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Do you want Obama re-elected in 2012?

Questions and Answers about living in Shanghai here.

Do you want Obama re-elected in 2012?

YES
44
52%
NO
40
48%
 
Total votes : 84

Re: Do you want Obama re-elected in 2012?

Postby rickettyrabbit » Mon Jan 30, 2012 11:19 am

btravers33 wrote:Rabbit,

Your point is fair, but I think this may be a semantics issue. Sure, you can come up with examples of productive legislation, but looking at the landscape now, it seems that the unproductive legislation greatly outweighs the productive legislation. My point is that much of the legislation out there is very reactionary in an effort to appease the masses and get re-elected. One big example that comes to mind is SOX. Yes, they had to do something, but what they came up with was an albatross that became a huge burden to business and having experience with it, don't see how it really solves anything other than from putting more money in the pockets of the Big 4 accounting firms.

So yes, while some form of government is necessary for situations like those you pointed out, we certainly could decrease the size of the government with little consequence. Department of Homeland Security, in my opinion, can certainly be greatly reduced as they are way too big and have too much power. Security threats or enemies, like viruses, will always adapt and evolve. This department is way too big and bureaucratic to deal with them effectively.

Additionally, little pieces of legislation that are a result of some lower-level politicians trying to look like they are accomplishing something are also very burdensome, for example:

HR 3791, which would require certain American companies to undergo an additional level of reporting bureaucracy in how much they pay women and minorities;

HR 3784, which would impose a windfall profits tax on oil, natural gas, and related products production;

HR 3806, a bill submitted for ending “the practice of including more than one subject in a single bill…

While some of the above may be well-intentioned, i just don't see how they will actually solve anything. All they do is hamper productivity.

To use your example about water, yes, we need it for sure, but right now, we are at flood levels in regard to our government. So let's get it back to somewhere in between flood levels and drought.


I think you make a persuasive argument for smarter government, not a blanket "less".

If there's a drive for less government, I'm fairly sure that much of the legislation that gets repealed will be bought and paid for by corporate interests. As with Glass-Steagal?
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Re: Do you want Obama re-elected in 2012?

Postby btravers33 » Mon Jan 30, 2012 11:26 am

^ Fair enough, less stupid government
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Re: Do you want Obama re-elected in 2012?

Postby rickettyrabbit » Mon Jan 30, 2012 11:36 am

Good. I'm down with that. And I think it would actually result in less government simply because there isn't enough smart government to go around.
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Re: Do you want Obama re-elected in 2012?

Postby btravers33 » Mon Jan 30, 2012 11:40 am

^ Exactly!
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Re: Do you want Obama re-elected in 2012?

Postby wolfyx » Mon Jan 30, 2012 11:43 am

I agree with rickettyrabbit that the free market needs regulations in order to avoid it spinning out of control. The main "value" that drives the capitalism is greed. This pushes people to be competitive, to work hard and to create richness, but also to ignore all other human values when they follow their ultimate goal of "getting rich". Wild capitalism (unregulated) creates inequality which, if unchecked, will lead to social unrest. The government is the entity that is supposed to protect the interests of the people, to ensure that the wealth is fairly distributed, while still allowing enough freedom to the markets, allowing them to create economic growth. Its a very fragile balance.

I strongly agree with btravers33 statement that:
"The problem with all politicians, not just Obama, is that they rarely ever 'solve' the problem, they just kick the can down the road in order to preserve their chance of re-election and appease the mostly short-sighted population."
I think that the short sighted measures that all democratic governments have to take in order to ensure their re-election are very counter-productive. Dictatorship is even a worse solution because the central power needs some kind of accountability. There are very few leaders capable of putting the general interest ahead of their personal well being.

So what is the solution? What kind of political system can handle, long term, the problems that the world faces today? Do you think a visionary leader (that Obama proved not to be) is enough to produce real significant change? Or do we need the wake up call of a global catastrophe, equivalent to what the world wars were, in order to evolve?
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Re: Do you want Obama re-elected in 2012?

Postby btravers33 » Mon Jan 30, 2012 11:55 am

Wolfyx poses an excellent question. My thought is that unfortunately I think we need some sort of catastrophe to serve as a 'correction'. From my perspective everything has grown so far out of control that we need an event, economic or otherwise, to restore the balance. Like a fire purging a forest that has grown out of control and can no longer sustain itself (to paraphrase Ra's Al Ghul). It sucks that it has come to this....
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Re: Do you want Obama re-elected in 2012?

