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Central Heating Installation

Specific discussions on relocating and moving to Shanghai. Please stay on topic!

Central Heating Installation

Postby CarlosPatatas » Fri Apr 30, 2010 8:37 am

Any of you long timers had proper central heating installed in your house or apartment?

I'm not willing to endure another Shanghai winter barricaded into the smallest bedroom, hunched shivering over an electric radiator with a blanket over my lap whilst my ailing air con ineffectually wheezes out lukewarm air.

I'm looking to get a decent gas central heating system installed, probably 5 radiators. My Mandarin isn't good enough to negotiate prices (although my landlord's probably is). Any suggestions as to where I might start getting reasonable quotations from would be gratefully appreciated.

Failing that, any suggestions as to the going rate for a 2 bedroom apartment with GCH in XuJiaHui or JingAn and recommended estate agents would also be welcome.

Thanks in advance.
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Re: Central Heating Installation

Postby Mister_happy » Fri Apr 30, 2010 8:53 am

WE had gass central heating fitted in our appartment before we moved it. It has wall fixed radiators and not the under floor pipes that most systems seem to have.

The brand is Valiant and it provides the hot wateraswell. It has 7 radiators in a split level appartment and cost around 45,000rmb. Boiler was around 25k and the radiatos and installation made up the rest.

The running costs this winter worked out around 800rmb/month.

Just visit some of the big house building malls and you will find the Valiant showroom.
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Re: Central Heating Installation

Postby CoffeeHawk_0 » Fri Apr 30, 2010 9:50 am

Issue 1 is that we're all from different countries and many here are translating into English from different languages, and then that mess must be translated into Chinese. As an example, the above post is a hot-water system in my country, not 'central gas heating'. So no offense meant regarding language, but you'll need to describe the system you want in actual detail if there's going to be any hope of getting what you want especially after it's re-translated into Chinese.

Issue 2 is that having one large, gas powered, water heater in the apartment in Shanghai is not efficient and many times is not as effective as you might hope (for typical Shanghai system designs). I've lived in three 140~180 sq. meter apartments and the central heating has never managed the task well. It's also 3 times more expensive to run here than in Chicago where it's much colder. You could pay more for a better designed system, but I wonder if you can find a contractor willing to do that much work, such as insulating the water pipes.

Issue 3 is the water itself. Shanghai water storage tanks in apartment complexes are not well insulated, hence most gas powered, hot water heating systems can not over come the 1C water temperatures in the winter to give you both a hot shower and hot air coming out of the vents in the winter, especially if you want decent water pressure in the shower.

Issue 4 is that if the apartment is not originally designed for significant levels of incoming natural gas and exhausting the burnt natural gas, then it is either impossible or ridiculously expensive to create all the plumbing and piping to create such a system in a solid concrete building, especially if yoru apartmetn does not have a lot of exterior walls.

There are exceptions of course, and sorry if I sound negative, but the end of winter is the wrong fukkkkung time to ask me about fukkkkung heating in Shanghai.

If you can get a gas powered, water heating system installed, the floor systems are good, but the floors needs to be insulated well below the pipes.

If you get a water pipe and radiator system installed in the walls or ceiling, make sure the pipes are insulated especially the ones that run on the outside walls. The concrete walls and cold outside air 'suck' the heat out of everything.

Consider getting multiple water heaters, one main one and then a smaller one for each bathroom.

The most efficient thing however, is to put separate heaters in each room. Heat is heat (energy is energy) so heating something in one room and then piping it to another room is waste, especially in poorly insulated concrete buildings. Unless the look and style of the heating is important to you or the landlord, it would be about as efficient and probably much less expensive to put an electric, oil filled radiator in each room. But, you need to make sure the apartment's wiring and fuses can handle the wattage, about 600W to 1000W for small rooms and 1500W for large rooms. I did this in my last apartment, it ended up costing about the same (more for electric, less for gas) but the heat was consistent and the apartment was warmer and the heating system then never interferred with hot showers.
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Re: Central Heating Installation

Postby dincer80 » Fri Apr 30, 2010 10:59 am

CarlosPatatas wrote:... Failing that, any suggestions as to the going rate for a 2 bedroom apartment with GCH in XuJiaHui or JingAn and recommended estate agents would also be welcome. ...


