I'm moving to Shanghai in the summer. My chinese is below beginner level. I have a handful of expat friends living there, all of whom have warned me about the inflated renatl prices that real estate agents charge western expats. Is there any good way of getting around this. Anyone recommend some good sites/agents that won't be ripping me off?

Thanks!

1) get a friend who does speak to help you.
2) find a neighbourhood where you want to live and check out the listings posted at neighbourhood real estate offices.
3) Remember that most prices are negotiable
Keep in mind that Shanghai is experiencing high vacancy along with high property prices. That means a lot of empty apartments being kept at the landlords expense every month. At the end of the day its better for them to be occupied at a lower price than risk them being empty. Renters market.

conversely,

1) Go to a site that is in Chinese (i.e. http://www.loushi.cn, btw don't use the English version of this site. Listings are limited)
2) Run some of the stuff through Google translate so you know what the ads are saying.
3) Get familiar of what to expect for what price on a local site

Although there are many reasonable listings that can be found on English sites, like this one, or on Craigslist, http://www.cityweekend.com.cn, etc...

Although expat places tend to be pricier, they also tend to be nicer. A lot of the cheaper places may be well below your minimum standard of living. Its not always a case of 'overchage the foreigner'

There are a lot of people on this site with a lot more experience than I, whom I am sure can help too.

How much are you looking to spend?

Hey, thanks alot for that reply. My friend said I should get a pretty high end 2 bed for under 10000RMB a month, so max spend I would want to pay is 10k per month. Ideally it would be modern decor with all mod cons and reasonably spacious as well as being in a decent area with good infrastructure/close to amenities etc.

Even though there are a ton of apartments well above that price point, you should, without too much trouble, be able to get what you want within that price range.

To put in in perspective, I am looking for a 1bd for under 3500/mo. Pretty frugal by expat standards I'd think. Last time I was in Shanghai (2007) I was spending 2300/mo.

I would not agree with the "Renters market" comment. Good units at fair price is never empty, at least so according to my experience as a pro-landlord. To avoid The WHITE TAX, like Chinese from other cities avoiding paying extra, I would suggest you:

1. pick your favorate apartment first. Lock your target.
2. call at least 3 different agents, 2 calls by your Shanghai dialect speaking friends if you have.
3. NEVER be hasty.

If a local Shanghai voice ask me price for a certain apartment, I won't even think of imposing "White Tax". You need to cover your white color with local color, then no White Tax:)

Definitions:

"White Tax"
The practice of charging more for apartments if the renter is white (laowai)

"SPAMMING"
Pulling up old Relo posts to add inane comments or idiotic questions with the goal of getting your URL in your sig out there

EDIT: "SPAMMING" remark was directed to an idiot's post that the Mods have deleted.
Not to anyone currently on this topic

A rental market with clearly marked prices don't exist in Shanghai.

Some agents and landlords for "expat level" figure the renters don't know the going rate, or are renting with their company paid housing allowance.
"whites", Japanase, Hkers, Taiwanese all get the same treatment. These guys don't practice racially discrimination, just figure expats are "s--kers".

Park77 wrote:1) get a friend who does speak to help you.
2) find a neighbourhood where you want to live and check out the listings posted at neighbourhood real estate offices.
3) Remember that most prices are negotiable
Keep in mind that Shanghai is experiencing high vacancy along with high property prices. That means a lot of empty apartments being kept at the landlords expense every month. At the end of the day its better for them to be occupied at a lower price than risk them being empty. Renters market.

conversely,

1) Go to a site that is in Chinese (i.e. http://www.loushi.cn, btw don't use the English version of this site. Listings are limited)
2) Run some of the stuff through Google translate so you know what the ads are saying.
3) Get familiar of what to expect for what price on a local site

Although there are many reasonable listings that can be found on English sites, like this one, or on Craigslist, http://www.cityweekend.com.cn, etc...

Although expat places tend to be pricier, they also tend to be nicer. A lot of the cheaper places may be well below your minimum standard of living. Its not always a case of 'overchage the foreigner'

There are a lot of people on this site with a lot more experience than I, whom I am sure can help too.

How much are you looking to spend?

Laowai prices everywhere, heard the realtors get 100% rental as commission from landlords though don't charge from expats. FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFCCCC

I would suppose the only way you can have fair assurity that you are looking at the fair asking price is to hit the pavement, and window-shop realty offices.

I think that if you are in the 15000+RMB/mo bracket for rentals, its more of a "luxury premium" than a "white person tax" (or as PWNer more accurately put it, a laowai tax) from many realtors point of view. Its the premium to get exactly what you want, or in some cases, more than you expected.

I am going to go out on a limb and say that at a certain price level it is no longer discriminatory. At a certain level the bulk of the market becomes expats, having priced out most of the local renters. A lot of foreigners wouldn't bat an eyelash at dropping 40,000 for a renovated lane house, but there are a lot of locals who seriously think you could live anywhere in Shanghai for 4,000.

Now, if you are talking about a laowai tax on lower cost housing, then it is more discriminatory. But then, there is room for negotiation, and in the end any negotiated price between two parties is a fair price. Whether someone else paid more or less is not relevant.

There is work involved if you don't want to pay over the odds.

Use a few agents (preferably from friends' personal references).
We had 2 agents who showed us the same apt and quote monthly rental prices that were 5000 rmb apart.

hey guys, just wanted to say thanks for all the feedback here. i guess i'm just gonna shack up in a hostel for a week or two when i arrive and go meet some agents.