Postby rickettyrabbit » Mon Jan 30, 2012 11:59 am

^ I'm not sure that Wolfy's knock against Obama as NOT being visionary is fair. I think he's visionary but not effective. He hasn't been able to capture the nation's imagination with his vision. There are all kinds of reasons for that, many of them not his fault.

I think he connected very well with his natural constituency, captured their imagination and won their confidence. But he's been unable to reach across the political divide to capture any significant slice of the Republican party, as Reagan did from the other side of that divide by capturing many "Reagan Democrats". I think his rhetoric is a little too cerebral, not evangelical enough, and too liberal for today's US.

And perhaps the country is so polarized that no Democrat or Republican will be able to reach across the divide until something big changes. Many in the US are caught in a time warp, like the 50 year old guy who thinks he's still 21. Most don't understand how the world has changed, and many think they can "go home again". That dream dies hard - very hard.
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Re: Do you want Obama re-elected in 2012?

Postby sambista » Mon Jan 30, 2012 1:58 pm

rickettyrabbit wrote:^ I'm not sure that Wolfy's knock against Obama as NOT being visionary is fair. I think he's visionary but not effective. He hasn't been able to capture the nation's imagination with his vision. There are all kinds of reasons for that, many of them not his fault.

I think he connected very well with his natural constituency, captured their imagination and won their confidence. But he's been unable to reach across the political divide to capture any significant slice of the Republican party, as Reagan did from the other side of that divide by capturing many "Reagan Democrats". I think his rhetoric is a little too cerebral, not evangelical enough, and too liberal for today's US.

And perhaps the country is so polarized that no Democrat or Republican will be able to reach across the divide until something big changes. Many in the US are caught in a time warp, like the 50 year old guy who thinks he's still 21. Most don't understand how the world has changed, and many think they can "go home again". That dream dies hard - very hard.


how can you be effective when the republicans are hellbent on fighting you at every turn, and labeling you a socialist to boot?

i'll tell you whose fault it is: the american public. too apathetic to pay attention, and too stupid to understand what's going on (giving their elected officials carte blanche to play whatever games they choose and not in the interest of their constituents). hell, anyone who has seen jay leno's "jaywalking" segments knows how many americans on the street don't know their history or current events - not even schoolteachers. the last one i watched, immigrants who'd just earned their citizenship or were studying for it knew more! leno joked to the clueless americans who couldn't answer who the vice president of our country was that they should be escorted to the border immediately.

we get exactly what we deserve, i'm sad to say.

btw, according to some of the latest accounts, old mitt is paying only 13 percent, not 15 percent.
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Re: Do you want Obama re-elected in 2012?

Postby Stark » Mon Jan 30, 2012 2:47 pm

Agreed, Sambista. The problem is that the American public is just plain ignorant, and the worst part of it is that they THINK they are well informed. The way Faux News and charlatans like Glenn Beck operate is that they know that Americans simply do not know very much, and if they dress it up with pseudo-intellectual trappings (ooo, look a blackboard) then they'll simply swallow whatever tripe is fed to them.

But unfortunately it goes beyond just the average American. I mean, I was at the Camel for trivia this past week and BY FAR the hardest category were the basic geography / history things that I thought everyone learned at some point. In my own group for the question of 'what 5 countries developed nuclear weapons first, and the year they did' I had people arguing with me that China had nuclear weapons, claiming that Germany had developed atomic weapons during WW2. And the answer sheet we corrected had USA, Russia, Germany and Japan as the five countries who first set off an atomic bomb. Yikes. (To be fair I messed up the years even though I got the countries right). But these are smart, educated people who enjoy trivia enough to go to a trivia night - and they think Nazi Germany had the atomic bomb. AHHHHHHH!
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Re: Do you want Obama re-elected in 2012?

Postby rickettyrabbit » Tue Jan 31, 2012 3:03 am

sambista wrote:
rickettyrabbit wrote:^ I'm not sure that Wolfy's knock against Obama as NOT being visionary is fair. I think he's visionary but not effective. He hasn't been able to capture the nation's imagination with his vision. There are all kinds of reasons for that, many of them not his fault.

I think he connected very well with his natural constituency, captured their imagination and won their confidence. But he's been unable to reach across the political divide to capture any significant slice of the Republican party, as Reagan did from the other side of that divide by capturing many "Reagan Democrats". I think his rhetoric is a little too cerebral, not evangelical enough, and too liberal for today's US.

