Been bumping into some people whose companies are sending them to Shanghai.

It makes me wonder, what is the expat package plan these days (sufferage package so it is humorously called sometimes). I've got these friends moving into the expensive places and I wonder, are packages still just as good as they used to be? Or is the housing allowance still pretty much the same, only the pay is less. Whats the deal these days?

its getting less than before esp. to places like shanghai... the reason is simple supply is increasing and demand is therefore falling... many foreigners are coming here, and while some just come for the torusit sector once here, they "generally" see things thru rose colored glasses and think "hell i'd like to stay" and then proceed to try to find a job... often taking whatever they can (often english teaching) and thus driving the remuneration down... ofcourse once they are working here they 'see' the real china... and it aint the same as the view they had thru them glasses, also its getting harder to find the cheaper places... once again a supply vs. demand situ...

Yes you are right about people coming and then staying, but I was referring to people who are sent here by companies. What are those expat packages like.

They won't let you know.

Howie

I think packages are as good as ever. Actual numbers depend on your position etc. Of course for jobs that require no qualification e.g. "English teacher", relocation expert, financial advisor, as well as for entry-level positions (foreigners who saw on TV that China was booming, are unemployed at home, and decided to come over), it gets very competitive so salaries are typically very low.

Most true expat packages are still very good. There is a clear distinction between expats who are sent here by their company for a specific role who possess a specific skill set (company initiated assignments) and foreigners who make a decision to move to Shanghai and look for a job. A major expat management company undertook a survey of expat trends last year (China specific) and the results showed that most expats on company initiated assignments are still on very good packages. There is no real trend towards "localising" expats (like there is in many other locations eg: Singapore) but there is a trend towards employing Chinese nationals who have been educated overseas and have work experience in a western country. These "returning" nationals represent a cost saving to the company as they are offered some perks over and above what a local employee would get - but nowhere near an expat package. It is certainly not uncommon for expat packages to consist of: housing allowance, utilties, driver & car, eduction, living differential cost, "hardship" premium (yes - believe it or not - Shanghai is still on the "hardship" location listing that many big companies use).

About hardship location: check it the ranking of cities based on quality of life (I remember some postings about it in this forum). Shanghai ranks low, about halfway between the top (some Canadian and Northern Europe cities I think) and the bottom (Bagdad, Outpost of the Freedom Empire in the Orient). I like it here, but the truth is quality of life is much worse than in many other cities, including large Asian cities like Singapore, Bangkok.Otherwise kcoops is absolutely right.

Although I am a relatively young expat (27yrs.) my contract is a pretty good deal. I was sent here for two years with a specific assignment to complete for my company. For this they gave me a "package deal" which together with salary and benefits represents about a 50% raise. Although my salary is only slightly larger than before, now I get 24000 RMB a year for flights home, 1000 RMB a month for taxi expenses, 37000 a year for insurance and pension, 80000 for rent and 24000 for moving costs (one time).
They gave me less than they would have given some older engineers because I was interested in going to China and my son isn't in school yet (no extra schooling costs). Still, I earn a ridiculously large amount of money when you compare me with my local colleagues. It's kind of embarrassing when some colleagues find out how much I earn so therefore I try to keep it a secret. I don't mind telling you guys because we'll probably never meet.
-B

Is Bangkok really nicer than Shanghai?

Having spent a few years in Bangkok and a few months in Shanghai I have the following observations:

1. The expatriate community in Shanghai is certainly larger and more active than in Bangkok.
2. The standard of restaurants and hotels in Bangkok is higher.
3. The standard of housing in Shanghai is higher
4. Bangkok is a less expensive destination (but salaries will almost certainly reflect this)
5. As Bangkok is such a favourite tourist destination, there are many good deals on flights all over the world (BKK Singapore return for US$150)
6. Shanghai does not have a traffic problem when compared to Bangkok
7. The business environment in Shanghai is more exciting
8. It is easier to do business with the Chinese than with the Thais (Chinese are more direct)
9. The language barriers are higher in Thailand where, outside the tourist industry, English is spoken at very poor levels.
10. Oh yes, Bangkok is warmer. All year.

I hope that helps.

Bundbloke wrote:Having spent a few years in Bangkok and a few months in Shanghai I have the following observations:

1. The expatriate community in Shanghai is certainly larger and more active than in Bangkok.
2. The standard of restaurants and hotels in Bangkok is higher.
3. The standard of housing in Shanghai is higher
4. Bangkok is a less expensive destination (but salaries will almost certainly reflect this)
5. As Bangkok is such a favourite tourist destination, there are many good deals on flights all over the world (BKK Singapore return for US$150)
6. Shanghai does not have a traffic problem when compared to Bangkok
7. The business environment in Shanghai is more exciting
8. It is easier to do business with the Chinese than with the Thais (Chinese are more direct)
9. The language barriers are higher in Thailand where, outside the tourist industry, English is spoken at very poor levels.
10. Oh yes, Bangkok is warmer. All year.

I hope that helps.

Having a fair bit of Thailand experience myself I would agree with most of your points. I think some people here will be surprised by what you have said. Particular when you say that it is easier to do business with the Chinese than with the Thais. I agree with you but what most people see of Thai are the friendly people in the tourist destinations. They are basically just more clever and more experienced in taking money from you than the Chinese. I have met few people who have local Thais as friends despite living in Bangkok and other places for many years.

I think I do disagree about the English levels however. Outside Shanghai and the other main cities the English level here is also poor.