Can someone tell me why do the kids have to attend a way over priced international school? Are there local schools which expat kids can attend, in either Shanghai or Suzhou?
I’m considering an offer for the Shanghai and Suzhou area, with 2 school age kids I have read lots of the post regarding schools and programs and philosophies of education. While I am leaning towards the Suzhou area for work reasons the schools seem similar – over priced, I guess the shareholders of these fine intuitions know that they have the parents (employers) by the throat and can charge whatever unreasonable rates they wish.
I do find it paradoxical that so many parents make comments regarding the number of ‘Asians’ at the school their kids attend, like there is some magic ratio of expats vs. locals, that I don’t understand.
Ok now go ahead and flame me for making comments about the international schools…

Chinese local education is terrible which is why rich Chinese board their kids in private schools.

Chinese local education is in Chinese.

After you have been here a while you will see how "innocent" your question was...

Ranter - Thank you for you sincere reply, I am just amazed at what a rip off the international schools are, is there no solution other then spending my kids college money in their grade school years?

Chinese local education is terrible

Really?

Both of my kids did a couple of years at local schools in Shanghai before going to international schools...... it did them a world of good!

Whether your employer pays for schooling is often a deal breaker for expats. However there are a lot of families paying out of pocket at my kids school - just like paying for private school tuition in the US.
While the school prices are a little higher than some of the other Asian cities, the tuition at Shanghai American School is around the same as we paid in Germany at the Frankfurt International School. It's also similar to the tuition at the International School Beijing.

I appreciate this feed back, seems that there are a multiplicity of experiences, does anyone know which local schools either in Shanghai or Suzhou have English streams of education?
The cost of these schools seems to be driven by employers flipping the bill, I am familiar with some excellent international schools in New Delhi that are a mere fraction of cost. So it's no use for me to complain about it - I'm going to work around it, I don't give up and this is not a deal breaker.

Thank you - keep the info coming!!

Have you read the thread about foreign kids in local schools:

http://www.shanghaiexpat.com/MDForum-vi ... 9038.phtml

toolingdesign wrote:I appreciate this feed back, seems that there are a multiplicity of experiences, does anyone know which local schools either in Shanghai or Suzhou have English streams of education?
The cost of these schools seems to be driven by employers flipping the bill, I am familiar with some excellent international schools in New Delhi that are a mere fraction of cost. So it's no use for me to complain about it - I'm going to work around it, I don't give up and this is not a deal breaker.

Thank you - keep the info coming!!

How many schools in your country provide education primary in Chinese??

The so-called bilingual or English-language education here is crap, stay away from it.

Loopkicker - Thanks for the link it is interesting and I am still wanting to know more.

annodomini - we have many ...dozens of schools here in Portland which have ESL teachers for Spanish - Russian - Mandarin and many other languages... If I don't ask I won't know.. right?

My user name (as I'm always careful to state) gives away my "interest" in this matter but I would like to comment on the idea that International Schools are "a rip off" or that we have people "by the throat" in some fashion.

Most of the top tier international schools are very close to each other in terms of fees and their is a very simple set of reasons for this.

1) The single highest cost in what is essentially a service industry is the cost of staff. In this case teachers. Teachers at BISS and I'm sure at SAS and others are expats on expat "packages" which include housing, utilities and expat rates of pay. This is hugely expensive.
2) Building lease/rental/construction/development in prime areas.
3) High (rightly) expectations from parents in return for the fees in terms of facilities, "extras", classroom resources, teacher/pupil ratio, class size.
4) Fierce competition. Any school that took an "economical route" towards a UK normal class size of around 30 would find itself out of business very quickly here as parents are looking for a ratio of more like 20 at the most. We have a ratio, as my school is relatively new, of 11. No UK school could support this.

Of course I realise that some parents simply find the fee levels too high and I'm not suggesting otherwise. But I would assure the OP that no cartel exists and the prices are pretty much determined by the cost of doing business here with a large expat staff and the demands from parents for value for money.

Shanghai Fudan-Vanke Experimental School is a private Chinese school and about 25% of the student population are foreigners. There are 4 programs catering to the needs of local and foreign students.

The annual tuition fee for our latest and most expensive program, C-Program, based on a full core American and a full core Chinese curriculum, is RMB60,000. Class size for A, B & C programs are set at 20 students per class at Elementary School level. There are 18 and 12 C-Program third and first graders respectively.

I agree with Principal-BISSNx that the single highest cost in the service industry is the staff. Though we charge much lesser than all the international schools in Shanghai, we pay very competitive salary to the right staff.

Dear Principal – BISSNx –

What is the alternative to international schools?

No intent to offend you or anyone with my direct remarks, I know here where I live most public education cost tax payers about $4500 to $6500 in the USA, these are well manned schools with staff earning about $44000 to $60000 includes retirement, health insurance benefits, buildings and so forth.
Wages for teachers at expat schools are comparable too; therefore it takes 3 to 4 student tuitions to cover one staff member’s overhead at an international . And yes if I was paying $15k or more per child out of pocket I'd have serious expectations from the staff. Ok, enough of this detailed content - I just want to find a solution and work around and not butt heads with anyone.
I'm very sure you have your hands full with the expectations of the clients and it is not my intent to imply anything more then the fees are higher then I'd like to pay.

