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Excessive Regulatory Policy Never Last For Long

Specific discussions on relocating and moving to Shanghai. Please stay on topic!

Re: Excessive Regulatory Policy Never Last For Long

Postby Stark » Mon Jun 21, 2010 6:23 pm

I disagree with much of what's being said here. Adelaid's basic gist is that the government will temporarily cool the markets but that the underlying factors driving Chinese property prices are unstoppable - continued urbanization and a low supply of housing.

That might be true if property prices were half of what they are today. The current situation is a bubble, for these reasons:

1: There is a concentration of wealth in real estate because there are few other investment channels. Rich people buy many apartments because property has traditionally appreciated - not least because other rich people are hoarding apartments. This, however, will change for two reasons:
First, eventually the government will implement a property tax system. The provincial governments need a permanent cash generator - they can't keep requisitioning farmland and selling it to developers forever - so it is inevitable. When that happens it will cause many landlords to sell their 3rd, 4th, 20th apartments, thereby driving down prices.
And second, as China's financial system continues to develop - and the government loosens its iron control - there will be more opportunities for wealthy Chinese to invest in things like bonds, hedge funds, etc. Property will not be the only investment option, naturally leading to less money sloshing around in the sector.

2: While yes, indeed, urbanization will increase DEMAND for housing, whether it is possible for the average Chinese to buy without incurring crippling burdens is the key. Right now in Shanghai crappy apartments in buildings already crumbling are going for hundreds of thousands of US dollars - enough to buy a nice, new HOUSE in the United States, a country with twenty times the average income. Even in second and third tier cities a 100 square meter apartment costs 25 TIMES the yearly salary - while in America it is only 5. This is not sustainable. Prices need to come down to reflect what the average Chinese actually makes. And considering how generally low quality almost all apartments are here, they SHOULD be lower. Increased urbanization DOES NOT MATTER in the high-end market, and soon even mid - low range apartments will be out of reach of the average white collar worker making 5k< a month.

It is NOT inevitable that real estate prices will keep rising, as Adelaide states. Japan and America are too obvious examples. The trick is jumping ship just when things are about to burst . . . but be careful - - - could be two months from now, could be two years, could be tomorrow . . .

I'm not an expert, just an observer of the drama unfolding here, but if you are drink the kool-aid like Adelaide I've got a condo in Phoenix to sell you.

Andy Xie, arguably the most respected China-economist wrote this article recently:

http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2010/03/fr ... y-balloon/
Stark
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Re: Excessive Regulatory Policy Never Last For Long

Postby $LowLIfeForeigner » Mon Jun 21, 2010 7:16 pm

Adelaide wrote:...most of money you earn will be spent on four basic necessities of life - food, clothing, housing, and transport...


First, guys, why don't try write shorter ?

Yes, a home was, is, and will be - most expensive thing in people's life. However, that's not ALL. Recently i read an article and i fully agree with that, in nutshell, we talking about the price. If price is equivalent of 15 years of rent it is NORMAL. So, normal rent is ~ 7% / year. But what we have now in China ? 10 years ago we just come to China and rented apt. in Beijing for 1600 rmb/m, market price of this apt. was 500k rmb. After 10 years our friend livis in this area and he said what current rent is 3000 rmb/m and price is 3mln. Let we make some calculation ..

10 years ago: rent: 1600 , price: 500.000 , rent % 3.84/year.
Current time: rent: 3000 , price: 3000.000 , rent % 1.2 / year.

So, rent up for 100%, but from another point of view it's felt in 3 TIMES !!!

Please imagine if you take loan for 1000.000 rmb .. how much is monthly pay ? 8000 RMB !
Or you may rent same place for 2000- 3000 rmb .. what is YOUR choice ?
Save the Planet - Kill Yourself.
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Re: Excessive Regulatory Policy Never Last For Long

Postby $LowLIfeForeigner » Mon Jun 21, 2010 7:19 pm

So from the past 30 years, we can see the continuous rising of China real estate.


Bull sh1t. Here was not sales ~12-15 years ago. Flats was distributed depend working place, etc.
Save the Planet - Kill Yourself.
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