do Expats get more vacation time than in jobs back home?

All you need to know about moving to or around Shanghai! Find out if Puxi(West of the Huangpu River) or Pudong(East of the river) work for you

do Expats get more vacation time than in jobs back home?

Postby trenchwire » Tue Jun 22, 2010 5:15 pm

Do Expats get more vacation time than in jobs back home? I want to know because I am in a basically expat situation for a smaller company and I want to see if I am being reasonable to think that:

--annual paid home leave is an additional benefit or compensation to make up for the stress of relocating to a foreign country and staying there. It is SEPARATE from annual paid vacation. in my company get twice a year;

--since in my country the USA people generally choose when they take their vacations, as opposed to China where almost everyone goes on vacation at certain dates (National Day, Chinese New Year, 5/1 etc.), and I work for an American company where if I were working in the States as normal I would be able to do the same, I should also get paid vacation separate from home leave and I can choose when to go on vacation taking my company's needs into consideration;

--since I can't effectively work during the Chinese holidays, office closed, business partners on holiday, etc. I also get these vacation days by default, but they should NOT count towards my total vacation days, just like the expat home leave shouldn't count.

So overall I get more vacation time than a local employee in US or a local employee in China would.

Does the above seem fair and reasonable to most mid/upper-level manager expats? Or am I asking too much?
trenchwire
Barker
Barker
 
Posts: 198
Joined: Sat Jun 28, 2008 1:49 pm

Re: do Expats get more vacation time than in jobs back home?

Postby KalanStar » Tue Jun 22, 2010 5:24 pm

Most companies give vacation time in addition to National holidays, but they may stipulate dates in your contract when you cannot take a vacation, ie. busy seasons.

As for getting paid leave to go home twice a year because of the stress associated with living in China, this SHOULD COUNT as vacation time. BTW: I have never heard of getting paid leave to go home because of relocation stress before :roll: Anyone who cannot handle living overseas should probably not live overseas in my opinion.

I think Chinese companies (or foreign ones located in China) don't really like giving vacation time at all, so I'd be careful about asking for too much. I found an internal HR document in my firm that outlined what is considered when evaluating employees for raises and promotions. One criteria was if the employee took their allotted vacation time or not. Not taking vacation time got points towards raise/promo, while using allotted vacation time took points away :shock: .

That being said, I take about 4 weeks a year, whereas my contract states 1 week. ;)

In China, btw, you'll often be expected to do the work you'll miss by going on vacation, before and after your vacation!!!! "Ah Monday's a holiday :) Oh crap, that means I have to work Saturday :cry: "
Last edited by KalanStar on Tue Jun 22, 2010 5:32 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Bored Legend...
User avatar
KalanStar
Post Roaster
Post Roaster
 
Posts: 4088
Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2009 11:47 am

Re: do Expats get more vacation time than in jobs back home?

Postby yunnanexpat » Tue Jun 22, 2010 5:28 pm

trenchwire wrote:--since I can't effectively work during the Chinese holidays, office closed, business partners on holiday, etc. I also get these vacation days by default, but they should NOT count towards my total vacation days, just like the expat home leave shouldn't count.

So overall I get more vacation time than a local employee in US or a local employee in China would.

Does the above seem fair and reasonable to most mid/upper-level manager expats? Or am I asking too much?


Considering that in the USA upper level management gets 1-2 weeks off nowadays, China is just like the USA in that regard. Holiday time is about the same as the USA. If you were from any other 1st World nation you would think that China works you to death. In the USA the holidays are all one additional day that make up a 3-day weekend. In China they result in a week off, twice per year. I don't understand why you think that 'expat home leave' is not to be counted to wards your holiday time. Are you working and earning the company money during this leave?

That being said I get 180 days a year off and work part-time the other 185 here in China. I think that expats in China (and nearly everywhere else) get much more vacation time than in the States only because the USA works people to death when compared to almost any other country.
Goodbye and good riddance to the regulars here at Shexpat.

I have never encountered a more rude, cruel, reading challenged group of people in all of my life. Calling you all 'arrrseholes' would be an insult to a-holes.
yunnanexpat
LoopKicker
LoopKicker
 
Posts: 983
Joined: Fri Feb 26, 2010 11:21 pm

Re: do Expats get more vacation time than in jobs back home?

