps I put out an 'I don't want to get married vibe"??

This:

KalanStar wrote: . . . A little further on into this somewhat silly conversational analogy, she asked if she said there was absolutely no chance of her wanting to date me, would I keep chasing? I pondered that for a moment or two, then said that if there was no chance then I wouldn't chase any girl as it would never bring happiness to either of us and besides I like being single. I asked her if their really was no chance and she said that her or any girl who listened to me say that I want to be single and would quit, of course the answer would be no. I said, if your answer is no, that's ok, don't worry about me. And that was about the end of our conversation.

You may be sending out mixed messages.

Wabbit

^^ Ahhh. I see. ^^

I just meant that, I'm not uncomfortable being single. I used to be, you know. If I were single I'd feel like I was incomplete and be desperate to hook-up with a new girl. I think it was because I didn't know myself very well then and didn't know what I wanted out of life and love. Now I'm quite comfortable with myself, so I'm quite comfortable being single. I know what I want.

Perhaps, I shouldn't tell girls I like being single in the future??? And t5he language barrier here could be adding to the confusion of such statements. I was quite surprised when she responded that any girl would say no to me after hearing what I said. i thought I was sending the message that I was emotionally mature and comfortable with myself, and she probably thought I was just looking for a roll in the hay.

^ Find a better explanation for your status. How about "I'm single, and not unhappy being so, but would like to find the right woman to settle down. However, I'm not in a hurry. I want to marry only once so I want both of us to be sure we're right for each other before marrying."

Works for me.

Wabbit

In addition to agreeing with the Rabbit... =)

Unfortunately you live in Shanghai... who can blame her or any other girls trying to minimize the chance of a heartbreak by casting you aside as a player? It's just a method of protection... Just look at the forum here, a great deal of the men and a great deal of the women very much fit the stereotype!

If anything, you being a foreigner in Shanghai, being well groom, flirtatious, and all that, scream stereotype. So, in my opinion, you will have to do more than just "being yourself"... =)

I thought she was younger for some reasons....

Best!

e11ie wrote: So, in my opinion, you will have to do more than just "being yourself"... =)

Great how can I be more than myself???

Maybe I should quit looking good... maybe start shopping at the fake markets, hiking my trousers up really high and stop combing my hair??? Then I'll get some woman who wants to "fix" me. Would that be better? I'm not sure.

The girl in question is really quite fashionable herself, that's one of the things that initially sparked my interest in her.

PS. There is a colleague of mine, a Westerner who dresses just like a 60 year old Chinese man and he's happily married. What a geek though.

Marakanis wrote:Overall though, if you're looking for more intelligent women, I'd look in places like Sweden and Finland, where the women are a lot more spirited and encouraged to follow their dreams and... well hell, to have dreams at all. I'd also look in areas of the U.S. towards the coasts. New York, California, Washington. Canada isn't a bad place to check either. France if you can't stand stuck-up people. Certain areas of Britain, etc.

Basically places where women's rights, feminism, and the women's suffrage movements happened..

good point. but lots of expat men from those places wind up here, ones that really appreciate the submissiveness and blankness, but then they want some of the old. in the end, it's all about moderation. i'd say though, the women from those countries and places you listed are also more likely to dump you for a woman or have excessive theoretical problems with your relationship while the typical twenties chinese woman have none whatsoever.

karab123 wrote:good point. but lots of expat men from those places wind up here, ones that really appreciate the submissiveness and blankness, but then they want some of the old. in the end, it's all about moderation. i'd say though, the women from those countries and places you listed are also more likely to dump you for a woman or have excessive theoretical problems with your relationship while the typical twenties chinese woman have none whatsoever.

In my opinion, Chinese women are quite strong and liberated compared with their Japanese and Korean cousins. And you are right, women from the places Marakanis listed are more likely to dump you for a woman. Having lived in the Western N. America area, I can say that there are an awful lot of dykes about. And having dated Northern Europeans, I'd say that they are the ones who 'wear the pants' in a relationship. But I don't find the Chinese flavor to be particularly blank, although when in their 20's they may be blindly sold on 'romantic love' and don't have enough perspective to bring up any theoretical problems with the relationship, but what happens after their 20's? I've heard so many housewives in Shanghai reaming the piss out of their suddenly mute husbands. I've never heard a nationality of woman that can yell louder and longer than a disgruntled Chinese housewife