Hallo everybody,

This is me first post on here!

I am coming back to Shanghai from the UK for the third time in april next year and I am going to be teaching English, possibly for WEB International again (be interesting to hear what anyone thinks about them!)

Teaching is not really something I excel at but as I have no other skills I have have been seriously thinking about learning to be a computer programmer.
What I'd like to know about is what the job market is like for western computer programmers in Shanghai, or China in general, or if there even is such a thing.

What kind of stuff I'd like to program? I don't really know as of yet
I'm learning to use C++ with the book "accelerated c++" which is really good by the way.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

for the computer programming, i think the web technology is the most valuable way ,maybe not but definately in the future. but language is only a language, the basic logical thinking is quite important as many language are similar to C or C++ .so first start learning C ++ and then you could easily learn many thing else no matter what it is

You actually mean you plan to come to Shanghai, learn programming and then find a job here? Then you are going to compete with millions of local computer science graduates who are willing to work for 300USD per month or less and would have received a longer training that you are going to do and have a bachelor degree as a proof. Are you willing to take USD300 a month as salary?

Foreign IT hires are usually more experienced and thus can command a higher salary. To come here to start learning programming will not give you any advantage over the local Chinese to make you attractive to potential employers.

My experience with good programmers, is that its a passion with them. Many start out getting some self taught skill before they ever take up formal training. If you are just looking for another job and have never done an html page before...it might not be your passion.

Yes.. web technologies are most in demand in some of the circles I am aware of. Yes, Cylon is right. coming here to learn programming and compete on the local market (maybe not knowing how to speak read and write chinese also? ) will get you no where. Good to pick up technical skill, but do not expect to get rich from it.

Longer term you might want to think about developing project management skills - people who know how to plan, organize and manage resources so that things happen. That is needed here and what good bilingual foreigners with some experience can get paid for.

Thanks for your replies

Cylon, I understand what you mean but I'm not expecting to learn progrmamming in a couple of months and find a great job straight away, it's a long term plan, although i'm still only in the idea phase really. I'm thinking about the next 5+ years of my life and beyond, maybe I'll even study a degree. I'm pretty sure I'll be teaching for for quite a long while before anything happens for me tho.

I feel that it's more than just getting another job for me as computer technology is something that I have a passion for. I've always got along very well with computers but it just never crossed my mind to try programming before. although I did some flash design and other bits of higher level programming during a Creative Music Technology Degree.

Web design is another thing I've thought about but no Michael I've never done an HTML page before! I've never thought about doing anything like project managment before, how does one get into that? It's an interesting idea.

Thanks for your encouragement kamehamehon, are you a programmer yourself? I'm interested to know more about the web technology side of things do you know any good articles about it?

I'm thinking about things that I could do in China as it's where my girlfreind is based and I don't like being away from her. I don't know a lot of chinese yet but that is top of my agenda to learn.

anyway I think I'll just see how it goes with c++ for now, I've got a few months of nothing to do ahead so I'm going to try and get through that book and have some fun.

thankyou guyz

minimaltom wrote:Thanks for your replies

Thanks for your encouragement kamehamehon, are you a programmer yourself? I'm interested to know more about the web technology side of things do you know any good articles about it?

thankyou guyz

yes, i am a web programmer and actually i run a website design/development studio based in shanghai : www.jimmygraphic.com

we only do website design/development as our guys are passionate for that.
Back to the programming learning, or even learning, i do not very rely on any book or articals. The way i use is Learning From the book + Try yourself + Summary.

You could and really need to start from C or C++ i think ,as that give you the very basic computer logical thinking on the moment and then you could feel easy to get starting with HTML, PHP, Database Sql language.

For the book i use to learn these stuff, i mostly choose O'reilly ,this brand and then learn and try to programming by myself

dont push yourself too much as it couldnt be done within one day and setup a good plan

for the job competition here, i dont agree with cylon for the 300usd. yes ,we have a large amount of people here and but very very people could do a good job and be reliable.

So if you have passion for that, keep going and try your best !

ps: i didnt study and computer language in the university and i learn it by myself when after graduated with passion. So could really understand what do you think.

any more questions ,feel free to send me the mail: mike@jimmygraphic.com

hi kamehamehon,

It's great to hear that you started out in a similar position as me and seem to have been successful.
Where do you and your employees come from or are you Chinese?

your website is just a blank page! is it not up and running yet?