Postby bigroh74 » Tue Jun 22, 2010 5:40 pm

In my former job in the UK the holiday allowance was 7 weeks plus public holidays (another 5 or so days throughout the year. Here, in more or less the same job, I get 4 weeks plus all the Chinese holidays.

Have to agree with Kalanstar, if you need extra time off for stress then you're in the wrong job.
bigroh74
Veejay
Veejay
 
Posts: 1854
Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2009 11:24 pm

Re: do Expats get more vacation time than in jobs back home?

Postby MoonOverMiami » Tue Jun 22, 2010 5:54 pm

In a way, I like the Chinese holiday schedule because the air fare is cheaper when I fly home during CNY, or to other destinations in October.

However, I would not request that these are given in addition to the Chinese holidays and vacation.
Charly: "Were you always this stupid or did you take lessons?"
Mitch: "I took lessons."
User avatar
MoonOverMiami
Fire-eater
Fire-eater
 
Posts: 2579
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2008 9:58 am

Re: do Expats get more vacation time than in jobs back home?

Postby Andreas » Tue Jun 22, 2010 7:04 pm

Got 6 weeks before I came here, and about 7 now. That's not including the national holidays of course. And my actual holidays taken is actually a lot more. It's all a matter of how you negotiate this.
‘How inappropriate to call this planet Earth when it is quite clearly Ocean.’
- Sir Arthur C. Clarke
User avatar
Andreas

Shanghai Royalty
Shanghai Royalty
 
Posts: 8474
Mood: Happy
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2004 1:46 pm
Location: The Land that Time forgot.

Re: do Expats get more vacation time than in jobs back home?

Postby scamparella » Tue Jun 22, 2010 10:41 pm

In my former job in the UK the holiday allowance was 7 weeks plus public holidays (another 5 or so days throughout the year. Here, in more or less the same job, I get 4 weeks plus all the Chinese holidays

In my former job in the UK the holiday allowance was 5 weeks plus public holidays (another 5 or so days throughout the year. Here, in more or less the same job (european company), I also get 4 weeks plus all the Chinese holidays
...loss of 5 days :-(
Last edited by scamparella on Tue Jun 22, 2010 10:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
scamparella
Rocker
Rocker
 
Posts: 706
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2004 1:55 am

Re: do Expats get more vacation time than in jobs back home?

Postby scamparella » Tue Jun 22, 2010 10:43 pm

I should add this is still 5 days MORE than my chinese co-workers who get a very generous (for chinese) 15 days. (maybe what i get is the additional 'home leave'... but i don't have to use it to go back to UK)
we can all take it when we want, many store it all up and have a month off at CNY

I think the US model of 2 weeks is Disgraceful - where is the life??
User avatar
scamparella
Rocker
Rocker
 
Posts: 706
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2004 1:55 am

Re: do Expats get more vacation time than in jobs back home?

Postby tnmom » Wed Jun 23, 2010 3:27 am

Considering that in the USA upper level management gets 1-2 weeks off nowadays


Really? I thought it went up with the number of years with the company - they may only take 2 weeks but in most companies they get more than that. My husband has been with his company 25 years and gets around 5 weeks off plus holidays - in line with the averages in this article:

http://www.salary.com/personal/layoutsc ... art=par088

Home leave time is included the vacation time - it's not extra. But the airfare is covered by the company.
User avatar
tnmom
LoopKicker
LoopKicker
 
Posts: 817
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2004 8:56 am
Location: Shanghai

Re: do Expats get more vacation time than in jobs back home?

Postby yunnanexpat » Wed Jun 23, 2010 8:18 am

tnmom wrote:
Considering that in the USA upper level management gets 1-2 weeks off nowadays


Really? I thought it went up with the number of years with the company - they may only take 2 weeks but in most companies they get more than that. My husband has been with his company 25 years and gets around 5 weeks off plus holidays - in line with the averages in this article:

http://www.salary.com/personal/layoutsc ... art=par088

Home leave time is included the vacation time - it's not extra. But the airfare is covered by the company.


Past tense. I have only worked at small companies and the SVP and CEO both took off 2 weeks a year, in one week stretches.
Goodbye and good riddance to the regulars here at Shexpat.

