can you be detained at the embassy on a bench warrant

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can you be detained at the embassy on a bench warrant

Postby NoChinaForOldChang » Tue Aug 03, 2010 10:34 am

just like the title asks, can you? a friend of mine has a bench warrant on drug offenses in los angeles county, been out of the country for a year, successfully obtaining chinese visa in korean neumerous times without any legal hassle. but now she might have a reason to step into US embassy in china. will she be detained? professional replies only please- i know that's asking a lot in here...
Last edited by NoChinaForOldChang on Wed Aug 04, 2010 4:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: can you be detained at the embassy on a bench warrant

Postby Mister_happy » Tue Aug 03, 2010 12:50 pm

The answer is YES they can arrest you but unlikely to happen, they don't have a prison cell to hold you and how can they get you back to the USA. Unless you are a Mexican Drug Barron the co$t and hassel of sending you back is to high also.

If they check you ID and find you have a Warrant for your arrest they will not offer you any assistance, except advice on returning to the USA. They will not renew your passport for example and will inform the Chinese authorities who may cancel any Chinese Visa you may have.

So the next time you enter China you could be refussed entry and offered a waiting room with bars on till you decide to get on a flight to the US.
I'm not saying I should kill ALL the stupid people, I'm just removing the warning labels and let the problem sort itself out!
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Re: can you be detained at the embassy on a bench warrant

Postby NoChinaForOldChang » Tue Aug 03, 2010 6:19 pm

ttt. mr. happy's answer seem sound but doesn't calm the worry. any more info?
Last edited by NoChinaForOldChang on Wed Aug 04, 2010 4:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: can you be detained at the embassy on a bench warrant

Postby bigroh74 » Tue Aug 03, 2010 10:09 pm

From an online article about US warrants...

"... a point that has previously been mentioned on this blog. Namely: the confiscation of one’s US passport by the American government if one has a pending arrest warrant in the USA. As has been previously noted on this blog, this can be an occasional occurrence outside of the United States when an American travels to a US Embassy or US Consulate to renew their passport or add visa pages at an American Citizen Services Section. In a large number of cases, if a pending arrest warrant is discovered, even if unknown to the subject, the passport will likely be seized, but the American Citizen may be given the option of being issued a travel document to travel back to the USA to deal with the pending matter."
(A bench warrant is a variant of an arrest warrant that authorizes the immediate on-sight arrest of the individual subject to the bench warrant.)

http://integrity-legal.com/legal-blog/u ... -overview/
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Re: can you be detained at the embassy on a bench warrant

Postby chingiskhan » Tue Aug 03, 2010 10:56 pm

Looks like the OP is screwed unless he changes nationality.
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Re: can you be detained at the embassy on a bench warrant

Postby daodejing » Wed Aug 04, 2010 12:10 am

I seriously doubt they will check. Anyway, let us know what happens. Don't you eventually have to go back to the US?
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Re: can you be detained at the embassy on a bench warrant

Postby bigroh74 » Wed Aug 04, 2010 1:14 am

daodejing wrote:I seriously doubt they will check. Anyway, let us know what happens. Don't you eventually have to go back to the US?

They don't have to check, that's the problem. The warrant should show up automatically.
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Re: can you be detained at the embassy on a bench warrant

Postby Renovator » Wed Aug 04, 2010 3:12 am

The US Embassy is legally considered American soil in any country so the US government can pretty much do whatever they want to help enforce US law on US citizens within the confines of their compound.
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Re: can you be detained at the embassy on a bench warrant

Postby TheBeaver » Wed Aug 04, 2010 3:39 am

And the FBI has offices both here and in Beijing with real agents and one of the reasons they are here is to deal apprehend people like you. While they cannot go out onto Chinese soil and make arrests, they do routinely monitor people here. They also do actively cooperate with the local Chinese law enforcement with the hopes of disrupting the lives of people who are on the lam like yourself in the hopes of getting your back on U.S. soil so to speak and that includes as Renovator above me correctly posted U.S. embassies and consulates.

I am not sure that the FBI agents here or anywhere else for that matter make personal judgment calls in the field as to whether one crime is more worthy over another crime to apprehend someone when the opportunity arises based on the costs of getting them back to the USA.
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Re: can you be detained at the embassy on a bench warrant

Postby Mister_happy » Wed Aug 04, 2010 10:37 am

Renovator wrote:The US Embassy is legally considered American soil in any country so the US government can pretty much do whatever they want to help enforce US law on US citizens within the confines of their compound.


