My classes there are a literal handful of artists they like. Michael Jackson, Lady Gaga, Justin Bieber, Shania Twain, some K-Pop, and that's it. They don't like anything old, except 30 yo MJ tunes from 'Thriller', and they cannot stand almost all rock, jazz, rap, hip-hop, pop, non-Chinese techno, or any music from any other country, nation or culture, etc.

If it lacks Chinese lyrics, forget it.

Perhaps 2 to 6 students out of 65 like anything not Chinese.

Their likes are super tippy. Stray from what they like one iota, and their approval of the music plummets to near zero very quickly.

I know that SHG, like BEJ, has one of the few China rock scenes, so do people in Shanghai actually listen to anything other than diabetes-inducing Chinese language love songs?

You answered your own question in the second sentence.

If they can't sing it in the KTV then no interest

Yes, a song's got to have wo ai ni in it, otherwise they don't like it.

You're right, the Chinese love songs sound very stupid, so 1950's -- wait, no, make it 1650's.

My girls listen to Mumford&Sons, Eddie Vedder, The Verve and similar on a daily basis...

And they ai it...

It's an insular culture. Waddaya expect?

I long ago gave up trying to influence anybody's music preferences. On the other hand, I try to keep an open mind myself. When Chinese pop is playing, I try to listen for any scrap of musical originality. There's precious little to be found.

Note for anyone with a bit of music theory on board: one interesting thing in Chinese pop is the relative lack of perfect cadences. They exist, but the leading note is usually removed. Simple reason: there is no leading note in the Chinese pentatonic scale, hence no tritone interval, hence no harmonic tension/resolution in the Western sense.

This is the main reason it all sounds so bland to our ears. Chinese listeners OTOH probably pick up the extensive use of tritones in our music and find it highly discordant and unpleasant.

Yeah, they all seem to have nearly the same chord progressions. And the verses and choruses usually end with the same sickly sweet resolve, where the wo ai ni part goes. And I think the 1980s sounding guitar solos are all played by the same CCP approved guitarist, plugged into the same effects box for every song.

It kind of makes me laugh when you see some young guy dressed in his 'bwaddest bwad bwoy' hip hop bullsh*t with a huge set of headphones round his neck and you know that he's listening to S.H.E or Jolin.

I hate all that Canto-poof crap.

Yeah, I believe most of the Mandopop actually still originates from HK.

There are probably just one or two session guitarists there who lay down every single guitar solo you hear. Most likely they are Filipino or maybe Slovak.

Not Slash or Steve Vai?

Gay_Chevara wrote:Not Slash or Steve Vai?

Filipinos and Slovaks play just as well and are cheaper.

Bollywood music has some following here. Here on campus, I see students dancing to Indian music sometimes. And I've seen people dancing to Bollywood in a park in Changsha, which is probably a 3rd tier city.

Some people who are interested in specifically jazz or rock or folk may know some more less top-20 artists.

There's a band I know that lists the Yeah Yeah Yeahs as influences. But in terms of insular culture, Jpop, Kpop, and Bollywood music isn't exactly really popular over in North America unless you're Japanese, Korean or Indian and know where to find this music. So I don't find it weird a lot of Chinese people don't know anything past the top 20.

I hate almost every Chinese pop song, especially the ones with Wo Ai Ni in it. Then again even when it comes to English songs I hate almost every song with I Love You in it. I guess I just hate slow love songs. Regarding to why people listen to diabetic sugary pop...China is like always a few decades behind when it comes to music. I like this with rock, but regarding pop, it's like 90's all over again.

I hate to be stereotypical since I am Asian, but if a song is fun to play on DDR or sing KTV I will give it a second thought. No one goes to karaoke to sing not-dumb songs. If you gave people an option between Eleanor Rigby and I'm On A Boat, people will sing I'm On A Boat. When karaoking it is okay to like Britney Spears.

I hear what everyone is saying but you don't seem to understand that western music was not exactly easily accessible and still isn't. In the UK we have radio stations that play a wide range of music whereas here it's carefully selected and controlled. You can only like (and dislike) what you've heard. Even now music is censored, so many artists were not permitted to perform here.

^ I thought they already had internet access to everything that mattered and were well on par with the US? Must be nice to always be excused, all I'm saying. To be both superior and pitiable at the same time. Some of us have to live only one reality.

