I have been offered a job in Shanghai earning ~43,800 RMB per month plus some kind of allowance for housing and transportation. This is about half my current US salary so I don't have a clear picture of what (if anything) I will be giving up in the way of lifestyle. Judging from some of the other posts, it sounds like a good salary. But how good is the question? A friend (who does not want me to take the job) says that I can not have a good standard of living there for the money. I am not a student and don't want to live in a 2 room flat and so on. I am excited about the prospect of living in Shanghai but am I making a mistake standard of living wise?

Thanks in advance.

Depends if you live by yourself or you have a family,
if you will be alone, no need to worry. You gonna be more than ok.

considering the average local wage is about 2000 a month i think you will be more than fine

justinbirm wrote:considering the average local wage is about 2000 a month i think you will be more than fine

Guess it is an outdated figure. The minimum monthly salary in Shanghai has been raised to RMB 1120.

Anyway, with OP's salary, he will be living a very comfortable life in Shanghai.

Doroto wrote:

justinbirm wrote:considering the average local wage is about 2000 a month i think you will be more than fine

Guess it is an outdated figure. The minimum monthly salary in Shanghai has been raised to RMB 1120.

Anyway, with OP's salary, he will be living a very comfortable life in Shanghai.

i didnt mention anything about minimum wage i just said the average wage for a local.

standardissues wrote:I have been offered a job in Shanghai earning ~43,800 RMB per month plus some kind of allowance for housing and transportation. This is about half my current US salary so I don't have a clear picture of what (if anything) I will be giving up in the way of lifestyle. Judging from some of the other posts, it sounds like a good salary. But how good is the question? A friend (who does not want me to take the job) says that I can not have a good standard of living there for the money. I am not a student and don't want to live in a 2 room flat and so on. I am excited about the prospect of living in Shanghai but am I making a mistake standard of living wise?

Thanks in advance.

Yes, the RMB amount you'll be getting here can afford you a respectable lifestyle, provided you are single and no major financial obligations back home. However, please check if 43,800 a month is after tax (both here in China and in the US). There are many other things to consider, and not just the surface amount of your paycheck. For examples, medical/dental insurance, return flights, and career growth/path. I mentioned the last one because I read that this amount is "about half" of your current salary. I don't know why you would take a job that places you outside your comfort zone for half of your salary (unless we're talking of experienced peeps that companies are trying to get rid off, but might be useful in their overseas operations).

aLeGna wrote:

standardissues wrote:I have been offered a job in Shanghai earning ~43,800 RMB per month plus some kind of allowance for housing and transportation. This is about half my current US salary so I don't have a clear picture of what (if anything) I will be giving up in the way of lifestyle. Judging from some of the other posts, it sounds like a good salary. But how good is the question? A friend (who does not want me to take the job) says that I can not have a good standard of living there for the money. I am not a student and don't want to live in a 2 room flat and so on. I am excited about the prospect of living in Shanghai but am I making a mistake standard of living wise?

Thanks in advance.

Yes, the RMB amount you'll be getting here can afford you a respectable lifestyle, provided you are single and no major financial obligations back home. However, please check if 43,800 a month is after tax (both here in China and in the US). There are many other things to consider, and not just the surface amount of your paycheck. For examples, medical/dental insurance, return flights, and career growth/path. I mentioned the last one because I read that this amount is "about half" of your current salary. I don't know why you would take a job that places you outside your comfort zone for half of your salary (unless we're talking of experienced peeps that companies are trying to get rid off, but might be useful in their overseas operations).

Thanks for the response. Same company, same grade, similar job pays about 1/2 in China. I guess what I am asking is this more or less the same standard of living as 2x salary in silicon valley california? I am clearly not considering the move for the money - more for the experience of living and working in China. Sounds like you think it doesn't pencil out financialy.

justinbirm wrote:considering the average local wage is about 2000 a month i think you will be more than fine

Seems like it. I imagine that life on the average income is pretty hard though so it may not mean a lot in comparison.

johnwatine wrote:Depends if you live by yourself or you have a family,
if you will be alone, no need to worry. You gonna be more than ok.

I have no kids to send to school anyway.

