Since more and more expats are having their baby in Shanghai, I wonder if it's necessary to give the baby a Chinese name, just as you need to have a Chinese name on your work permit in China.

I really have a problem of thinking a Chinese name for my baby girl. I think I will just leave a charactor at the middle name to show that she has something to do with China. And when she grows up and becomes more interested in China and Chinese culture, she can think of a Chinese name by herself.

I've got plenty of suggestion of Chinese name to my baby girl from my friends and colleagues, but they all sound kind of unnatural for me.

Did you or are you trying to get a Chinese name for your baby? If so, how did you choose the name? (I guess translating the English name into Chinese directly does not count)

Thanks.

Of course we gave our baby a Chinese name. Unlike some people who move away from China and then suddenly act like they are no longer Chinese, I will not forget that my family has roots here and my son in fact continues the traditional Chinese name series. Its a good thing your child will have a Chinese name as regardless of where she will be in the future, she will always bee seen as Chinese in some way shape or form by non-Chinese, and if she at least has a Chinese name, she may get recognized for being Chinese by at least some Chinese. otherwise, She may end up like my friend's daughter whose Chinese grandmother called her a 洋娃娃 (Foreign Doll) and her American Grandmother caller her her "China Doll". Sad that people only see the differences... but a reality in our world.

I have friends who have chosen a second name for their babies which is Chinese.
The name Mei goes nicely with just about anything up front...........Charlotte Mei, Anna Mei, Linda Mei.........I think the combination is nice for essentially Laowai babies born (or made) in China

Then Yu888 can you tell me how you chose the name for your child? I think it's just so difficult to think of a Chinese name or to just take whatever names other people suggest me. I've seen a lot of expats here choosing their own Chinese name but they just sound funny. I have a cousin who name himself " Haolong" -- good dragon or proud dragon. I hope my daughter won't be laughed at when she goes to China one day with her Chinese name.

If I'm not wrong Shanghaicn neither you nor your husband are Chinese am I right?

If I were in the position of having to name my kid again, i would go to my parents / grandparents to see if there are any pre-designated generation names that should be considered. i realise in your case you are the mom and so you may not actually end up using the correct generational name, but you can get ideas from the generation names. If you think the non-chinese picked names are "funny" think about the thousands of simple Chinese names that the peasant class has names theri kids here after teh cultural revolution "equalized" the masses.

Anyhow, from their i would add a personal character and whether it be a reflection of her personality now or how you wish her to be, or some other projection of your wishes for your daughter, it can be reflected in her name. Please also keep in mind that it probably should not SOUND like anything bad. For example, my son's name in CHinese is 启康。 We jokingly considered 启讧 which sounds exactly like 起哄。 Our firts choice was actually 启瑞，despite it soundiing like a Chinese Automotive brand(Chery), but in the end it was the usage of the character ”瑞“ that could not be , due to my grandfather having that character as his name, and in Chinese culture, that is a faux pas. In most wester cultures, naming a child the name of an ancestor is an honour...oh well.

Good luck though...naming in Chinese is actually a very sophisticated and complicated process. Seemingly probably much to complicated for even most Chinese these days to get it right. or maybe many just don't care or can't afford to care.

yu888 wrote:Of course we gave our baby a Chinese name.

does he have an english name as well?

yu888 wrote:Unlike some people who move away from China and then suddenly act like they are no longer Chinese...

how does one "act like they are no longer Chinese?" i have my own thoughts on this, but i'm curious where u stand on this.

I think 启康 sounds nice and meaningful. I wonder how long it took you to think of such a nice name. Could be 9 months? Cause I don't have much time left.

Wow, I didn't know the child's name can't have any character of an ancestor. My father is Chinese and I almost wanted to name my daughter by my grandmather, cause I found she has a nice name, too. Thank you for telling me that, Yu888.

The reason I find it so difficult to find a good Chinese name is there're too many charactors in Chinese and different combination and sound can sound really funny.

shanghaicn wrote:The reason I find it so difficult to find a good Chinese name is there're too many charactors in Chinese and different combination and sound can sound really funny.

there are far fewer characters in mandarin than there are english words, even if u exclude the fifty bagillion technical terms (e.g.: deoxyribonucleic acid). but seeing how mandarin is a phonetically based language, it follows that there will naturally be a ton more homonyms than compared to english.

as for sounding funny, well, it true the other way around too. e.g.: the name, Danielle, phonetically translated can mean: egg piss.

how does one "act like they are no longer Chinese?" i have my own thoughts on this, but i'm curious where u stand on this.