My experience may be limited but so far every Chinese musician I've heard can be obsoleted by a robot. Vocalists, on the other hand, can be obsoleted by an electric cheese grater and a drum machine with crash cymbal set to random.

Ok it's a little exagerrated but seriously, whenever I see even good musicians perform, about all I see is technical proficiency. No emotional connection, except perhaps a faint echo of the original lyricist. Not playing by ear, playing by numbers.

Listen to a Philippino jazz version of an old Rolling Stones cover and try to remember Mick is not dead yet so is probably not spinning in his grave yet, but would if he could. Music to soothe the rich foreign lounge lizard. At least Philippino covers are human, if entirely devoid of testosterone.

No, I tell a lie. Ginger, dynamite in a small package, at Cotton Club could belt out a Joplin number when she wanted, then she seemed to mellow. I wonder how she "got it".

I guess China is still waiting for its Elvis. Maybe mama made him go to engineering school.

Now, African American culture, handed lemons and turned the world with blue notes.

Shinbone wrote:^ I thought they already had internet access to everything that mattered and were well on par with the US? Must be nice to always be excused, all I'm saying. To be both superior and pitiable at the same time. Some of us have to live only one reality.

I think it's not quite the same thing to log on to the internet and try to explore music that way compared to just having it on the tv and radio like we do in the west. Never mind the Chinese, I myself have realised I am so out of touch with the latest bands in the UK / US now I am living in China. Now and then I do try to stream BBC radio one and hear some new stuff, but it's quite an effort.

Is the language not also an issue. How many people in England spend time on the internet looking for Chinese, Indian or other non-English music to enjoy? Not a lot!

tylerdurden wrote:Note for anyone with a bit of music theory on board: one interesting thing in Chinese pop is the relative lack of perfect cadences. They exist, but the leading note is usually removed. Simple reason: there is no leading note in the Chinese pentatonic scale, hence no tritone interval, hence no harmonic tension/resolution in the Western sense.

This is the main reason it all sounds so bland to our ears. Chinese listeners OTOH probably pick up the extensive use of tritones in our music and find it highly discordant and unpleasant.

Why do they have modern pop music that is in the western pentatonic scale when they have thousands of years of music in the CPS? Many songs begin in CPS, perhaps with traditional instruments as an intro, then they segue to modern western instruments, arrangements, scale and song structure.

Why not just have modern song structure with the CPS? Or modern instruments with the CPS and traditional song structure?

If you listen carefully to modern Chinese/HK pop you can certainly hear non-PS notes, modulations and other Western stigmata. But they are usually fairly "weak".

That sickening moment when the faggy male singer goes "wo aiiiii niiiii", for instance: usually the instruments all drop out and he sings it alone. "aiiii" is on the supertonic and "niiii" on the tonic, which in Western music would imply a dominant seventh chord resolving to the tonic, ie a perfect cadence.

In Western music, you would hear all the notes of those chords. The dominant seventh chord (G-B-D-F in the key of C) contains a tritone in the B-F interval. This is jarring to the ears of citizens of the Harmonious Society and therefore is almost always absent from the musical arrangement in Mandopop. That's why the music drops out when Muggins belts out the last cringeworthy notes of his ditty.

I ain't no music expert, but from what I gather, I'd say that Indian classical music is "much better developed and far more advanced" than Chinese music. Yes, I'm talking about Indian classical, NOT the Bollywood stuff. For starters, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_classical_music

And here's the Chinese version: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Music_of_China

The Chinese seem to be pretty good at visual art though.

Shinbone wrote:I guess China is still waiting for its Elvis. Maybe mama made him go to engineering school.

Shinbone wrote:Now, African American culture, handed lemons and turned the world with blue notes.

Jesus, you have a wonderful facility for turning a phrase, Shinbone. I love reading your stuff, always.

I don't think internet access puts them firmly on the hook though. With non-Asian music, most of them wouldn't know where to begin.

I have two male students who really like Radiohead. Had a female student who was into Dylan and Marley. Had a male student who adored Elvis Presley! All 22 years old. But this is very unusual in my experience. Michael Jackson, Westlife, Linkin Park, Avril Lavigne are all commonly cited. Also, in the early 90's, Metallica was a huge influence for some of the Beijing rock musicians. Last year, I saw a young Chinese male wearing a Joe Strummer t-shirt. I almost fell over.