Taking a 50% salary cut is too much in my opinion (any salary cut is too much). Are you being transferred with the same company you are working for back home?

You'll have a great time here but gotta think about your career going back. Also, I presume on US$150k a year you are in a relatively senior position? I'm not so sure many companies view overseas experience as valuable experience. You'll laso be completely out of the loop contacts wise when you go back.

Not worth it.

standardissues wrote:Thanks for the response. Same company, same grade, similar job pays about 1/2 in China.

You answered my question already. Ha.

50% salary cut within same company is pure nuts.

20k rmb can rent an decent apartment at least 3bed rooms. if you not go to restaurant or someplace everyday, 10k is too much for you to spend.

Assuming both USD150,000 pa and the offered RMB43,800 pm are pre-tax, taking into account the lower tax rate and the cheaper living cost in China (some expats may disagree with 'cheaper' living cost as SH can be expensive, but i found that a balance of local and Western living style works out to be cheaper still, of cos it is subjective to ur original standard of living), you may found that your disposable income could end up to being on par or not too much worse off than living in US.

Purely from the 'affordable' living point of view, RMB43,800 + allowance is quite livable in SH, even pre-tax. If you don't have much family baggage and financial obligations back in US, and you are coming to SH more for the experience than money, then you are not on a bad starting point. Having said that, relocating within the same company for a similar role, the company is ripping you off for merely offering half of your current salary. Also when you do leave China one day, (esp if with a different employer) how do you go back up to your original pay level?

To give a rough idea, for RMB 43,800 pm, personal income tax would be RMB 9,165 pm, on a 12month pay basis, your post tax salary would be RMB415,620. Base on my own personal experience, RMB200,000 pa provides a pretty good living in Shanghai, (including travelling for pleasure but excluding rental)for a single person. So if your allowance covers housing, would you be happy with RMB215,000 left in the pocket a year (just over USD30,000)? How does that compare to your current saving living in US on a USD150,000 package?

I don't know how old you are and how senior your position is, so it's hard to comment, the offer doesn't sound great, but to answer your specific question, it's enough to live on fairly decently. The rest you just need to weight up your personal goals. Though you should at least try to get a decent relocation package and have your allowance cover your housing in SH and part living cost. 50% salary cut is just ridiculous.

Usually someone making close to what they are making in a western country would be a good deal coming here ( including housing and transportation allowances ). It all depends on what kind of lifestyle you adopt. If you don't buy a car and start driving everywhere, if you live in a decent place for say 10K RMB a month rather than 30K a month rent, if you eat locally (including cooking at home ) as much as going out to 300+RMB per plate dining, you will save quite a bit. It is much easier to save money here and still live well. We do it and save more than we ever could in the US.

43+ thousand per month plus allowances is a very high wage indeed. Methinks you can live like royalty! Don't go paying 20k a month for a 5k flat like most whales in your position do, and you'll be fine.

Yeah, sure you want to experience the life in China, and you're not just after the money. But, as others said, 50% cut is just too much. After your stint here, what happens? Are you fully stable financially (your savings, 401(k), retirement, insurances, etc.), and can afford to "lose" half of what you are earning now? Again, it's up to you, your personal/career goals. Is it worth the move, and the 50% salary cut?

Give yourself enough time to think about this.