I don't know if your current landlord is really willing to start such a renovation for his apartment but even if he is, it'll also be a disturbing period for you..
So my suggestion is to switch to a well-insulated (double-glass windows etc.) apartment with floor heating if possible, before October/November :)

Mainly because of this heating problem, we moved in to Tai Fu Ming Di last winter and we are quite happy so far.. It was a nice, warm winter thanks to the floor heating.. The gas bill was a bit too high but the comfort worth every penny of it :)

Sent you a PM by the way..
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Re: Central Heating Installation

Postby floridamary4 » Mon Jul 05, 2010 9:38 pm

thanks for postings :)

Heating Repairs
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Re: Central Heating Installation

Postby Centralman » Tue Sep 06, 2011 3:39 pm

Hi
Thanks for the sharing! 8)

Our gas heating services is one of the leading experts in central heating installations and service. We are experts in providing guidance regarding central heating systems.
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Re: Central Heating Installation

Postby kellyjohn012 » Mon Feb 06, 2012 7:07 pm

Central heating refers to a system of ductwork, vents, and a furnace that allows heat to be circulated throughout a building’s entire interior at once. When combined with other systems the whole system is referred as HVAC (heating, ventilation and air conditioning) system. Bigger buildings as well as homes can be equipped with central heating. The heat is typically generated from one location and distributed throughout the home or building. For bigger buildings there can be more than one heating unit. In areas that become hot in the summer and require air conditioning, it is generally routed at the same time as central heating. They are often combined in one unit and use the same ducts and vents to distribute air to each room. The units used to create and pump hot or cold air can be powered by gas or electricity, although blowers generally require electricity to get heat into every room.

Westlake Air Conditioning
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Re: Central Heating Installation

Postby lowlight » Mon Feb 06, 2012 10:42 pm

the place i'm renting has zone based central ac with a heating function (i assume it's a reverse heat pump). it's pretty efficient, and i can turn it up and it gets the room up to about 24 degrees though the apartment is pretty well insulated. a drafty apartment might not heat up as well but it seems pretty efficient as running the system 18h/day for two rooms (60sqm) is only about 500rmb/mo. from what i understand, reverse heat pumps are really efficient as long as the outside temps are at least in the single digits, which it is in shanghai most of the time.
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Re: Central Heating Installation

Postby pretender21 » Tue Feb 07, 2012 3:37 pm

trying to evaluate and see if anyone has experience moving from a central heating place to an apartment with wall mounted A/C units?

As far as matters of cold/heat and also cost?

Thanks ahead,
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Re: Central Heating Installation

Postby chingiskhan » Tue Feb 07, 2012 3:52 pm

CoffeeHawk_0 wrote:But, you need to make sure the apartment's wiring and fuses can handle the wattage, about 600W to 1000W for small rooms and 1500W for large rooms.


Yes, I have 3 electric heaters and if they're all on at the same time, I can't use my hair dryer or the kettle. It's not a huge issue. I just turn all of them off before I blow dry my hair which only takes 30 seconds then turn them back on again. During that time the room temperature of course doesn't drop but it's a minor hassle.

Is it just a case of changing the fuse wire for a thicker wire? The maintenance man at my old apartment did this for me and charged me 5 RMB. He also thought I was mad, because I had 3 heaters on in 3 different rooms.
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Re: Central Heating Installation

Postby johnny_tropicana » Wed Feb 08, 2012 5:01 am

chingiskhan wrote:
CoffeeHawk_0 wrote:But, you need to make sure the apartment's wiring and fuses can handle the wattage, about 600W to 1000W for small rooms and 1500W for large rooms.


Yes, I have 3 electric heaters and if they're all on at the same time, I can't use my hair dryer or the kettle. It's not a huge issue. I just turn all of them off before I blow dry my hair which only takes 30 seconds then turn them back on again. During that time the room temperature of course doesn't drop but it's a minor hassle.

Is it just a case of changing the fuse wire for a thicker wire? The maintenance man at my old apartment did this for me and charged me 5 RMB. He also thought I was mad, because I had 3 heaters on in 3 different rooms.

Before you play around with electricity, make certain that the main breaker
is able to handle the draws you are placing upon it. You can have all the appliances
that you want, but if the system does not have enough ability to supply to your
needs, you will either slowly or quickly kill the appliance- they require enough
electricity (amps in this case) to operate their internals, not enough, it is like
a computer trying to operate too many systems without sufficient memory capability.
The downside is the early death of the appliance.
There is also a significant possibility that you can cause an electrical fire.
Neither of which is a good thing.
My belief is that the various mechanical systems here are under engineered,
and insufficient to the task at hand.
This will hopefully get better as more and more western engineering is copied
and utilized in China. Perhaps a decade or so away, as better systems will be
needed to keep the health of this nation on the upswing that they want to showcase.
We were meant to live for so much more
Have we lost ourselves?
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