tihZ_hO wrote:Check this out LinkedIn (I refuse to sign up so I cannot see the profile)

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/dir/brian/mccloskey

Brian McCloskey

Education Management | China

Coincidence?

It is he. He currently is not accepting invitations or E-Mails. Says he has been in charge of Kaien for 13 years and currently still is.

If I hadn't been paid by this guy, I'd want to know where his mother lives.

If you want to know why most of us continued to work there for so long, it is quite simple. We are teachers who care about our students.

Gzone wrote:If you want to know why most of us continued to work there for so long, it is quite simple. We are teachers who care about our students.

noble, but unfortunately naive.

if you care about your students enough to repeatedly not get paid on time, you put yourself at risk. unless youre teaching purely for satisfaction, youve got to protect yourself, esp in China, where you are not so familiar with the language and your rights.

there is a contract between management and the student, and between you and management, not one between you and the student. if management is not doing its job right, youve gotta protect yourself, either through legal action or five-finger discount.

lesson learned, but you probably know that already.

Kirishima wrote:He can get charged for this. If the teachers filed a group lawsuit, and the students did likewise, he would be found.

Either you do something about it, or don't whinge! If you try and fight it alone, you will surely fail. As a group you will, with perseverence, succeed.

Shanghai PSB have all their details to catch up with these guys...but only if you make the effort to ask them.

i guarantee you that this guy has left the country. people who got screwed have two options:

1. organize and spend more $$$ to chase this guy in hopes that he will be found and brought to justice.

2. accept the loss as a lesson learned, get another job, and move on asap.

Office wrote:1. organize and spend more $$$ to chase this guy in hopes that he will be found and brought to justice.

****, i still need to finish season 6

me too man! dont like it THAT much so far

Unfortunately there are many schools like this in Shanghai and all over China.

And Chinese people still sign up at these crappy hole-in-the-wall sh*tholes day after day....

Some people never learn.

ziccawei wrote:Unfortunately there are many schools like this in Shanghai and all over China.

And Chinese people still sign up at these crappy hole-in-the-wall sh*tholes day after day....

Some people never learn.

Do you know anything at all about KaiEn, Ziccawei?

How about that it was one of the first English training centers opened in China.. Or how about that it is the only school of this type to have ever been formally approved and recognized by the Education Administration of China... How about its excellent track record. Or perhaps the reputation behind the name... Its notoriety.. How about the students language development when compared to other schools which cost a hell of a lot more yet do almost nothing for the student's language development. How about the large percentage of KaiEn's teachers who actually want to teach and help students and who are now out of a job and yet would still like to keep teaching their students despite having been defrauded?
While most of these examples are now meaningless as the boss and partners responsible for this mess have destroyed the good name of KaiEn, It was and will always be remembered (for the most part) as having been an excellent English language training center.
Compare it to whatever Crappy, Hole-in-the-wall sh**hole you perhaps were unfortunate to have studied at if you would like to, but you would be wrong in doing so.

^ It's flawed methods and materials as well as bad management over the long run that put you in the shitter.

1) Teachers should quickly file papers at the proper labor mediation/dispute bureau (depends on the district in which your branch was in) before the statute of limitations expires. Get one of the fancy lawyer disgruntled students to help you. The Chinese staff are doing that already, I'm sure. It's a much easier process for them bc they're Chinese, have a "hukou" and this happens frequently, so they can get at least half of what they're owed from the gubment.

2)Post all the information you can all over these websites: center addresses/phone numbers, owner home addresses, etc. It sucks to do that but the predicament you're in sucks too. Good luck

Gzone wrote:the boss and partners responsible for this mess have destroyed the good name of KaiEn, It was and will always be remembered (for the most part) as having been an excellent English language training center.

Huh? I thought it had notoriously low standards?

I remember that back in 2003 my flatmate (who had this odd knack for getting sacked from teaching gigs) could always count on Kaien as the employer of last resort.