I'd pony up to your boss and make a counter offer. sure you'll seriously consider the position if they pay you the amount you quoted 元43万/mth plus COLA etc, and they pay the other half of your current salary into your nominated US bank account. That seems only fair. As I see it, if you are on around US$150k/annum now - why would you even consider taking a position for half your current earnings just to come to PRC? Especially considering most are offered higher salry or incentives to come here. OK, so I know some companies have gone to a localisation strategy for management in these tough economic times to reduce costs and become more lean. But that has and does not always work, as companies find out the hard way. Refer to what just recently happened to BHP China executives. Many might say oh, China is not a hardship - but they're blowing smoke out their a** they don't know the half of it!
Consider that it's much harder to conduct and co-ordinate business here especially if you have little to no local language ability, and even if you do, you'll always be an outsider - always! Also the time difference reporting back to the US side will take it's toll sooner or later. Your work will not be anything remotely like 8-5. Potential risk to your health is another factor, that very few consider or factor that aspect in, unless they have a family in tow, or suffer a chronic illness already. China's air quality is not great in many of the cities, no matter when referring to first, second or third tier. Some are just a little better than others, but all-in-all most of the air is heavily laced with dust/dirt pariticles, herbaside and pesticide residue/overspray and many heavy metals and other contaminants. All these nasties we suck into our lungs, akin to what tobacco smokers do to the lung tissue over time. Have you ever seen a set of healthy lungs compared to those of a smoker. I have and it isn't pretty. The lungs of polluted cities almost resemble those of tobacco smokers when compared, in comparison to a healthy set of lungs. Thats to say nothing of the health of Liver's here, with all the expected drinking and second hand tobacco exposure in all the drinking and relationship dinners et al. that take place here in the business culture. Then add to that poor eating/diet, exercise and some demonstrated poor choices by some expats I have seen here. There's a cost to one's quality of living that has an affect on mortality and morbidity that doesn't seem to get enough consideration. Hard to put a financial amount on something you cannot see clearly.

There are so many factors to be considered that this is not an easy decision or one to be taken tightly. Me thinks also your company is either in a tight spot financially or in regards to personnel on the ground here, but why should you be the sacrificial (financial) lamb?

It might seem like a enchanting transition to one outside, but the reality will hit you smack-in-the face sooner or later. It's not really echanting at all. For one thing is certain about China, everything is just for looking (and I mean evrything), for nothing is as it seems - beAware the smoke and mirrors! And this has the potential to lead to a certain amount of frustration about PRC and having to deal with it's citizens, and your workers/suppliers here.

standardissues wrote:I have been offered a job in Shanghai earning ~43,800 RMB per month plus some kind of allowance for housing and transportation. This is about half my current US salary

Dude, that's not worth the hassles. Stay in USA,there(Florida), for $12.8k/m you may buy a home or car every month. And in Shanghai you will need work 3-4 years for that. Don't hurt yourself.

Odd post from Mazeny. I suppose each person sees things "realistically" from their own perspective. It does sound to me like Mazeny's perspective is from the inside of a rather peculiar expat bubble.

"Rent is expensive" - I live comfortably alone in a spacious 3 bedroom apartment with heating/aircon, two bathrooms, quiet and well-located neighbourhood, secure compound, all for RMB 8500 per month. I could move somewhere a little smaller and cheaper, but I couldn't be bothered. The foyer of my building is somewhat unglamorous - so what, I'm not out to impress anyone with it, least of all myself.

"Food is ridiculous" - I agree. Ridiculously cheap. I can eat a passable meal at a local restaurant for 20 to 30 RMB, or an absolute feast for 60 to 80. I can choose from Shanghai, Hunan, Guangdong, Japanese, Ningbo and half a dozen other cuisines, all within a five minute walk from my home. My morning muffin costs RMB 2.50, or for the same money I can get a delicious jianbing from a local street hawker. My local wet market sells all sorts of fresh produce at prices which are significantly cheaper than "back home", so if I cooked for myself every day, I would save even more money. But it's oh so easy just to go down the road and eat some delicious and healthy Chinese food instead.

Clothes shopping: you can get reasonable-quality tailor-made clothes at the famous Fabric Market. Gotta be careful of the quality. I had three suits made for rmb 500 each. One was shite, the other two are excellent. Cotton shirts were about rmb 180 each, again, tailored - and they fit well. OK, if I want Zegna, I pay more here. Medium quality off-the-rack casual clothes are roughly the same ball park as the West.

Now Mazeny's pricing starts to go seriously pear-shaped. RMB 140 for a haircut? Where are you going, man? I just walk into the closest place to my home - 3 minutes away - and get a wash and haircut and a forty-five minute massage for rmb 25. The haircut is excellent.

No experience with prostitutes here but I've heard they are generally a few hundred kuai, maybe more for a decent one. Mazeny got one thing right: Chinese girls are indeed phenomenal. (Well, some of them... enough of them... anyway.)

I won't go too far into comparisons between Jakarta and Shanghai except to say that the weather, the girls, the traffic, the public transport, the food, the beer, the nightlife, the amount of deafening "call to prayer" coming through public loudspeakers on every street corner, the attitude of the people, the degree of palpable hostility to Caucasians - are all better in Shanghai.