I left China and act like I'm no longer Chinese:D When I was in China I had to act like a Chinese so that nobody rip me off. Now I'm in Germany and I'm acting like a German. but I do know a lof of Chinese people in Germany who act just like Chinese. They are living in their Chinese community but I don't have much to do with them.

8lrr8 wrote:

shanghaicn wrote:The reason I find it so difficult to find a good Chinese name is there're too many charactors in Chinese and different combination and sound can sound really funny.

there are far fewer characters in mandarin than there are english words, even if u exclude the fifty bagillion technical terms (e.g.: deoxyribonucleic acid). but seeing how mandarin is a phonetically based language, it follows that there will naturally be a ton more homonyms than compared to english.

as for sounding funny, well, it true the other way around too. e.g.: the name, Danielle, phonetically translated can mean: egg piss.

True, there might be more English words than Chinese characters. But you can just match all the Chinese characters freely and have new combination which actually mean something. And there's only limited amount of English name. We picked the English name of our baby in less than 1 week.

I think egg piss is very bad translation of Danielle. egg cow is better. It can be a good name for baby who is born in the cow year.

8lrr8 wrote:

yu888 wrote:Of course we gave our baby a Chinese name.

does he have an english name as well?

of course. those who have met him from this community all know him by that name or "Babyyu"

8lrr8 wrote:

yu888 wrote:Unlike some people who move away from China and then suddenly act like they are no longer Chinese...

how does one "act like they are no longer Chinese?" i have my own thoughts on this, but i'm curious where u stand on this.

Well this is obviously a swipe at self-hating emmigrants from China that either through education or by marriage, go to another country and whether purposefully or not, act out their insecurities by putting on the air of being a foreigner instead of being Chinese. Often you will hear these people refer to other Chinese as "Them" or "They" and will identify themselves more with their new homeland. In teh US we hear of many of these folks who refer to themselves as ABC's, much to my amusement.

I don't really think they are all self hating, or even all that insecure, but its just sad to see many of these people however subconciously, denying their own heritage.

shanghaicn wrote:egg cow is better.

better is subjective. i was talking about phonetic objectivity!

yu888 wrote:of course. those who have met him from this community all know him by that name or "Babyyu"

something tells me he was born in the states. making him an automatic U.S. citizen. so i'm also guessing his chinese name is translated into pinyin and is his middle name, whereas his english name is his first name?

that happened to me after i was naturalized.

yu888 wrote:Often you will hear these people refer to other Chinese as "Them" or "They" and will identify themselves more with their new homeland.

u mean immediately or after some time living in the "new world?"

i consider myself an american and chinese simultaneously. chin-amer. if forced to pick only one, i'd say i'm more american than chinese. but it's not like i'm self-hating. history speaks for itself: i grew up in the states, the culture there influences how i think, what i think, and how i see the world.

yu888 wrote:In teh US we hear of many of these folks who refer to themselves as ABC's, much to my amusement.

i dont see it like that. to me, ABC is just a synonym for 2nd generation chinese. 3 syllables vs. 8. people are often lazy in pronunciation.

yu888 wrote:I don't really think they are all self hating, or even all that insecure, but its just sad to see many of these people however subconciously, denying their own heritage.

where u say "deny" i say reject (i.e. dont bother to learn it). maybe we're referring to the same thing? maybe not?

i remember one episode back in HS. another chinese student had a beef w/ me. so one day he tried insulting me by calling me a banana. i'm thinking "u got a lot of nerve. i'm not the one w/ not a single asian friend."
later on i found out he didnt even know how to use chopsticks. that was pretty shocking.