I have never encountered a more rude, cruel, reading challenged group of people in all of my life. Calling you all 'arrrseholes' would be an insult to a-holes.
yunnanexpat
LoopKicker
LoopKicker
 
Posts: 983
Joined: Fri Feb 26, 2010 11:21 pm

Re: do Expats get more vacation time than in jobs back home?

Postby badger02 » Wed Jun 23, 2010 9:53 am

i get 20 days plus the national Chinese holidays, I used to get 25 plus national in the UK. I am at senior management level, but 1 below director level if that helps.

most of my chinese colleagues get between 10 and 15 days, though I don't what the CEO / CFO / COO get. 10 days is crap, and my HR dept are looking into increasing this to a min of 15 days.

agree with above comments, home leave is part of your personal holiday allocation, good luck if you can get your company to agree to that :)

also echo kalanstar, be careful of having to work the weekends before and after national holidays, eg the recent Dragon boat holiday is only 1 day, it was on a Wednesday, we were expected to take the Mon-Wed of, but work the Sat & Sun beforehand. It sucked because it made the previous week a 7 day working week, next holiday I will complain to HR, just give us the Wednesday of, and leave our weekends free, every person I spoke to at my work preferred this, but there's prob some law somewhere preenting this.
badger02
Ranter
Ranter
 
Posts: 598
Joined: Sat Nov 24, 2007 5:22 pm

Re: do Expats get more vacation time than in jobs back home?

Postby MoonOverMiami » Wed Jun 23, 2010 10:42 am

badger02 wrote:...but there's prob some law somewhere preenting this.


No laws preventing it. Its only a gov't recommendation to work the weekend before the holiday in order to get the 3 days in a row off. We only had that Wednesday off for the Dragonboat Festival.
Charly: "Were you always this stupid or did you take lessons?"
Mitch: "I took lessons."
User avatar
MoonOverMiami
Fire-eater
Fire-eater
 
Posts: 2579
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2008 9:58 am

Re: do Expats get more vacation time than in jobs back home?

Postby bleepingbleeper » Wed Jun 23, 2010 11:01 am

scamparella wrote:I think the US model of 2 weeks is Disgraceful - where is the life??

so do i! after reading about all you european people's vacation days, i'm full of envy.

we start out with 2wks per year, not including national holidays. after 5yrs tenure, it gets bumped to 3wks/yr...woopee! i believe senior mgmt starts at 3-4wks/yr, but i rarely see them take any vacation days except maybe adding a few days to big holidays like christmas.

and our HR even instituted a rule a couple years ago that puts a ceiling on the carry-over for unused vacation days. we used to get paid at the end of the year for unused vacation days over 15days. now, anything over 15 is just lost.

even with our meager vacation days, people usually don't want to take too much time off because your work just piles up while you're gone. take 3 days off, come back, and your email inbox is filled to capacity with several hundred new emails... it's either that or spend part of your vacation working.

in my company, expats (incl. taiwanese) in china get regular home-trips but we MUST WORK EVERY SATURDAY to offset these trips! it's a sh1tty deal for me, as i'd rather use my vacation days for home trips and not work weekends. but there's no choice! working saturdays is mandatory for expats whether we take our home-trips or not. it's especially bad for those on short-term business trips to china b/c they don't get equal time off for the extra saturdays they work! this is making me angrier just typing this out!!!

i really really want to work for a european company...
bleepingbleeper
Veejay
Veejay
 
Posts: 2052
Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2009 5:24 pm

Re: do Expats get more vacation time than in jobs back home?

Postby badger02 » Wed Jun 23, 2010 11:29 am

you have to work every sat to make up for home trips, WTF, I feel aggrieved for you. how long have you been doing that ?

If an expat needs to go home that often, then this is not the right place or time for them.
badger02
Ranter
Ranter
 
Posts: 598
Joined: Sat Nov 24, 2007 5:22 pm

Re: do Expats get more vacation time than in jobs back home?

Postby yunnanexpat » Wed Jun 23, 2010 3:17 pm

scamparella wrote:I should add this is still 5 days MORE than my chinese co-workers who get a very generous (for chinese) 15 days. (maybe what i get is the additional 'home leave'... but i don't have to use it to go back to UK)
we can all take it when we want, many store it all up and have a month off at CNY

I think the US model of 2 weeks is Disgraceful - where is the life??


Yes, more vacation time makes for a better life.