There you have it (mark II) - my equally realistic assessment, viewed from within a subtly different universe to Mazeny's.

I think we all agree that this is relative to one's own personal tastes and requirements. I'm on a similar amount to Mazeny, but my expenses are 4000 RMB for rent, 15 RMB for a hair cut, about 500 RMB a week on food, use buses and Metro, do clothes shopping about twice a year, dont really lead an extravagant lifestyle and see no need for one. Similary, I am early thirties, single, no financial or personal commitments of any sort, so happy as Larry. But I can see it would be very different if you came over here with a spouse and kids. It's all relative.

Everything is relative, but don't listen to the local average salary approach, you are not local, you do not want to live like them.

Now onto your question, you actually have 2 concerns:
1) What is the standard of life style in Shanghai for 43800 rmb per month.
2) How is 43800 per month in Shanghai, compared to twice of that amount in USA.

The 1st concern, In my personal opinion, 43800 rmb a month in Shanghai, is good, but not a lot.

You said yourself, you do not want to live in a 2 bedroom flat. If you want a stand alone villa, or a larger 3000 sq-ft flat, you are looking at 25-30k rmb monthly rent, your employer might cover portion of that as you stated, you need to make up whatever the difference.

Now daily expense, I just spent 6 weeks in Shanghai, as a trial of what it's like living in Shanghai long-term, so I used an expense tracker app on my i-Phone to track all my expense. I only recorded the necessarily daily expense, 3 main categories:
Food/drink: all meals, snacks, dessert shops, coffee shops, bars, KTV's, clubs, etc.
Transportation: 99.9% taxi and car service cost. I took subway once just to try.
Personal care: hair-cut, massage, facial, spa treatment etc.

My daily average over the 6 weeks period, is over 1200 RMB a day. That is for two people, me and gf. If you are single, you can cut a third to 40% of that.
Now that was just comfortable living, not luxurious. We love food, and eat at decent restaurants. We like to go out, so 5+ days a week, we go out for drinks and clubbing etc. That's about it, nothing extravagant, because it was a trial living and we wanted to experience live like non-tourist.
Thus, In conclusion, 43800 rmb a month in Shanghai, gives a single person a comfortable life. You can eat well, go out often, always take taxi, and go for luxury personal treatment.

Now your 2nd concern, how is 43800 in Shanghai compared to 2x of that in USA?
Simple, not good. Per my observation, overall, pound for pound, dollar for dollar, Shanghai is about 20% cheaper than Manhattan.
So if you earn 1/2 of what you earn in USA, I would say you are taking a substantial pay-cut.
Yes it's enough money to live on, but you are getting less money.

In the end, the way I see it, if you want to experience Shanghai, if you are young without much obligation, I will do it, I will try to get the housing expense covered by employer as much as I can, and pack my bags and enjoy life in Shanghai.
If you don't really care to live in China, if you are doing it because you think money stretches longer in Shanghai, don't, unless you are getting paid close to what you get in USA, stay in USA.

Hope that helps, good luck on either way you decide.

standardissues - I think you have got really the best advice from all quarters. The expat population has really changed dramatically over the years and there are now so many more expats on zero packages, halfpats and of course those still on full packages so what you get is such a varied group of people living such different lifestyles.

Everyone has their own individual standards and I don't feel it is anyone's place to preach what they should and should not be. I have paid from 20rmb for a haircut to 300rmb (800 for tips) and I fully know and am aware of the reason for the price differences and accept it whole heartedly. When I walk inot a salon it is not like I am blind and there is no price list and I am being "ripped off" or I am a total niave idiot. Sometimes I want a cheap simple cut and sometimes a better more expensive one. I think this applies to everything else in Shanghai. Once can live locally or fully expat or a mix of both. If one were to live a full expat life then the quoted salary wouldn't get you that far, if you mixed it then you would be in a better position and if you lived a pretty local life you would indeed have bucket loads to save. BUT, not everyone wants to live locally for many, many reasons and it is their choice. It is THEIR LIFE and THEIR MONEY after all.