And perhaps the country is so polarized that no Democrat or Republican will be able to reach across the divide until something big changes. Many in the US are caught in a time warp, like the 50 year old guy who thinks he's still 21. Most don't understand how the world has changed, and many think they can "go home again". That dream dies hard - very hard.


how can you be effective when the republicans are hellbent on fighting you at every turn, and labeling you a socialist to boot?

i'll tell you whose fault it is: the american public. too apathetic to pay attention, and too stupid to understand what's going on (giving their elected officials carte blanche to play whatever games they choose and not in the interest of their constituents). hell, anyone who has seen jay leno's "jaywalking" segments knows how many americans on the street don't know their history or current events - not even schoolteachers. the last one i watched, immigrants who'd just earned their citizenship or were studying for it knew more! leno joked to the clueless americans who couldn't answer who the vice president of our country was that they should be escorted to the border immediately.


I think we agree. Regardless of the reasons, though, he hasn't been effective.

This is what most Americans don't understand yet . . .

Made in the World
By THOMAS L. FRIEDMAN
Published: January 28, 2012

THE Associated Press reported last week that Fidel Castro, the former president of Cuba, wrote an opinion piece on a Cuban Web site, following a Republican Party presidential candidates’ debate in Florida, in which he argued that the “selection of a Republican candidate for the presidency of this globalized and expansive empire is — and I mean this seriously — the greatest competition of idiocy and ignorance that has ever been.”

When Marxists are complaining that your party’s candidates are disconnected from today’s global realities, it’s generally not a good sign. But they’re not alone.

There is today an enormous gap between the way many C.E.O.s in America — not Wall Street-types, but the people who lead premier companies that make things and create real jobs — look at the world and how the average congressmen, senator or president looks at the world. They are literally looking at two different worlds — and this applies to both parties.

Consider the meeting that this paper reported on from last February between President Obama and the Apple co-founder Steve Jobs, who died in October. The president, understandably, asked Jobs why almost all of the 70 million iPhones, 30 million iPads and 59 million other products Apple sold last year were made overseas. Obama inquired, couldn’t that work come back home? “Those jobs aren’t coming back,” Jobs replied.

Politicians see the world as blocs of voters living in specific geographies — and they see their job as maximizing the economic benefits for the voters in their geography. Many C.E.O.’s, though, increasingly see the world as a place where their products can be made anywhere through global supply chains (often assembled with nonunion-protected labor) and sold everywhere.

These C.E.O.s rarely talk about “outsourcing” these days. Their world is now so integrated that there is no “out” and no “in” anymore. In their businesses, every product and many services now are imagined, designed, marketed and built through global supply chains that seek to access the best quality talent at the lowest cost, wherever it exists. They see more and more of their products today as “Made in the World” not “Made in America.” Therein lies the tension. So many of “our” companies actually see themselves now as citizens of the world. But Obama is president of the United States.

Victor Fung, the chairman of Li & Fung, one of Hong Kong’s oldest textile manufacturers, remarked to me last year that for many years his company operated on the rule: “You sourced in Asia, and you sold in America and Europe.” Now, said Fung, the rule is: “ ‘Source everywhere, manufacture everywhere, sell everywhere.’ The whole notion of an ‘export’ is really disappearing.”

Mike Splinter, the C.E.O. of Applied Materials, has put it to me this way: “Outsourcing was 10 years ago, where you’d say, ‘Let’s send some software generation overseas.’ This is not the outsourcing we’re doing today. This is just where I am going to get something done. Now you say, ‘Hey, half my Ph.D.’s in my R-and-D department would rather live in Singapore, Taiwan or China because their hometown is there and they can go there and still work for my company.’ This is the next evolution.” He has many more choices.

Added Michael Dell, founder of Dell Inc.: “I always remind people that 96 percent of our potential new customers today live outside of America.” That’s the rest of the world. And if companies like Dell want to sell to them, he added, it needs to design and manufacture some parts of its products in their countries.

This is the world we are living in. It is not going away. But America can thrive in this world, explained Yossi Sheffi, the M.I.T. logistics expert, if it empowers “as many of our workers as possible to participate” in different links of these global supply chains — either imagining products, designing products, marketing products, orchestrating the supply chain for products, manufacturing high-end products and retailing products. If we get our share, we’ll do fine.