In China, the elder(grandpa, as usuall) names the baby, it's always a hard work. 1 years back, I rejected to name my nephew(my cousin asked me to name his son) because I found I couldn't carry out a name even could satisfy with myself, so after 2 weeks effort I gave it up.Maybe I was over captious. but naming a baby is really very very difficult.
I know sometimes foreigners give themselves Chinese names by phonogram(谐音) of their English name, such as 费文斯( Vince Fry), 裴安嘉( Angela Peterson), 杨凯博( Campbell Young)......If it sounds good, it will be a good solution. certain character can be flexible if sounds not good. Try this way

Actually Babyyu is born to two US citizen parents so regardless of where we have kids they would be Naturally Born US Citizens...not that it has much to do with this particular discussion.

no beef with your perspective at all. Only correction I must make though is that the term "ABC" means second generation or beyond. ABC is not a synonym rather an acronyn for "American (Austrailan too)-born Chinese". Only the generation 1.5ers have tried to use it to mean more. I am not saying I don't understand that that particular generation, your generation, in many cases are more "westernized" than some of their ABC counterparts as I do...both personally and academically (have my degree in Asian American Studies focusing on Chinese American community)

As for deny and/or reject, probably very similar and i don't disagree that either works.

Oh and one more thing, while I AM an ABC, its not one of those monikers I would wear on my sleeve like many others I have met. Some expats here of this background seem to try and use that as their claim to fame. Silly really.

yu888 wrote:Oh and one more thing, while I AM an ABC, its not one of those monikers I would wear on my sleeve like many others I have met.

ditto. even if i were, which i'm not (altho i'm close, being one of those 1.5'ers), that's not exactly the first category i'd put myself in.

Anyone considered getting a 'Made in China' tattoo for their baby?

Maybe it's something they can do when they are 18...

I am no expert but just some personal opinion/suggestion.

Chinese names is uaually in the form of Family name + Given name. Family name is uaually 1 (to 2) characters in the front and then given name is uaually 1 or 2 characters after the surname.

So I think may consider to use 1 chinese character to represent the family name (which could then be carry forward in future) and then plus 1-2 characters as given name. The given name could be in similar pronouncation or meaning with the name or simiply with a unique chinese given name. Numerous chinese characters could be used for given names, just check the dictionary for the pronounciation and the meaning. For example our kid has a chinese character of 琳 ('lin')which means fine jade.
Taking example above may be, for example, Cambell (family name) may be simply use characters like 甘 ('gang', sound similar to Cambell), this is also a surname which exist in Chinese and could be carried forward to next generations. Given name like Vince may be names like 韵思 (yun si, meaning relate to music, intelligence etc), 韵姿 (yun zi, menaing relate to music, good posture etc) - simiply some words to convey a pronouncation, a good wish, in memory of someting etc.

The company I used to work back in HK also has a lot of expats and need to supply name for them for business cards etc. The name used is mostly in 2-3 characters (in line with usual chinese name) and is not simply a dicrect phonetic translation of English as I sometimes found in China. The words used are always with good meanings such as 成,城,诚 (all pronounced 'cheng', which could mean success, sincere etc.) but pronounciations similar to the English family name.

However personally I think one limitation is that the name is only based on the family name and ignored the given name so it would be difficult to past to next generation - as usually for chinese name - it will be strange to have father and daughter to have same chinese name or different Chinese 'surname', right? That's why I suggest to hvae similar word to indicate the surname/family name and then use the other characters for the given name.
Just personal opinion anyway...

supplement, you should be aware of those characters's "gender". Some characters are "male", such as 威，刚，杰； Some are "female", such as 芳，雯，兰.
Be careful, don't give you baby a opposite gender name even if the character is your favorite one.( sometimes it happens,but it's hardly to feel normal)

http://shanghaiist.com/2007/08/17/chine ... p#comments

an interesting related story...sort of

yeah, my Chinese father gave me my Chinese name and I've been hating it even till now.

I wonder if you give your baby a Chinese name, how will you put it? I think I will position it like first name (English) + middle name (Chinese) + Family name (English).

So, Yu888, I wonder how your baby's name is written on the passport? Is it Qikang Yu? That might be difficult for Americans to pronounce it.