Anyway, I think the OP should take sinned69's advice and push for more without a doubt. I do wonder why one's worth/value is halved doing the same job and added to this the stresses etc of living and working in China. Totally beats me why a company would expect someone to go to a country that has a hardship category for half the salary.

^ i think it could be about leverage. if he requested to be reassigned to shanghai, the company has the upper hand to dictate the terms. if the company requested him to move there, he'd be in a better position to ask for more.

Mazeny is correct.

Trying to duplicate your life style at home can cost more in Shanghai.

Imported foods such as cereal and wine cost more in Shanghai.
A coffee or milk-tea is $3 in the States and $4 in Shanghai.
A hair cut can get as cheap as $12 in the States but $18 in Shanghai. Yes I understand there are shacks where they cut you hair for 15 RMB but you don't want to go there believe me.
Personal care items such as sun block costs 3x in Shanghai.
Imported brand name clothing costs more in Shanghai too.
The list goes on ...

Getting a 50% paycout definitely do not maintain the same lifestyle in Shanghai.

Oh yeah btw Mazeny where do you get whores for $80 in the States? I thought usual going rate is at least $120

^coffee/milk tea only costs $4usd in shanghai if you order it in a local "western" cafe or restaurant. it's about 10-15rmb at coffee shops (chains like 85 deg C) and drink stands (chains like happy lemon), and other small bakery/coffee places.

and unless you are a chick, getting a 12usd haircut in the states is the same as a 15rmb haircut in china/shanghai.

15rmb haircut places for guys are hardly shacks - that is what most barbers/salons charge for a regular man's haircut, even places that charge 100s of rmb for women's. i wouldn't even know where to look for a place in shanghai that charges 18usd for a man's haircut.

but, agree with the rest.

and fwerrf, don't be cheap with the whores...

Adrienne wrote: I do wonder why one's worth/value is halved doing the same job and added to this the stresses etc of living and working in China. Totally beats me why a company would expect someone to go to a country that has a hardship category for half the salary.

Perhaps he is not sent by his current USA company to work in China.
In that case, a company in China will just pay him the going rate for his line of work and experience, regardless how much he is currently making in USA.

bleepingbleeper wrote:^coffee/milk tea only costs $4usd in shanghai if you order it in a local "western" cafe or restaurant. it's about 10-15rmb at coffee shops (chains like 85 deg C) and drink stands (chains like happy lemon), and other small bakery/coffee places.

and unless you are a chick, getting a 12usd haircut in the states is the same as a 15rmb haircut in china/shanghai.

15rmb haircut places for guys are hardly shacks - that is what most barbers/salons charge for a regular man's haircut, even places that charge 100s of rmb for women's. i wouldn't even know where to look for a place in shanghai that charges 18usd for a man's haircut.

but, agree with the rest.

and fwerrf, don't be cheap with the whores...

You have to compare the equivalent places.
A 10 RMB coffee place in China is equivalent to Dunkin Donuts coffee for $1 in USA.
A $3 coffee place in USA will be the same type as a $4 coffee place in Shanghai.
Or the easy way to look at it, same exact coffee at Starbucks costs less in USA than Shanghai.

As for haircut, a $12 place in USA, and a 15 rmb place in China, are both barbershop. Although the thing is, when I just want a quick trim, I am comfortable at a $12 barbershop in USA, but look at the 15 rmb barbershop in China, it looks pretty scary, at least to me.
Btw, I have never even seen a 15 rmb hair salon in Shanghai, I have only seen that price in smaller cities, are you talking about way outside of city? Most of salons I see the cheapest type of cut is 35-40 rmb. I usually get my cut at this place called Wang Lei Image in the mall where the USA consulate is, it is just a regular, not fancy place, and it's 130rmb.

Bottom line is, yes you can live in China for cheaper, but if you are looking for the same quality of life style , then it might not be.

mazeny wrote:And many guys are like me... so aren't GF's sort of whores too?

So, logically, that would make your mother a whore... I can't believe you are really as stupid and neanderthal as that post makes you appear.

fWerrF wrote:you are a hater.

Hahahaha, as classic a reply as Sindbads "if you don't like it, **** off!"

Hahaha...

fWerrF wrote:unlike some pretentious fake people, I ...