And here’s the good news: We have a huge natural advantage to compete in this kind of world, if we just get our act together.

In a world where the biggest returns go to those who imagine and design a product, there is no higher imagination-enabling society than America. In a world where talent is the most important competitive advantage, there is no country that historically welcomed talented immigrants more than America. In a world in which protection for intellectual property and secure capital markets is highly prized by innovators and investors alike, there is no country safer than America. In a world in which the returns on innovation are staggering, our government funding of bioscience, new technology and clean energy is a great advantage. In a world where logistics will be the source of a huge number of middle-class jobs, we have FedEx and U.P.S.

If only — if only — we could come together on a national strategy to enhance and expand all of our natural advantages: more immigration, most post-secondary education, better infrastructure, more government research, smart incentives for spurring millions of start-ups — and a long-term plan to really fix our long-term debt problems — nobody could touch us. We’re that close.


http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/29/opini ... .html?_r=2

Meanwhile, the Republicans, Democrats, and especially the Tea Baggers have pulled their wagons into a circle and have commenced firing inwards.
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Re: Do you want Obama re-elected in 2012?

Postby sambista » Tue Jan 31, 2012 6:14 am

rickettyrabbit wrote:Meanwhile, the Republicans, Democrats, and especially the Tea Baggers have pulled their wagons into a circle and have commenced firing inwards.


interesting read, and well put.
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Re: Do you want Obama re-elected in 2012?

Postby johnny_tropicana » Tue Jan 31, 2012 6:29 am

wolfyx wrote:
No, Johnny, I don't have to demonstrate you anything. You, on the other hand you have to demonstrate your last statement. You never challenged me in any of my post and you didn't argue against my main post on this forum, where I expose my ideas (nation-states-t136943.html). All you do is denigrate me in other posts. I suppose that you have different ideas then mine. I invite you to discuss them. I consider that you attacking me behind my back demonstrates both cowardliness and low class.

Judging from this particular thread, I can understand why you want to avoid an up front debate. You have difficulties following a conversation. You never challenge the facts that Stark and sambista are presenting. You have your own discourse that you blabber and you seam to live in your own little world. You sound very much like a republican politician.

What bothers me is when you dare to put the 320 millions Americans behind you, in your little discourse here, and the whole SHEX community when you formulate your personal attacks against me. Where do you get this legitimacy from? You are just a rich old man that, as Stark says, "doesn't seem to have the firmest grasp on reality". Life is not as easy as it seams Johnny. Being old does not give you the right to ignore logic. If you want to speak in the name of the American people you have to win their vote and if you want to attack me you have to challenge my ideas with arguments.


I have not the least idea where to begin using your own words against you so I will not.
Your grasp of how America works, how business, either Chinese, or American, is on par
with the likes of ChinaBrah, qwer, and hlbb.
You speak how I submarine you at every opportunity, yet you as a noob to these very forums
have been doing exactly that since your arrival. I have no use for you. Even if I fire my janitor.
This "rich old man" got there by hard work. No one held my hand or gave me a thing.
I took NOTHING from anyone. And yet I have found year after year, regardless who was running
my country, that their expectations of my contribution to THEIR failing programs was ever
increasing. I am not setting the SHEX community against you, your own words and ignorance are.
Now go back to teaching English.
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Re: Do you want Obama re-elected in 2012?

Postby wolfyx » Tue Jan 31, 2012 10:08 am

johnny_tropicana wrote:I have not the least idea where to begin using your own words against you so I will not.
Your grasp of how America works, how business, either Chinese, or American, is on par
with the likes of ChinaBrah, qwer, and hlbb.
You speak how I submarine you at every opportunity, yet you as a noob to these very forums
have been doing exactly that since your arrival. I have no use for you. Even if I fire my janitor.
This "rich old man" got there by hard work. No one held my hand or gave me a thing.
I took NOTHING from anyone. And yet I have found year after year, regardless who was running
my country, that their expectations of my contribution to THEIR failing programs was ever
increasing. I am not setting the SHEX community against you, your own words and ignorance are.
Now go back to teaching English.


I know that I should be wiser and just ignore you but I can not. Old, senile, self righteous dinosaurs like you annoy the hell out of me whenever I see them in politics or business. So I will not spare you.