At least for one thing I'm released. I only need to think of a Chinese name which sounds nice, I don't have to think of the exact charactors because in the baby's passport, the name will be written in only English:)

And why would i care if Americans can pronounce my son's Chinese name? Not my problem if someone cannot pronounce it...as if any Americans can pronounce my surname in the first place, (everyone pronounces it like "yoo" when as you know its actually "yü")
He also has an English Given name, and his Chinese name as a second name (as 8rrl8 noted earlier) but yes, that is how it reads on his birth certificate and all subsequent ID's/

yu888 wrote:And why would i care if Americans can pronounce my son's Chinese name? Not my problem if someone cannot pronounce it.

but this isnt gonna be a prob since he has an english first name, which i can only presume is what 99% of people are gonna call him by.

yu888 wrote:..as if any Americans can pronounce my surname in the first place, (everyone pronounces it like "yoo" when as you know its actually "yü")

but surely this doesnt annoy u? when speaking english, u dont pronounce shanghai as shang4 hai2, no? or say your surname is zhou, do u pronounce it "chew" or zhou1 when speaking english? my friend's surname is chou (wade-giles), and he pronounces it as "chew" when speaking english. it's simply the american pronunciation. i dont see anything wrong w/ it.

yu888 wrote:He also has an English Given name, and his Chinese name as a second name (as 8rrl8 noted earlier) but yes, that is how it reads on his birth certificate and all subsequent ID's/

a buddy of mine officially changed his name by adding an american name as his first, and bump his chinese name into the middle. but this happened when he was in his early 20's. i speculate he did this because he felt it would improve his changes of landing a job after graduation. i thought that was retarded, but i never said anything.

a handful of people still call him by his original name, including me. but he introduces himself to everyone he meets going forward w/ his english name. hell, i dont even know if his GF knows his original (now middle) name.

i also know of a white kid who changed his name back in the 3rd grade. he thought he would be more popular as a result. that didnt work.

like i said it doesn't bother me and its not my problem. though i DO point it out on occassion if someone is annoying or I just decide to be an extra ass .. it was just meant as an example o f such to the OP who asked about whether or not people could pronounce it.

So, Yu888, I wonder how your baby's name is written on the passport? Is it Qikang Yu? That might be difficult for Americans to pronounce it.

And why would i care if Americans can pronounce my son's Chinese name? Not my problem if someone cannot pronounce it...as if any Americans can pronounce my surname in the first place, (everyone pronounces it like "yoo" when as you know its actually "yü")

ironically the comment about Americans not being able to pronounce Chinese names, or having difficulty with them, is not far removed from here where in fact the opposite can be applied. Chinese have difficulty pronouncing "western names and words" and fall back into the same habit, substituting sounds that are familiar and conditioned. When i first came to China I also made some simple phonetic mistakes based on social conditioning and phonetic engineering , eg., hua... i would pronounce "who-are" since in Maori that's how that syllable is pronounced, there are other examples too where Maori and Mandarin share common syllables but sound remarkably different. No biggie that's the celebration of differing cultures and backgrounds. So its not a unique set off rules...

leidelaohu wrote:

yu888 wrote:Well this is obviously a swipe at self-hating emmigrants from China that either through education or by marriage, go to another country and whether purposefully or not, act out their insecurities by putting on the air of being a foreigner instead of being Chinese. Often you will hear these people refer to other Chinese as "Them" or "They" and will identify themselves more with their new homeland. In the US we hear of many of these folks who refer to themselves as ABC's, much to my amusement.

I don't really think they are all self hating, or even all that insecure, but its just sad to see many of these people however subconciously, denying their own heritage.

I guess it's passe now but that used to be the point of America. New start, new life, new possibilities. Immigrants weren't "self-hating" as much as filled with hope that they could do something better. Yu know, the olde worldes both east and west really were not that great

Not passé at all old tiger, just annoying to see people deny their own heritage once they are in the new world. Sad. The point should be to amalgamate, not assimilate as then you CAN get the best of both worlds.

Well, i i have something to do with chinese culture or one of my parents is chinese, so i definitely will do that, because is part of a culture no one can deny that, growing up in a culture and nothing can change that even moving to a new country and taking new habits and so on, i love my country and my culture as well "VIVA EL PERU". But of course there is always people who has been living in another countries for so long and when they comeback home they act like they don't know anything "what a shame but is true" so i think is the same with people from china living overseas this happen evewhere.

Well, i i have something to do with chinese culture or one of my parents is chinese, so i definitely will do that, because is part of a culture no one can deny that, growing up in a culture and nothing can change that even moving to a new country and taking new habits and so on, i love my country and my culture as well "VIVA EL PERU". But of course there is always people who has been living in another countries for so long and when they comeback home they act like they don't know anything "what a shame but is true" so i think is the same with people from china living overseas this happen evewhere.

...sometimes it is because they actually don't know anything about the culture to which they are akined... and therefore everything is as foreign to them as it would be to any outsider