I manage 8 local software developers, great young bunch of professionals. They arrive early in the morning, well before 9am most of the time, they leave for lunch together then they all leave the office together as well. They get their work done no complaints there. I'm just a little puzzled why they all leave together only to go 5 mins to the metro station before they all go their separate ways.

Of course they get on really well as a team and seem happy in the office, which I guess I should be greatful for and take some kudos for putting together a well functioning team. But this leaving together thing gets to me.

If you know web/software developers then you'll know that they rarely have social lives and live to code, create things on the web whatever, I know I stayed late in my younger days not only for the company but for myself, pushing myself to learn and get ahead etc... I've talked to them many times about taking advantage of staying on a little and perhaps even doing some work on the side if they want, or research something for their projects that might help you know friendly like, but it doesn't stick. And yes some of them are married, only one is actaully local from Shanghai but they are young from 23-27.

How can I tackle this? I cant give them overtime unless its really necessary and OT for web developers is unheard of anywhere else in the western world, minus socialist countries I guess.

Anyone else experience this?...

Your emplyees get together to go for lunch it just like you and your male friends always like getting together to drink your beer in those Malones or Senses in Shanghai, same situation and behaviors, no more difference, no more comments, but may you just are the boss of your team and employees always keep distance with their boss, no matter how friendly or how nice their boss is~

yep, great advice there Nutalie.

Thank you Nathalie, I appreciate your comments.

However I don't have a problem with keeping a distance and being the boss that’s normal anywhere in the world, that's not what my point is though. I just want to know in general if the young'uns are taking on the "collective" attributes of their parents generation I guess? Why aren't my kids here interested in taking advantage of working in a fairly large MNC which is offering them a chance to learn to get ahead but wants a little commitment and some time from their end for this.

Do the young feel entitled to a very easy life?
Is it my fault for trying to create a western work environment where people are treated fairly well?
Should I revert to Chinese management style of treating them like sh*t?

I don’t want to jump in and start changing things if it’s a slight cultural misunderstanding on my part that I’m just not aware of and nobody has told me.

Do the young feel entitled to a very easy life?
Is it my fault for trying to create a western work environment where people are treated fairly well?
Should I revert to Chinese management style of treating them like sh*t?

I don’t want to jump in and start changing things if it’s a slight cultural misunderstanding on my part that I’m just not aware of and nobody has told me.

This world it never gets easy to deal with people their issues in life, when I want to wait for someone in somewhere for a friendly and a serious talk or a meeting, then someone just asks his friends to meet me in at that moment, so you see things it never can be easy to run it in reality, also to work in MNC it also suffers the risks in Challenges, so if people they are afraid of being kicked by their bosses or to be challenged by their colleagues, then the best way is to find a small and even an infamous corp to work in, well, this is just what I think about when you question me about it in shanghaiexpat. Also if I told someone that I don't like him in Malones, then what would happen? So if someone he wants to know that I really like him or not, then someone he can ask me about it personally in some corner of Malones and even someone he thinks it is easy to question me about I really love him or not in front of all his friends in Malones, then it also is a big challenge to me to answer his question perfectly in that moment, cause I cannot lose someone his face or lose something it belongs to me at same time and if I broke it, then no one would be happy in that night, so no things can be easy to behave or to complete in life, cause we humans must keep the rules to enjoy ourselves in our social life~~~~~~~~~~~

My two cents:

first of all, they are all adults and knows what they want to achieve in life and how to achieve it.
secondly, Jeff, you are just trying to impose your values on them. Is that "western environment" of your MNC?
finally, they have done their work. they can choose to leave on time. no one can complain about that.
Aslo paying $ for overtime is legal requirement in china. That means it is NOT an option. I know too well few MNCs (and local companies) comply with this-but law is law.

It sounds like you are really exaggerating the opportunites your company is offering these kids. What exactly can you give them? Since you can't offer OT maybe offer incentives for them to compete.

Entitled to an easy life? maybe, but thats such a bullfeces statement. Who the hell wants to work harder if you're not going to get recognized for it and your large MNC is treating you so well by paying you 2500RMB/month.

I don't think so. It depends on people's personality. Some people like doing things together while some others not. It is not cultural things for guys in China. Gals in China tend to do so. But if those guys finish their work well, why not let them go?

Basically, Shanghainese have no life. They just work (and not always effectively), eat, talk about money, watch TV, surf the Internet, watch each other poop and shuffle about in the worst fashions known to mankind. Their workmates, like their schoolmates before them, are their only friends.

puhlease wrote:Basically, Shanghainese have no life. They just work (and not always effectively), eat, talk about money, watch TV, surf the Internet, watch each other poop and shuffle about in the worst fashions known to mankind. Their workmates, like their schoolmates before them, are their only friends.

Harsh, but justified ?!

Add "get drunk at bars and then fight each other" to the above paragraph and you have Westerners down to a T.

Add "get drunk at bars and then fight each other" to the above paragraph and you have Westerners down to a T.

Harsh, but justified ?!

I'm only here to do two things, drink some beer and kick some ass.
Looks like we're almost out of beer.

cultural WIN.

Most Shanghainese people I work with match the description above. Spend the entire weekend, every weekend, at home with their parents, just surfing the web and playing computer games. Very rarely hear about them meeting up with friends.

Not sure that going to bars and fighting describes Western people, though maybe some of them.

You are not in a meritocracy. You're in a mediocracy. Movement between them is unidirectional only.

We get what we pay for. Cheers

Has your boss brought this up with you? Does he/she see it as a problem? If not, just leave it. Seems nothing is being done against any rules or the cultural norm in your organisation. It's your employees' culture to behave in that way. If it's not having an adverse effect on the organisations' objectives then accept it. You might feel that you are being less of a leader by not persuading them to follow your lead but sometimes being a manager is the best for most concerned, and this looks like one of those times.

Misteral wrote:Has your boss brought this up with you? Does he/she see it as a problem? If not, just leave it. Seems nothing is being done against any rules or the cultural norm in your organisation. It's your employees' culture to behave in that way. If it's not having an adverse effect on the organisations' objectives then accept it. You might feel that you are being less of a leader by not persuading them to follow your lead but sometimes being a manager is the best for most concerned, and this looks like one of those times.

Well Said!