I heard Brian was caught banging a 12 year old boy in the broom closest...

If it was a 12 yr old girl who would care...

So what ever happend to Brian's other two partners?
Ken Carroll – now at Chinese pod
Steve Williams – now at Chinese pod

The way I understood it, was that Brian and Ken both first worked as teachers in Taiwan. After coming to Shanghai they both setup Kaien. Note that Ken Carroll's Chinese name is KaiEn. Although at Kaien I was told that the two letters were part of Brian's name and part of Ken's name. Later Steve joined as one of the partners, being an accountant. Ken was doing a lot with blogs at Kaien and did several podcosts. Later Brian or the company invested money into a company called Chinese Pod. After Chinese Pod was setup, Steve and Ken didn't come too much to Kaien anymore, only for major meetings. During my stay at KaiEn, Brian mentioned getting an investor in able to lead the company into the right direction and in the same time getting some more cash into the company in able to expend to other cities. At that moment I left the company.

One thing is for sure, the company had a wrong business model. I mean come on, hundreds of students who signed up, paid and were put in a waiting list. At Kaien people used to joke that if EF asked all those students in the waiting list to get their money back from Kaien and go to EF that KaiEn would be finished.

So for me not a total surprise.

@Gzone :

"How about the large percentage of KaiEn's teachers who actually want to teach and help students and who are now out of a job and yet would still like to keep teaching their students despite having been defrauded?"

How ? In places locked out, no power/lights, and angry, tearful students, not to mention the parents.

I actually admire your commitment to your exceptionally honourable profession of teaching & sharing, but surely a line has to be drawn.

A fair pay - for a fair day of work is a good maxim. And paid on time.

Beliefs and trusts don't pay the rent.

PM me for issue badminton, not necessarily here.

Z.

I think this whole English training business model might be taking on water with so many companies starting schools and the recession (less export market) hitting the english speaking countries the hardest. Unlike maybe 10 years ago the supply of english speaking chinese/expat workers has exploded without that much of an increase in demand.

dsugg wrote:Lots of businesses fail and how it is handled is a good indication of character of the owner. If you run a business in good faith and it doesn't work out, the best you can do is pay creditors out on a fair basis with whatever money is left. Generally speaking bankruptcy laws are based on fairness and employee back pay is usually at the top of the list for who gets paid first. .

actually thats the complete opposite of the truth. the ownes file bankruptcy, the accountants and lawyers get outrageous billed fees first and there is nothing left for the workers.

employess get little if anything including their pensions

That is the law.

wot u been smokin or please tell me where to immigrate to?

jimshajiang wrote:Hi all, KaiEn is back in biz.. just announced by the chinese partner that biz is as usual.... back to class please!

Dont report unverified information please.
As one of their senior teachers, present today at the meetings with the Chinese partner I can tell you first hand that you are a idiot and a liar. It is not back in business. It is just a desire to resume work that has been expressed. It will take time and the investigation of course must be carried out and concluded before anything can happen.
Rents must be paid. Vendors reimbursed. All teachers' and workers' wages compensated and all students contacted and negotiated with bedore anything can possible begin to happen.
Your idiotic flaming and stupid unfounded gossiping is one of the most problematic factors in this mess. I f*****ing hate people like you!!!

Zak101 wrote:@Gzone :

"How about the large percentage of KaiEn's teachers who actually want to teach and help students and who are now out of a job and yet would still like to keep teaching their students despite having been defrauded?"

How ? In places locked out, no power/lights, and angry, tearful students, not to mention the parents.

I actually admire your commitment to your exceptionally honourable profession of teaching & sharing, but surely a line has to be drawn.

A fair pay - for a fair day of work is a good maxim. And paid on time.

Beliefs and trusts don't pay the rent.

PM me for issue badminton, not necessarily here.

Z.