As expected you can not hold an argument. You can not challenge ideas. You simply don't have the intellectual capacity or the coherence necessary to do it. I think that you are worse then your three "idols" (ChinaBrah, qwer, and hlbb) because they, at least, are either trolls or young guys having fun online. You, on the other hand, you consider yourself the father of us all but you are incapable to putting two logical arguments one after another.

I don't have any use for you either, Johnny. It is said that we should respect our elders for their wisdom. You are not wise. You are just a clown of a man. You can go have a heart attack right now for all I care.

You fail on all levels when you try to profile me. I will not go teach English first of all because my competence is a lot higher then that and second because English is neither my first nor my second language.

You can not set the community against me because you are not the authority in this community. Your incredible display of ignorance and confidence is outrageous.
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Re: Do you want Obama re-elected in 2012?

Postby btravers33 » Tue Jan 31, 2012 10:24 am

I am new to posting on this forum, but have been reading and observing for some time. Contrary to popular opinion, I think ChinaBrah is brilliant. Look at the legend he built for himself in a relatively short amount of time. Everyone still talks about him to this day.
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Re: Do you want Obama re-elected in 2012?

Postby btb » Tue Jan 31, 2012 10:32 am

Made in the World
By THOMAS L. FRIEDMAN
Published: January 28, 2012


If only — if only — we could come together on a national strategy to enhance and expand all of our natural advantages: more immigration, most post-secondary education, better infrastructure, more government research, smart incentives for spurring millions of start-ups — and a long-term plan to really fix our long-term debt problems — nobody could touch us. We’re that close.


http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/29/opini ... .html?_r=2


another politician hope and dope talk.

haha..
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Re: Do you want Obama re-elected in 2012?

Postby btb » Thu Feb 09, 2012 2:33 pm

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/09/busin ... ml?_r=1&hp


After months of painstaking talks, government authorities and five of the nation’s biggest banks have agreed to a $26 billion settlement that could provide relief to nearly two million current and former American homeowners harmed by the bursting of the housing bubble, state and federal officials said. It is part of a broad national settlement aimed at halting the housing market’s downward slide and holding the banks accountable for foreclosure abuses.




lulz


Despite the billions earmarked in the accord, the aid will help a relatively small portion of the millions of borrowers who are delinquent and facing foreclosure. The success could depend in part on how effectively the program is carried out because earlier efforts by Washington aimed at troubled borrowers helped far fewer than had been expected.



haha

The five mortgage servicers in the settlement — Bank of America, JPMorgan Chase, Wells Fargo, Citigroup and Ally Financial — have largely set aside reserves for the expected cost of the accord and investors are likely to cheer its announcement because it removes one more legal worry for the industry, analysts said.


haha


Several billion dollars would cover the direct cash payments to foreclosure victims and provide money for states’ attorneys general to services like mortgage counseling and future investigations into mortgage fraud.


lulz
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Re: Do you want Obama re-elected in 2012?

Postby johnny_tropicana » Fri Feb 10, 2012 3:57 am

btravers33 wrote:I am new to posting on this forum, but have been reading and observing for some time. Contrary to popular opinion, I think ChinaBrah is brilliant. Look at the legend he built for himself in a relatively short amount of time. Everyone still talks about him to this day.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Dude, come on, I am just recovering from pneumonia, and I think I just broke a lung.
Glad to know your new user name though 'Brah
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Re: Do you want Obama re-elected in 2012?

Postby rickettyrabbit » Fri Feb 10, 2012 4:43 am

btb wrote:
Made in the World
By THOMAS L. FRIEDMAN
Published: January 28, 2012


If only — if only — we could come together on a national strategy to enhance and expand all of our natural advantages: more immigration, most post-secondary education, better infrastructure, more government research, smart incentives for spurring millions of start-ups — and a long-term plan to really fix our long-term debt problems — nobody could touch us. We’re that close.


http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/29/opini ... .html?_r=2


another politician hope and dope talk.

haha..


Friedman is just trying to wake up Americans. I read his "That used to be us . . " (thanks again, brun0) and thought it was pitched at people who have been fed a steady diet of parochial US news. Noble try . . . I doubt it will wake many up. Too many USians are caught in a self-paralyzing world view - "America is the greatest, smartest, bestest, always was and always will be".

Thinking you are "best" prevents most from getting "better".

btravers33 wrote:I am new to posting on this forum, but have been reading and observing for some time. Contrary to popular opinion, I think ChinaBrah is brilliant. Look at the legend he built for himself in a relatively short amount of time. Everyone still talks about him to this day.