However the current world financial situation and the collapse of the funding for those EU generous benefits is going to change people's perspectives on this matter. It seems that those great European benefits may have been a decades long bubble or Ponzi, and now that the bill is due there is no money. The USA has the same problem - Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid are broke.

Someone has to pay the taxes for us to not work and have 6 week holidays while we do not produce, and eventually we run out of other people's money to spend. It seems that threshold was reached within the past 2 years. Someone has to work to pay for 'free single payer healthcare'. Even Canada is seeing HC costs rise faster than inflation or tax revenues. Eventually that must stop. Math dictates it.
Goodbye and good riddance to the regulars here at Shexpat.

I have never encountered a more rude, cruel, reading challenged group of people in all of my life. Calling you all 'arrrseholes' would be an insult to a-holes.
yunnanexpat
LoopKicker
LoopKicker
 
Posts: 983
Joined: Fri Feb 26, 2010 11:21 pm

Re: do Expats get more vacation time than in jobs back home?

Postby yunnanexpat » Wed Jun 23, 2010 3:25 pm

bleepingbleeper wrote:
scamparella wrote:I think the US model of 2 weeks is Disgraceful - where is the life??

so do i! after reading about all you european people's vacation days, i'm full of envy.

we start out with 2wks per year, not including national holidays. after 5yrs tenure, it gets bumped to 3wks/yr...woopee! i believe senior mgmt starts at 3-4wks/yr, **but i rarely see them take any vacation days except maybe adding a few days to big holidays like Christmas**.


Oh, yeah. Great point. Thanks for bringing it up.

In the USA there are all of these 'unwritten rules'. One of them is that, often, Senior Mgmt gets all that holiday time but THEY ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO TAKE IT. They are 'needed' and must be available to work, so in practice and reality, as bb posted, they only take a few days around big holidays. SVP execs I know take holiday during Orthodox Christmas - the first week of the year, Jan 2 - Jan 10th or so. It is cheaper to fly, no one is getting anything done anyhow, and they won't be missed. Also C-levels and others cue on the CEO. What the boss does they do. So if the boss works 52 or 51 weeks a year and you have 6 weeks paid vacation, you take only one week and you roll it over or get compensated for it in your package.

I have read that some Europeans refer to the USA as a slave labour prison camp with slightly better food.

There is a great deal of truth to that statement.
Goodbye and good riddance to the regulars here at Shexpat.

I have never encountered a more rude, cruel, reading challenged group of people in all of my life. Calling you all 'arrrseholes' would be an insult to a-holes.
yunnanexpat
LoopKicker
LoopKicker
 
Posts: 983
Joined: Fri Feb 26, 2010 11:21 pm

Re: do Expats get more vacation time than in jobs back home?

Postby crivens200 » Wed Jun 23, 2010 3:44 pm

If you are French or Greek you get 5 weeks work a year but are allowed 25 sick days. If anyone encroaches on this you are allowed to strike. British Airways works to this model as well.
crivens200
Low Seater
Low Seater
 
Posts: 3005
Joined: Mon Nov 05, 2007 2:27 pm

Re: do Expats get more vacation time than in jobs back home?

Postby scamparella » Thu Jun 24, 2010 7:15 am

British Airways works to this model as well.

hahahaha :D

European benefits

It's not a 'benefit' it's a way of life. I've not been alive for centuries, but i guess it has never changed, and was there with us through the good times as well as the bad - hence we could say that it probably had no influence on productivity.
happy workers make productive workers :88:
User avatar
scamparella
Rocker
Rocker
 
Posts: 706
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2004 1:55 am

Re: do Expats get more vacation time than in jobs back home?

Postby bleepingbleeper » Mon Jun 28, 2010 2:22 pm

badger02 wrote:you have to work every sat to make up for home trips, WTF, I feel aggrieved for you. how long have you been doing that ?

If an expat needs to go home that often, then this is not the right place or time for them.


well, most of the expats in our china offices/factories are taiwanese. and only the employee comes over to work - their families don't want to live here, especially since factory locations are often in less-developed areas (cheap labor). try to reconcile that with thousands of expat employees and the "concession" is that they get a free trip home every 5wks or so (even though they have to work it off). it's not a good life (at least for the more family-oriented guys), but they gotta pay the bills...
bleepingbleeper
Veejay
Veejay
 
Posts: 2052
Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2009 5:24 pm


Return to Relocation & Moving

 


  • Related topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests