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Can a foreign child attend a local school?

A forum for people who want to discuss family topics and children.

Can a foreign child attend a local school?

Postby Jolynne » Tue Apr 08, 2008 8:22 am

Hi there!!!
I was wondering if anyone knows if a foreign child in Shanghai is allowed to attend a local school. My husband and I were told that because our child is a foreigner that she/he must attend an International school. We have researched the International schools in the city and they are very very expensive (some are charging upwards of 24 000 US dollars a year)!!

Before we decide on having a child in Shanghai this is obviously one of many of our biggest concerns. If anyone could help us out on this one it would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers!!
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Postby hautumncloud » Tue Apr 08, 2008 9:02 am

The answer is yes, a foreign child CAN attend local school but not every local school can take foreign students. There have been discussions about this in the "Family" section. You may want to do a search for it there.
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Postby Jolynne » Tue Apr 08, 2008 9:15 am

Thank you very much!!
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Postby freedelia » Tue Apr 08, 2008 9:44 am

Also, I am pretty sure that if your child is not even on the way yet, by the time he/she will have to go to school, most international schools will have affordable options for people who are not on an expat package.
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Postby hautumncloud » Tue Apr 08, 2008 5:32 pm

^^ freedelia, can you elaborate on the "affordable options" from most international schools? Are the international schools working towards this collaboratively or is this a government ruling and which schools are involve?
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Postby yyfamily » Tue Apr 08, 2008 6:12 pm

freedelia wrote:... most international schools will have affordable options for people who are not on an expat package.


Where did you get this information from? Plesae explain. Thanks. :)
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Postby underh20 » Tue Apr 08, 2008 6:30 pm

If you pay, you can attend. Without paying, I seriously doubt the government will offer free education for expat children.
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Postby freedelia » Tue Apr 08, 2008 7:17 pm

No, not the government. But there already are some international schools (I think Concordia is one of them, but might be wrong) who have special rates for parents paying out of pocket. You can call the schools and ask them, or check their website. A friend who is in this situation told me she knows one more school who will have this program this Sept. Didn't pay attention to the details but can ask and come back with details. But the schools are probably the best source to find out all the details.
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Postby CIA » Tue Apr 08, 2008 7:39 pm

I'm sure you can, but the real question you should be asking yourself is, 'why would you'? I think the 'cost' associated with "un-programming" them once you decided to leave here eclipses any up-front costs associated with a truly international education experience. Especially in the formidable / developmental years. I'd seriously think through what you're considering and take into consideration your long term aspirations for his future / higher education / etc.
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Postby hautumncloud » Tue Apr 08, 2008 7:45 pm

freedelia wrote:No, not the government. But there already are some international schools (I think Concordia is one of them, but might be wrong) who have special rates for parents paying out of pocket. You can call the schools and ask them, or check their website. A friend who is in this situation told me she knows one more school who will have this program this Sept. Didn't pay attention to the details but can ask and come back with details. But the schools are probably the best source to find out all the details.


Oh, I see. I know about the discount given by international schools but not much. Even after discount, the tutition can hover around USD15 - 20k depending on what grades. At least compared to local schooling, the cost would still be high. Thought it was some new initiative you are talking about.
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Re: Can a foreign child attend a local school?

Postby maneo » Tue Apr 08, 2008 8:34 pm

Jolynne wrote:Hi there!!!
I was wondering if anyone knows if a foreign child in Shanghai is allowed to attend a local school. My husband and I were told that because our child is a foreigner that she/he must attend an International school. We have researched the International schools in the city and they are very very expensive (some are charging upwards of 24 000 US dollars a year)!!

Before we decide on having a child in Shanghai this is obviously one of many of our biggest concerns. If anyone could help us out on this one it would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers!!

It's a long way off before you need to put your child in a school.
Much can happen between now and then.
If you had a child already of school age, there is a lower cost alternative to the international schools out in Zhangjiang (SMIC Private School).

I would hope that there are other more important considerations for your decision to have a child.
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Re: Can a foreign child attend a local school?

Postby Jolynne » Wed Apr 09, 2008 8:21 am

I would hope that there are other more important considerations for your decision to have a child.[/quote]

Maneo,
As we mentioned earlier in our post that is ONLY ONE of our many concerns. Please don't think we are going to just go out and have a baby for the sake of having one. Having been over here for the last 11 years I am quite aware of how some of the local schools operate. There is always the option as well as returning to the UK or Canada after so our child can further their education. We were only inquiring if for the early years (Grades 1-5) if it is mandatory that he or she attend an International school.
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Postby WileyK » Wed Apr 09, 2008 11:43 am

hautumncloud wrote:The answer is yes, a foreign child CAN attend local school but not every local school can take foreign students.


This is correct. I have two kids in different local schools - kindergarten and 2nd grade. Mom is a Chinese citizen. Our school of first choice for the 2nd grader used to take foreign children but changed its policy last year and no longer does. They referred us to another local school.

UnderH2O is also correct. We have to pay. For the kindergarten RMB1,600/month and the 2nd grade RMB3,000/semester.
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Re: Can a foreign child attend a local school?

Postby maneo » Thu Apr 10, 2008 7:30 am

Jolynne wrote:Maneo,
As we mentioned earlier in our post that is ONLY ONE of our many concerns. Please don't think we are going to just go out and have a baby for the sake of having one. Having been over here for the last 11 years I am quite aware of how some of the local schools operate. There is always the option as well as returning to the UK or Canada after so our child can further their education. We were only inquiring if for the early years (Grades 1-5) if it is mandatory that he or she attend an International school.

Don't think this should even factor in, especially since you have "the option as well as returning to the UK or Canada."
You could even consider Singapore if you want to stay in Asia.

As you can see from the answers, there are some alternatives for now.
However, you've also seen how fast Shanghai and China in general have changed.
What the situation is today is not a reliable predictor of 5 years from now.
Best wishes on your decision.
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Postby happyhere » Thu Apr 10, 2008 9:22 am

We have raised four foreign children whose mother tongue is English in China (most of them in Shanghai) . One went to kindergarten and primary at local schools, the others just primary. We decided to select that route so they sould gain a deep understanding of Chinese culture, develop native-standard Chinese skills, and make Chinese friends. When they started at kindergarten/primary, their only language was English. They went in ony knowing how to say "ni hao." We were very lucky to be able to get them into local schools that had excellent academic reputations. The youngest had the easiest time adjusting, but all eventually (within two years) were able to be fully engaged in school life and work. They left primary school knowing how to read write and speak Chinese well enough to often be at the top of their classes. They also were able toleave with great study skills, a good attitude toward studying, and a deep interest in learning new things. They feel connected to the local culture and have a lot of friends from their time at local schools.

We decided that once they were in middle school and with one in high school to move them into international schools becase we didn't want them to face the constant test pressure they had in local schools. Also we felt that the benefits they gained from local school were enough and now they needed something different. They have thrived in international schools. Some are using the British system others the American system. They had no problem adjusting to school life and work in international schools.

Using both systems at different times in their lives has worked out really well. They are bilingual as well as being bicultural. To the OP, you can do it. My recommendation is get your child into a good kindergarden and during that 3 year period, see how it goes. Then start looking for a primary school that you like. We visited many and by the second and third could see big differences among them. Select one that feels right for you and your child. You may need to eventually get extra help for your child if you are not native speakers of Chinese. And if you don't speak Chinese now, start learning because it will only help you later communicate with teachers and understand things your child brings home. I am a foreigner whose first lnguage is Englsh but I speak, read and write Chinese and my husband is Chinese, so we were able to communicate with the school and teachers. But if you haven't had your baby yet, you hve time to learn enough to be able to have basic communication with your child's teacher. Good luck.
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Postby Jolynne » Thu Apr 10, 2008 10:53 am

Hi Happyhere,
Thank you for your letter. It is good to know that you had a good experience with the local schools for your children. Having been a teacher for the last 8 years in Shanghai and around China I do know that there are some good local schools out there. Thank you again for sharing your experience and knowledge with regards to this topic.
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Postby Portsmouth » Thu Apr 10, 2008 11:30 am

Hi Happyhere,

Good to hear local primary school worked out well for your kids! Mind if I asked which primary school your children went to in Shanghai? Also, how did you manage the *crazy* work load local schools put on kids, i.e. how did you mange play and study balance in their life? Local friends told me to be successful in a local school, it is a competition not just among kids but a competition among parents – to see how much time parents can devote to their children’s study? Also, how did you keep up the kids English level? How did you keep your kids’ creativity up and encourage them as independent thinkers?

Sorry for the many questions – we have two kids and they are still young. One is in local bilingual kindergarten right now. We think we will send them to international primary school but then hearing success stories like yours, I’m wondering what it takes to have a good experience with local primary schools.

Thanks!
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Postby JD » Thu Apr 10, 2008 11:38 am

Tuition fee for example in Jing An International Primary School (this is a "local" international school ) was somewhere around 2000 USD / year a few years ago.
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Postby motherintown » Tue Apr 15, 2008 5:20 pm

happywhere, can you tell which local school acept your child?
portmounts can you tell me which local bilingual kindergarten are you talking about?
Thanks,
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Postby StMichael » Tue Apr 15, 2008 9:05 pm

I know that the Shanghai Educational Bureau has announced that all local schools can now accept foreigners. I suspect schools still have the prerogative whether to actually do so. Some may be more willing, some may not. Those that operates international divisions will definitely accept your child.
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Postby Portsmouth » Tue Apr 15, 2008 10:52 pm

motherintown,

My older one goes to Kid Castle in Luwan. It is a local bilingual - it really is a Chinese kindergarten with an emphasis on English learning. There is only one non-Chinese teacher in the school and most of my daughter's Chinese teachers could communicate in English. My daughter speaks primarily Chinese with teachers and friends in school. We, at home, do our share to make sure she speaks more English.

Kid Castle's phone number is 021-63027819/63027812 and address is
No. 4, Lane 28 Mengzi Road West, Luwan
卢湾区蒙自西路28弄4号
Contact person: Ms Luo

Let me know if you have any questions. :)
Last edited by Portsmouth on Wed Apr 16, 2008 10:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby happyhere » Wed Apr 16, 2008 12:25 am

For primary school in Shanghai our children went to Fushan Lu Primary in Pudong. It now has several branches in Pudong and has fiddled with its name a bit. But our children went to the original one on Fushan Lu.

The work load was manageable. We sometimes let them stay for the after school homework session so they could get their work done before coming home, but other times we would have them come home and do it at home. They were limited to how much homework they could do each evening based on their year in school. I think we may have been one of the few families that really keep to the guidelines. We didn’t think it was excessive. There were no late nights and weekends were not jam packed with home work. Our children had a great school-life balance. They did martial arts, played soccer, learned guitar, biked, and swam a lot – all outside of school.

I think we didn’t feel the stress that many Chinese families feel because we knew that our children would eventually leave that system and go into international schools. So we didn’t see our children’s success or failure riding on each test. We could look beyond teh moment. That said they did well and our youngest one who had started off at a local kindergarten for three years before starting at Fushan Lu was able to consistently be at the top of her class. And it is important to note with the exception of one of our children, we didn’t even consider having them go beyond primary in the local system. We definitely saw the switch from primary to secondary as a stressful and unpleasant experience. We saw value in the local system for kindergarten and primary, but didn’t see much value FOR US beyond that.

I also think that it’s the parents’ attitude and expectations that put stress on children. Of course schools and teachers can cause stress as well. But I know there are a lot of children at international schools who are also very stressed out about how well they do not because of the school or teachers they have but because of pressure their parents put on them to do better than their classmates, to be at the top of their class, etc.

In the last ten years there have been so many educational reforms introduced nation-wide and even more so in Shanghai – from encouraging English to be taught in more enlightened ways, decreasing the number of children in each class, and mandating physical education and art classes to cutting down on the amount of homework that can be assigned. And I can tell you, a lot of educators find the greatest obstacles to those reforms are parents who are suspicious of those changes and somehow think their children’s future will be negatively affected by them.

You asked about keeping up our children’s English, well it wasn’t difficult because at home we speak English ( I am a native speaker of English so our children’s mother tongue is English), watch English TV, view English films; and our home is filled with English (and Chinese) books which our children spent a lot of time reading. So by the time they went into international schools their reading levels were in fact well above their grade level. The one area where they were academically weaker was their ability to produce extended pieces of academic writing in English – essays, reports, etc. I did not keep up their academic writing ability in English as I found it unnatural to ‘assign’ them that kind of writing task at home. Although they did a lot of letter writing in English to family and friends back home and that was one way for me to help them with their writing. All of them were able to make up this deficit really quickly once they were in international schools.

I know our experience may not be someone else’s, so I don’t want to suggest that the local system is best for everyone. But I think that for some foreign families especially ones that plan on being in China for the long haul and who really want the language, cultural and academic environment that the local system offers, it is well worth looking into.
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Postby Portsmouth » Wed Apr 16, 2008 6:40 am

happyhere,

Thank you very much for sharing your experience! Really appreciate it! :-) A lot for us to think through.
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Postby iceblast47 » Sat Apr 19, 2008 11:03 am

you may try private schools like SMICS School or YK Pao Private school. they also admit foreigners but is less than RMB 10,000 / month, much cheaper compared to international schools.
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Postby amig » Sat Apr 19, 2008 11:45 pm

Shanghai United Int Sch fee for Grade 1 to 5 is RMB 80,000 per year or less than 7k per mth. It is a bilingual sch with a native Eng and a local Chs teachers in a single class.
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Postby StMichael » Sat Apr 19, 2008 11:49 pm

Bilingual in what sense? What is the percentage of English being used in the school? I am very curious to find out how schools like Xiehe works, especially since they admit local pupils as well. Or is SUIS/Xiehe also split into a local and an international division, like Shanghai High?
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Postby amig » Sun Apr 20, 2008 9:15 pm

Yes SUIS is spilt into local and international division. A student can choose to take Maths in Chs or Eng, based on the same syllabus. And like SSIS, SUIS offers Mandarin with local or bilingual syllabus.
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Postby StMichael » Sun Apr 20, 2008 9:20 pm

Taking Math in Chinese or English is an option for the international division as well? Or does the international division take Math only in English? Do I take it, too, that the international division teaches English at native standards? And that English is taught in English (unlike the local schools)?
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Postby amig » Mon Apr 21, 2008 9:58 am

In the international division, English is taught in English. Maths and Eng subjects follow the Hong Kong Longman syllabus, a syllabus mainly use by the English School Foundation schools in Hong Kong. In the local division, Eng is taught as a bilingual subject. There is an obvious separation between the international and local division. Firstly, the divisions use different buildings.
I forgot to mention that subjects like Art and Music, students can choose to be in Mandarin or Eng, similarly to Maths. Since SUIS international division follows the IB PYP program closely, it has the Units of Inquiry (UI) subject, which covers the general science and social subjects like history and literature.
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Postby amig » Mon Apr 21, 2008 10:25 am

Just pm-ed you, Michael.
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