Yes, frequent mentions of one's name make one brilliant. He's mentioned on Shexpat almost as much as "dump on the sidewalk", which is equally deserving of our admiration. :roll:
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Re: Do you want Obama re-elected in 2012?

Postby btb » Fri Feb 10, 2012 10:39 am

rickettyrabbit wrote:
btb wrote:
Made in the World
By THOMAS L. FRIEDMAN
Published: January 28, 2012


If only — if only — we could come together on a national strategy to enhance and expand all of our natural advantages: more immigration, most post-secondary education, better infrastructure, more government research, smart incentives for spurring millions of start-ups — and a long-term plan to really fix our long-term debt problems — nobody could touch us. We’re that close.


http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/29/opini ... .html?_r=2


another politician hope and dope talk.

haha..


Friedman is just trying to wake up Americans. I read his "That used to be us . . " (thanks again, brun0) and thought it was pitched at people who have been fed a steady diet of parochial US news. Noble try . . . I doubt it will wake many up. Too many USians are caught in a self-paralyzing world view - "America is the greatest, smartest, bestest, always was and always will be".

Thinking you are "best" prevents most from getting "better".


No he is not.

Same old
more education , more infrastructure spending , more startup

That has nothing to do with structural problem facing the country.

Lets take infrastrucutre. less people needed before and stuff manufactured will be outside usa. ROI is way lower than 1930's

Lets take more education and innovation, usa find 10 steve jobs what will that do to employment growth in usa ??
most of the stuff manufactured will be outside usa
most of the mobile apps development will be outside usa.




He touting the same old things without talking structural problem cause that's very incontinent.

Just like repuliCONS tout tax cuts as solution to all problems.



"World is flat", so if you are on mountain u will be coming down.

and now says "nobody could touch us. We’re that close" ... to the ground ???

:lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Do you want Obama re-elected in 2012?

Postby RobinA » Fri Feb 10, 2012 2:21 pm

At first I thought I want to say NO!

On second thought, it doesn't make a big difference which president, but big financial org behind him/her.

Democracy is the biggest joke.
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Re: Do you want Obama re-elected in 2012?

Postby carlstar » Fri Feb 10, 2012 3:10 pm

yeah Politics in usa is a bit of a joke. Two party system based on cults of personality. Might as well just copy the chinese system, at least they don't have to waste money on elections.
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Re: Do you want Obama re-elected in 2012?

Postby tiaowuu » Sat Feb 11, 2012 1:08 am

Obama can suck the devils thorned penis in hell.
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Re: Do you want Obama re-elected in 2012?

Postby rickettyrabbit » Sat Feb 11, 2012 1:37 am

btb wrote:
rickettyrabbit wrote:
btb wrote:
Made in the World
By THOMAS L. FRIEDMAN
Published: January 28, 2012


If only — if only — we could come together on a national strategy to enhance and expand all of our natural advantages: more immigration, most post-secondary education, better infrastructure, more government research, smart incentives for spurring millions of start-ups — and a long-term plan to really fix our long-term debt problems — nobody could touch us. We’re that close.


http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/29/opini ... .html?_r=2


another politician hope and dope talk.

haha..


Friedman is just trying to wake up Americans. I read his "That used to be us . . " (thanks again, brun0) and thought it was pitched at people who have been fed a steady diet of parochial US news. Noble try . . . I doubt it will wake many up. Too many USians are caught in a self-paralyzing world view - "America is the greatest, smartest, bestest, always was and always will be".

Thinking you are "best" prevents most from getting "better".


No he is not.

Same old
more education , more infrastructure spending , more startup

That has nothing to do with structural problem facing the country.

Lets take infrastrucutre. less people needed before and stuff manufactured will be outside usa. ROI is way lower than 1930's

Lets take more education and innovation, usa find 10 steve jobs what will that do to employment growth in usa ??
most of the stuff manufactured will be outside usa
most of the mobile apps development will be outside usa.




He touting the same old things without talking structural problem cause that's very incontinent.

Just like repuliCONS tout tax cuts as solution to all problems.



"World is flat", so if you are on mountain u will be coming down.

and now says "nobody could touch us. We’re that close" ... to the ground ???

:lol: :lol: :lol:


I didn't say he had good solutions . . . but that's what I think he's trying to do.
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Re: Do you want Obama re-elected in 2012?