All things considered, I agree with you completely. And thanks for your understanding.
Many of the posters here seem to be very quick to judge the teachers and staff. But I have always felt that sometimes good people want to do good, and are too trusting of the bad people in the world because they don't want to believe that everywhere you turn is someone lying to you or cheating you and in this case it was a foreign boss with years of experience running what is essentially a famous school.
You are right of course. The line was drawn and thats why I did what I did on monday night. And after serious regrets and depression since that day. I have come to the conclusion that I did nothing wrong. I can't be considered out of line or wrong for telling my colleague what I did. And nor can he nor I be considered wrong for telling students what we did. Allthough niether we nor the students ever said the school was closed or that It had no money. the press reported that to get bigger headlines and thats just the way things progressed.
It matters not now though. Because Brian and the others havent appeared. And probably wont do. I would like to see Alex found though. He is still in China, and trust me when I say that the slime ran thick with this character. I will be trying to wash that off for years.

head teachers , oh i love that vterm

ask

Blair Greatley AKA the paedohile. who works works for shanghai jiaotong university inn nanhui district, shangai. where he rapes and abuses under age chinese girls.

Shanghai Jiaotong University Nursing Training School. Nanhiu district, Shanghai

He has a conviction for grevious boddilly harm already in australia.

please warn these kids

I heard they went Titz up..

ken and brain are all like a piece of S*h*i*t anyway!

disconbobulated wrote:I heard they went Titz up..

Any teachers want to sell your ChinesePod subscription?? Let me know, I need to brush up and I heard that it's actually a pretty good way. Cheers

ClarenceBodicker wrote:

dsugg wrote:Lots of businesses fail and how it is handled is a good indication of character of the owner. If you run a business in good faith and it doesn't work out, the best you can do is pay creditors out on a fair basis with whatever money is left. Generally speaking bankruptcy laws are based on fairness and employee back pay is usually at the top of the list for who gets paid first. .

actually thats the complete opposite of the truth. the ownes file bankruptcy, the accountants and lawyers get outrageous billed fees first and there is nothing left for the workers.

employess get little if anything including their pensions

That is the law.

wot u been smokin or please tell me where to immigrate to?

Yes - in practice you are right. Everyone looks out for themselves and the bankruptcy trustees (more so than lawyers) do very well for themselves. I was trying to show the hierarchy of payout to show what should be done if the owner is ethical.

jimshajiang wrote:Hi all, KaiEn is back in biz.. just announced by the chinese partner that biz is as usual.... back to class please!

Sip some warm soy milk and *+ck off now, back to bed. Back to warm <small> teat off Mama, then provide real useful advice or input on an EXPAT info website, or stay away.

Yes, I'm insulting you.

I worked for Kai En part time a couple of years back, in the Pudong branch. My experience with them was quite good. Granted, I only worked 1 day a week, mainly because I was bored and had nothing to do on Saturday mornings. I had a great time there, it was an easy 1400 rmb cash every Saturday (I only made 200 per hour at Kai En, but it was paid on time every month) working from 9am to 4:30pm, and I made some great friends while there. Yes I know most of you mock English teachers, but as a part time job I think it can be very rewarding. Now I only work at most 6 hours a week because I have a "real" job, but I love it. If you have experience, it is so easy to find companies to work for that pay 300 to 400 rmb per hour if you speak some Chinese.

The extra 7500 per month is chump change for most of you, but for me, it is my monthly going out and vacation fund. I use that 7500 to pay for all my restaurant meals, my occasional bar trips, my trips to see China (I have been to 95 cities in China now). This allows me to use my "real" salary to pay my rent and bills, and put almost 100% of the remainder in to the bank.

tomahawks wrote:^ It's flawed methods and materials as well as bad management over the long run that put you in the shitter.

ok dude. i am guessing you know a lot about second language acquisition and the kaien methodology. Please inform the readers how kaiens materials and methods are flawed in comparison with the other methodologies available on the market.

do you know what you are talking about?