Finally, I must confess a soft spot for Jian Dan Ai (and Jay Zhou generally), though the lyrics are truly awful.

^ Thanks Will.

I just hope that Chinese would realize they need an Elvis for this time, not an Elvis impersonator. (Not holding my breath). Might be a while.

tylerdurden wrote:Yeah, I believe most of the Mandopop actually still originates from HK.

There are probably just one or two session guitarists there who lay down every single guitar solo you hear. Most likely they are Filipino or maybe Slovak.

True.

Basically, what you hear as the Chinese pop songs are basically produced by these circles:
Beijing circle (for majority of the Mainland pops),
Hong Kong circle
Taiwan circle

In each circle there is a small group of musicians who is composing/ arranging/ recording/ playing.
so that's why you always hear the same style versus chorus bridges solos and so on.

please put justin bieber and lady gaga away

Actually, more and more young people are broadening their musical taste. I like rock music a lot, and metal music especially. Many of my Chinese friends are also rock/metal fans, and after going to concerts and festivals I have met a lot more. Many of them know a lot about foreign bands and music scene, several of my friends even know lots of bands from my small country. Also, it´s not only Chinese people listening to foreign bands, but there are already loads of great and creative Chinese rock/metal bands with their own style (though most of course have very clear influences from foreign bands, which is natural).

A good source of underground music information in China, in English: http://www.rockinchina.com/w/Main_Page

Just my 5 jiao.

Arto wrote:Many of my Chinese friends are also rock/metal fans

I wonder why.

There's only one thing faggier than an Asian boy band...



...and that's a Western metal band...

tylerdurden wrote:

Arto wrote:Many of my Chinese friends are also rock/metal fans

I wonder why.

There's only one thing faggier than an Asian boy band...



...and that's a Western metal band...

Well, I was not talking about boy bands, and the second picture you posted seems like a glam rock band, not a metal band. But yeah, sure looks gay as hell.

yunnanexpat wrote: do people in Shanghai actually listen to anything other than diabetes-inducing Chinese language love songs?

When I first moved to Southeast Asia the company put me up in a hotel which I renamed the Dy Nasty. There was piped Chinese or generic Asian, if there is such a thing, muzac in all the halls. It drove me crazy, kept me awake because it was turned up to be just audible in the rooms. I stuffed tissue in my ears I tried to sleep with my head sandwiched between two pillows. I left after a week and moved into the first apartment I looked at just to escape that auditory purgatory.

tylerdurden wrote:
Note for anyone with a bit of music theory on board: one interesting thing in Chinese pop is the relative lack of perfect cadences. They exist, but the leading note is usually removed. Simple reason: there is no leading note in the Chinese pentatonic scale, hence no tritone interval, hence no harmonic tension/resolution in the Western sense.

This is the main reason it all sounds so bland to our ears. Chinese listeners OTOH probably pick up the extensive use of tritones in our music and find it highly discordant and unpleasant.

If I understand what you wrote, enough to say (much) Chinese painting is comparable, especially the part that states ..."no harmonic tension/resolution in the Western sense." My perception of most modern Chinese art is that it is rather bland to my eyes, just like their pop music to my ears. There is a lack of thematic interest, too predictable a palette and the use of monochrome, or sets of analogous colours, that makes the work sterile and visually immature. Some Chinese painters have a type of well- crafted technique so they can make good replica of a classic genre. I study it just to pull apart mentally the differences and understand each on it's own terms.

There is some Chinese music that sound awfully like cats being drawn and quartered but then sometimes I hear Chinese people engaged in a conversation that has the same distressing tone and pitch.

I also agree with Will Shatter about Shinbone's interesting posts. You have the distinction of not posting too much but making such worthwhile reading when you do.
That is a classic line Shine
"Now, African American culture, handed lemons and turned the world with blue notes."

Arto wrote:Well, I was not talking about boy bands, and the second picture you posted seems like a glam rock band, not a metal band. But yeah, sure looks gay as hell.

No, that was definitely a metal band.

This is what a glam rock band looks like:



Look, and learn.

They love Lady Gaga blarring as their phone ring tone