Postby caisghost » Sun Feb 12, 2012 7:26 pm

Sorry for the delay; I've been out of the country.

Stark wrote:

No, no, no, NO! I'm sorry you have no understanding of internal Democratic party politics. Try picking up Politico or reading Ezra Klein once in a while instead of repeating what you see on CNN.

I'm not so sure. I, like a lot of pundits, think he really lost Florida with Elian Gonzalez because it alienated the Cuban-American voters. Again, a stellar moment in Dems alienating their base because they take it for granted. I'm not sure exactly how they voted, but IIRC, many switched to Bush, some stayed home. And again, the Democrats using the same old tired strategies that are responsible for allowing the the country to move to the right instead of stealing from the GOP playbook and getting meaningful wins.



The Republicans ran pro-Nader ads so that liberals would be siphoned off to vote Green party (a party that is more left on the spectrum than both parties, certainly, but far, far closer in philosophy to Democrats than Republicans).


I don't remember reading that, but I was in Israel at the time. But that sounds like something they would do.

That said, just because you do something doesn't mean you caused it. The Politico article noted the fall-off happened in June -- long before the intense ad cycle.

Ezra Klein. Please. He was in high school during the 2000 election.


So? He's an excellent political analyst now.
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Re: Do you want Obama re-elected in 2012?

Postby ajgreene » Sun Feb 12, 2012 9:31 pm

wolfyx wrote:
So what is the solution? What kind of political system can handle, long term, the problems that the world faces today? Do you think a visionary leader (that Obama proved not to be) is enough to produce real significant change? Or do we need the wake up call of a global catastrophe, equivalent to what the world wars were, in order to evolve?


Well said.
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Re: Do you want Obama re-elected in 2012?

Postby btb » Mon Feb 13, 2012 11:57 am

National Mortgage Settlement: Some States Using Mortgage Deal Funds To Close Budget Gaps


Two states have already announced that they won't be using all of their share of the $25 billion allocated in Thursday's historic foreclosure settlement to pay its intended recipients -- the homeowners and borrowers who saw the housing market collapse beneath their feet.

Instead, in some areas, a share of those dollars is likely to be diverted to state budgets, in a bid to offset some of the massive deficits that states have been struggling with since the economic downturn, according to reports.

In Wisconsin, Governor Scott Walker and state Attorney General J.B. Van Hollen have announced plans to use $25.6 million of the settlement money -- about 18 percent of the $140 million Wisconsin will get in total -- to plug holes in the state's budget, according to the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel. As the MJS notes, this is a reversal of Walker's previous opposition to using legal settlements to close budget gaps.

Meanwhile, in Missouri, state Attorney General Chris Koster has said that he plans to put $40 million of Missouri's settlement money -- about 20 percent of the total $196 million -- into the general state fund, apparently in response to Governor Jay Nixon's call for a stronger college and university budget, Stateline reported.



http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/02/1 ... 69560.html

lulz
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Re: Do you want Obama re-elected in 2012?

Postby rickettyrabbit » Mon Feb 13, 2012 12:33 pm

BOOOOOOO!

A cynical calculation? Not enough people screwed when the housing market collapsed to punish these state governments for this cash grab? BOOOOOO!
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Re: Do you want Obama re-elected in 2012?

Postby btb » Mon Feb 13, 2012 4:21 pm

booooooooooooooooooooo yahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
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Re: Do you want Obama re-elected in 2012?

Postby johnny_tropicana » Tue Feb 14, 2012 6:22 am

This morning one of the British House of Lords admonished
America to avoid the pitfalls of the socialization of medicine
which, again, his assertion, has depleted the financial resources
of the U.K.
I wish I could find on online for you, it was a good listen.
We were meant to live for so much more
Have we lost ourselves?
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Re: Do you want Obama re-elected in 2012?

Postby maximus1 » Tue Feb 14, 2012 7:53 am

politicians care less about public programs than their salaries, pensions, and healthcare - which is why they'll cut public programs that the public supports to try to garner support for tax increases before changing anything that really matters. defined benefit pensions should have been phased out like the private sector did a while ago, and it's insane for people working for the government to be making more than people in similar jobs in the private sector. politicians won't make those kinds of changes though - I think the next step in the process will be an escalation in property taxes. At some stage, homeowners will be considered 'those rich people' that need to carry more weight. the straw to break the middle class's back.
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