Most of what you think is an Embassy that the puplic has access to is just rented office space. This is done incase a bunch of people want to sit in and demand to be taken to which ever country!!! The office staff just phone the local police to drag them out of the office. Most of the staff working behind the glass screens can be third party nationals. Thats why the EMBASSY is surrounded by razzor wire and electric fence to stop people getting in.

The way that we Brits get their criminals back is just not to renew passports, with no valid passport you have no visa or any means of ID. So if the local police pick you up they have the perfect excuse to put you on a plane home to the UK or USA. You don't have a passport or visa and the Embassy is not going to give you a new one, what country is going to allow you in without a passport.

In other countries I have lived in, if the police found you had a crimal record they would just raid your house and take you to the station. Then they would just flush your passport down the toilet and say to the Embassy they had lost it. When the Embassy refuses to reissue a passport the police has every right to deport you out of the country and you don't have a great say where you are going as you don't have a passport.

The poor OP may find to his cost that he will be prevented from gaining a works visa in CHina and several other countries with a drugs conviction to his name.

The legal means is that only a court can demand your passport, the Embassy needs no legal power not to renew/reissue your passport.
I'm not saying I should kill ALL the stupid people, I'm just removing the warning labels and let the problem sort itself out!
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Re: can you be detained at the embassy on a bench warrant

Postby chingiskhan » Wed Aug 04, 2010 11:10 am

Renovator wrote:The US Embassy is legally considered American soil in any country so the US government can pretty much do whatever they want to help enforce US law on US citizens within the confines of their compound.


That might be true but I don't think it has any relevance here. All that means is that they could hold you in the embassy for the rest of your life. Hardly practical as they'd have to feed you and find a way to confine you. And being American soil, you would also have the rights that any American would have.
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Re: can you be detained at the embassy on a bench warrant

Postby emerson » Wed Aug 04, 2010 12:24 pm

I have no experience in this type of matter, but a quick search of the Internet appears to confirm that the US government can refuse to renew your passport for an outstanding US warrant and compel your return to the US (See below). Of course, California would have to have entered the warrant into the relevant databases for it to come to the attention of federal authorities.

The embassy could also probably detain you—US embassy is US soil and home rules apply—including arrest by a citizen and/or FBI. But why bother (unless your Ted Bundy or Whitey Bulger) when they can simply compel your return to the US by denying the renewal and notifying the local police of your status and pending warrant. The Chinese have little regard for due process and will likely arrest you, put you on the first plane back to the US and notify the authorities that you are coming.

http://articlestorehouse.com/Art/68626/ ... newal.html

http://romania.usembassy.gov/acs/freque ... tions.html
Q. WHAT INFORMATION WILL I NEED TO PROVIDE THE CONSULAR OFFICER?
• your name
• date of birth
• place of birth
• passport number (if available)
• date and place where your passport was issued

When you report the loss, theft, or misplacement of your passport you must execute an affidavit fully describing the circumstances under which it was lost, stolen. U.S. Department of State form DS-64 may be used for this purpose, or you may simply execute a sworn statement before the consular officer describing what happened. A police report is not mandatory but may be required when the embassy/consulate believes a problem may exist such as possible fraud. An applicant eligible to receive a passport should not be placed in circumstances to miss a plane or unreasonably delay travel to obtain a police report.

The U.S. embassy/consulate will confirm your previous passport issuance through our Passport Verification System. The consular section will also attempt to clear your name through the U.S. Department of State name check system to ensure there is nothing preventing issuance of a U.S. passport to you (for example: outstanding arrest warrant, court order, etc.) See 22 CFR 51.70.

22 CFR 51.70.
Title 22: Foreign Relations
PART 51—PASSPORTS
Subpart E—Limitations on Issuance or Use of Passports
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§ 51.70 Denial of passports.
(a) A passport, except for direct return to the United States, shall not be issued in any case in which the Secretary of State determines or is informed by competent authority that:
(1) The applicant is the subject of an outstanding Federal warrant of arrest for a felony, including a warrant issued under the Federal Fugitive Felon Act (18 U.S.C. 1073); or
(2) The applicant is subject to a criminal court order, condition of probation, or condition of parole, any of which forbids departure from the United States and the violation of which could result in the issuance of a Federal warrant of arrest, including a warrant issued under the Federal Fugitive Felon Act; or