Best Regards

Toolingdesign,

Public education is "cheap" because someone else paid the taxes, and the government has economy of scale. Education is actually a very high-cost business, and so private schools (which most international schools here are) charge accordingly.

Think long term. You want to make sure your kids have a secondary education where they can apply to an university thats in ur home country. Dont think that the local schools have agreements with any universities overseas.. Might be wrong but thats why my princess is in an international school today

Its really sad for the international schools, their overall profits per year is just not even enough to add another computer for the next following year.

Anyway, assuming 700 students in a school @ usd 20,000 = usd 14 million. 700 divide by 25 per class that is about 28 classrooms. So thats about 40 teachers needed. 40 teachers @ average usd 36,000 = usd 1.5 million.

So what happens to the other usd 12.5 million EVERY year ? Yes i know, you need admin, building, water, wind, rain, blah,blah,blah. Anyway, if i own an international school, i would charge average usd 25,000 per year, why? get rich even faster than others. The religion in today's china - Get rich FAST as there might not be A TOMMORROW. Blame me for it.

The so-called bilingual or English-language education here is crap, stay away from it.

I don't agree with this. I know families who moved from an international school to a bilingual school and are very happy with the result.

In addition to the Shanghai Fudan-Vanke Experimental School, you could also consider SMIC. The tuition fee is similar.

If your objective is to move back after a couple years, check if the school is accredited in your country.

Access to local Chinese schools will be difficult if your children don't have a good Chinese level. Also, don't assume that public local means no tuition fee.

Has anyone heard of the Red, White, and Blue school? This forum is a huge help in my deciding which school my 11 yr old will attend next year upon relocating to Shanghai.

rex3343 wrote:Its really sad for the international schools, their overall profits per year is just not even enough to add another computer for the next following year.

Anyway, assuming 700 students in a school @ usd 20,000 = usd 14 million. 700 divide by 25 per class that is about 28 classrooms. So thats about 40 teachers needed. 40 teachers @ average usd 36,000 = usd 1.5 million.

So what happens to the other usd 12.5 million EVERY year ? Yes i know, you need admin, building, water, wind, rain, blah,blah,blah. Anyway, if i own an international school, i would charge average usd 25,000 per year, why? get rich even faster than others. The religion in today's china - Get rich FAST as there might not be A TOMMORROW. Blame me for it.

Not all of the International Schools in Shanghai are for profit.... I really doubt this poster would be able to figure his own budget let alone a large school's.

You seem to forget an expat teacher's salary is only part of the money that is paid to them. With benefits, it's over 100,000K per year.

SMIC school in Pudong is about US$11,500 per year, not including books, lunches or transportation. My 2 go to the English language school, I'm very pleased with them. They used to go to SAS and Concordia, and SMIC's quality of education is not far from those. They went 1 year to a local school with foreign division (SHSID), which was a complete disaster.

The key is the find a school that is the best fit for you. Everyone could say, X school is the best but it may not be best for your child (or your budget).

With that being said, I find it interesting Catur that you have changed your children's school 3 times. Why is that?

greeneyedlady wrote:You seem to forget an expat teacher's salary is only part of the money that is paid to them. With benefits, it's over 100,000K per year.

Wow...One hundred million? Clearly I'm in the wrong profession.

haha i noticed that one too
excellent...i love numerical pedantry, guess it's my background but that kind of thing really leaps out at me (and sends NASA probes millions of miles off course...)

greeneyedlady wrote:The key is the find a school that is the best fit for you. Everyone could say, X school is the best but it may not be best for your child (or your budget).

With that being said, I find it interesting Catur that you have changed your children's school 3 times. Why is that?

Since you have your nice avatar "back", I'll answer....
1. On year 9 of a 3 year gig, lots has happened.
2. Office moved from Hongqiao to Pudong, moved to be closer to office
3. Switched companies, new one doesn't pay school

btw, I didn't say SMIC is best, just that it's about as good as the others at around half price.
If the co. was still picking up the tab, they'd probably still be at Concordia.

januza wrote:Think long term. You want to make sure your kids have a secondary education where they can apply to an university thats in ur home country. Dont think that the local schools have agreements with any universities overseas.. Might be wrong but thats why my princess is in an international school today

Wow - are you married to a king?

coxaca wrote:

greeneyedlady wrote:You seem to forget an expat teacher's salary is only part of the money that is paid to them. With benefits, it's over 100,000K per year.

Wow...One hundred million? Clearly I'm in the wrong profession.

What are you talking about...

I wrote 100,000K which means 100,000.00 USD.

K = thousand

K = 1,000. So $100K means 100,000. You don't write out all the zeros, that's why the K is there. Otherwise there would be no point in putting a K there, you would just put a $.

I like to be formal when I write numbers....

But... methinks some posters are a little too anal here

greeneyedlady wrote:I like to be formal when I write numbers....

But... methinks some posters are a little too anal here

K=kilo=thousand, whether you're being formal or not.

you don't "HAVE" to......one look at the local school will change your mind....