(3) The applicant is subject to a court order committing him or her to a mental institution; or
(4) The applicant is the subject of a request for extradition or provisional arrest for extradition which has been presented to the government of a foreign country; or
(5) The applicant is the subject of a subpoena issued pursuant to section 1783 of title 28, United States Code, in a matter involving Federal prosecution for, or grand jury investigation of, a felony; or
(6) The applicant has not repaid a loan received from the United States as prescribed under §§71.10 and 71.11 of this chapter; or
(7) The applicant is in default on a loan received from the United States to effectuate his or her return from a foreign country in the course of travel abroad; or
(8) The applicant has been certified by the Secretary of Health and Human Services as notified by a State agency under 42 U.S.C. 652(k) to be in arrears of child support in an amount exceeding $5,000.00.
(b) A passport may be refused in any case in which the Secretary of State determines or is informed by competent authority that:
(1) The applicant has not repaid a loan received from the United States to effectuate his or her return from a foreign country in the course of travel abroad; or
(2) The applicant has been legally declared incompetent unless accompanied on his or her travel abroad by the guardian or other person responsible for the national's custody and well being; or
(3) The applicant is under the age of 18 years, unmarried and not in the military service of the United States unless a person having legal custody of such national authorizes issuance of the passport and agrees to reimburse the United States for any monies advanced by the United States for the minor to return to the United States; or
(4) The Secretary determines that the national's activities abroad are causing or are likely to cause serious damage to the national security or the foreign policy of the United States; or
(5) The applicant has been the subject of a prior adverse action under this section or §51.71 and has not shown that a change in circumstances since the adverse action warrants issuance of a passport; or
(6) The applicant is subject to an order of restraint or apprehension issued by an appropriate officer of the United States Armed Forces pursuant to chapter 47 of title 10 of the United States Code.
(Approved by the Office of Management and Budget under control number 1405–0077)
[54 FR 8531, Mar. 1, 1989, as amended at 62 FR 62695, Nov. 25, 1997]
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Re: can you be detained at the embassy on a bench warrant

Postby TheBeaver » Thu Aug 05, 2010 1:53 am

To the OP: May I please come with you to the consulate when you go?
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Re: can you be detained at the embassy on a bench warrant

Postby eudaimonic » Thu Aug 05, 2010 2:02 am

chingiskhan wrote:
That might be true but I don't think it has any relevance here. All that means is that they could hold you in the embassy for the rest of your life. Hardly practical as they'd have to feed you and find a way to confine you. And being American soil, you would also have the rights that any American would have.


Liaising with the Chinese government at that point would be a mere formaIity.
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Re: can you be detained at the embassy on a bench warrant

Postby bigroh74 » Thu Aug 05, 2010 2:07 am

So is it you who's in trouble, as per your original post, or your friend, as in your edited version?
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Re: can you be detained at the embassy on a bench warrant

Postby TheBeaver » Thu Aug 05, 2010 2:08 am

bigroh74 wrote:So is it you who's in trouble, as per your original post, or your friend, as in your edited version?


Good catch! He's trying to pull a Jan Brady on us.
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Re: can you be detained at the embassy on a bench warrant

Postby eudaimonic » Thu Aug 05, 2010 2:39 am

bigroh74 wrote:So is it you who's in trouble, as per your original post, or your friend, as in your edited version?


Image
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Re: can you be detained at the embassy on a bench warrant

Postby chanland » Thu Aug 05, 2010 9:43 am

The officers at the embassy will just look at your passport but they do not run it through a computer which may show that there is an outstanding warrant. So you can get some services at the embassy - notary, etc. - but if you need to renew your passport, that may be problematic. Obviously, the same if you (or your friend) are going back to the US.
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Re: can you be detained at the embassy on a bench warrant

Postby bigroh74 » Thu Aug 05, 2010 4:00 pm

For a 10 posts a day man, OP is strangely silent. Under arrest already? Deported?
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Re: can you be detained at the embassy on a bench warrant

Postby minyanville » Thu Aug 05, 2010 4:07 pm

The way I see it. Go to the embassy, do your business. If they detain you, its a free ticket back home, since you will have to go back either way.
If they dont, well, lucky you.
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Re: can you be detained at the embassy on a bench warrant

Postby GC » Fri Aug 06, 2010 7:20 am

bigroh74 wrote:For a 10 posts a day man, OP is strangely silent. Under arrest already? Deported?


Probably :D

Around four to five years ago there was a story floating about. American guy went to Embassy to get something sorted and was detained because there was some kind of warrant from the US. He was made to book a flight back to the US and was met outside by the PSB who took him to his apartment to collect his stuff and was then held in a police cell until his flight a few days later.

Illegal extradition! True or not, who cares!
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Re: can you be detained at the embassy on a bench warrant

Postby GC » Fri Aug 06, 2010 7:21 am

eudaimonic wrote:
bigroh74 wrote:So is it you who's in trouble, as per your original post, or your friend, as in your edited version?


Image


:D
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Re: can you be detained at the embassy on a bench warrant

Postby johnny_tropicana » Fri Aug 06, 2010 7:52 am

minyanville wrote:The way I see it. Go to the embassy, do your business. If they detain you, its a free ticket back home, since you will have to go back either way.
If they dont, well, lucky you.

Sorry, Not a free ticket home. They will bill you.
For the two Air Marshals who will escort you home as well.
Drug offense? You should be able to muster the $20-30K they will bill you.
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Re: can you be detained at the embassy on a bench warrant

Postby bigroh74 » Fri Aug 06, 2010 11:02 am

johnny_tropicana wrote:
minyanville wrote:The way I see it. Go to the embassy, do your business. If they detain you, its a free ticket back home, since you will have to go back either way.
If they dont, well, lucky you.

Sorry, Not a free ticket home. They will bill you.
For the two Air Marshals who will escort you home as well.
Drug offense? You should be able to muster the $20-30K they will bill you.

What you need to do OP is get back to the States. Face up to what you've done. Suffer the consequences and then get on with your life. Otherwise this is going to hang over you wherever you go.
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Re: can you be detained at the embassy on a bench warrant

Postby jzzzzzzz » Fri Aug 06, 2010 11:10 am

NoChinaForOldChang wrote:a friend of mine


:lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: can you be detained at the embassy on a bench warrant

Postby Renovator » Fri Aug 06, 2010 9:21 pm

johnny_tropicana wrote:
minyanville wrote:The way I see it. Go to the embassy, do your business. If they detain you, its a free ticket back home, since you will have to go back either way.
If they dont, well, lucky you.

Sorry, Not a free ticket home. They will bill you.
For the two Air Marshals who will escort you home as well.
Drug offense? You should be able to muster the $20-30K they will bill you.


If they want to get you back to the US, they will do it any way they need to. I was on a flight where a passenger that was being deported back to the US said he would not go. He got into the bathroom and slit his 2 wrists while still at the originating airport. The authorities delayed the flight, cleaned up the bathroom, patched the guy up, doped him up and tied him to the airline seat with plastic tie wraps. Not a pleasant sight for the other passengers, but they did get him back to the US.
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Re: can you be detained at the embassy on a bench warrant

Postby Adrienne » Fri Aug 06, 2010 11:59 pm

Here's my two bob's worth.....

Firstly, we have Consulate General's here in this city. Embassies only exist in capital cities of countries.

Secondly, if your friend is a US citizen there is no reason whatsoever to go to the CG to get back to the USA. Don't you guys just buy an airline ticket??

Finally, the warrant was issued by LA county which most likely only gets involved with the Customs and Immigration department when there are serious crimes with mandatory sentences related to them. So, if she say was selling say 5million bucks worth of herion then most likely the LA county would have contacted the Immigration Dept. to search for her whereabouts and start extradition proceedings which are long and lengthy and involved between different countries. But if her crime was minor I can not imagine the government spending much more than a minute or two on each case. According to Wikipedia the U.S. state of California in 1999 had around 2.5 million outstanding warrants, with nearly 1 million of them in the Los Angeles area. So, unless they have done some huge clean up of systems in the past 11 years, I would say she has little chance of her name coming accross the Immigration/Customs Dep't radar.

A warrant has to be signed for when recieved and if she was overseas at the time then she could easily show she knew nothing about it. Given she was able to leave the country as well demonstrates there isn't much of a link with the dept's. A warrant is purely a case to be answered and if it a small issue and she has a good lawyer then often a fine is given rather than jail time. Well, that of course depends what country you are in...................but that's another topic.

Anyway, at some stage she will need to go back home so better sooner than later. She could check with a lawyer back home about the seriousness of the offence and take their advice on board.

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Re: can you be detained at the embassy on a bench warrant

Postby TheBeaver » Sun Aug 08, 2010 11:15 am

^And there you have it, ladies and gentlemen
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Re: can you be detained at the embassy on a bench warrant

Postby ayall » Tue Aug 17, 2010 1:27 pm

so what finally happened on this?

did OP get detailed?

can OP give a follow-up?
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Re: can you be detained at the embassy on a bench warrant

Postby ElGatoNegro » Tue Aug 17, 2010 3:21 pm

Maybe he was executed?
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