Hello people, We are looking for a good secondary school for my 10 yr old and 12 yr old kids starting August 2012. They currently go to a british IB school in Hong Kong. We checked out the fees for The British School Shanghai, ridiculously over priced. Any ideas/input on other good IB schools would be most appreciated.

I'm a little confused by 'British' and 'IB' applied to a 10 and 12 yo. Are you looking for British curriculum with the IB just in the last 2 years, or the full IB including PYP/MYP?

Most of the international schools are very expensive in Shanghai, though prices vary a bit. SMIC is often proposed as a good lower-cost option. The Lycee Francais is also cheaper though not what you're looking for! SUIS may also be a bit cheaper (I don't remember any more), and does offer Brit-based and IB curricula

curiosity wrote:Any ideas/input on other good IB schools would be most appreciated.

You might want to check out SUIS. http://www.suis.com.cn/ Similar curriculum to BISS, about half the price. We are 99% likely to be sending our daughter there to their Pudong campus in the autumn - she is only going into primary so our priorities are probably not the same as yours (beyond price, ha ha), but I was pretty impressed when I went to visit the campus and have talked to a number of other parents since with kids there who all report being happy with their choice.

wagnett wrote:I'm a little confused by 'British' and 'IB' applied to a 10 and 12 yo. Are you looking for British curriculum with the IB just in the last 2 years, or the full IB including PYP/MYP?

Most of the international schools are very expensive in Shanghai, though prices vary a bit. SMIC is often proposed as a good lower-cost option. The Lycee Francais is also cheaper though not what you're looking for! SUIS may also be a bit cheaper (I don't remember any more), and does offer Brit-based and IB curricula

My kids are currently following PYP and MYP. IB diploma is what we're aiming for in the last 2 yrs. I mentioned British as originally the school was British.

I think WISS and SUIS are the only MYP schools in Shanghai, but if you search the threads on this site I know it was addressed in a topic a while ago. There may be one or two others. Good luck!

WISS used to be the only school that offered the full IB program, but that may have changed. You'll generally find that international schools are much more expensive than in Hong Kong.

wagnett wrote:I think WISS and SUIS are the only MYP schools in Shanghai, but if you search the threads on this site I know it was addressed in a topic a while ago. There may be one or two others. Good luck!

Thanks for the input! I checked out the websites for both WISS and SUIS, they seem quite local. But I will definitely visit the 2 schools before deciding. Any views on SAS, SSIS, SCIS and SMIC?

WISS seemed local? It is probably the most committed to IB full program school in Shanghai, with a wide range of American (North and South), European, Asian, and ANZAC kids- I don't recall meeting any Africans though I know some of the faculty taught there. Primary language of instruction is English with excellent support for non-native speakers; while there are Chinese co-teachers they speak Chinese primarily during Chinese lessons not throughout the day.

SUIS is more of a hybrid local/international, but it does have separate local and international programs sharing buildings.

You'll find threads with info on the other schools. Beware several have multiple campuses- including SAS far west in Puxi and very far east in Pudong. SAS is sometimes referred to as the 'best', but every kid has unique needs.

wagnett wrote:WISS seemed local? It is probably the most committed to IB full program school in Shanghai, with a wide range of American (North and South), European, Asian, and ANZAC kids- I don't recall meeting any Africans though I know some of the faculty taught there. Primary language of instruction is English with excellent support for non-native speakers; while there are Chinese co-teachers they speak Chinese primarily during Chinese lessons not throughout the day.

SUIS is more of a hybrid local/international, but it does have separate local and international programs sharing buildings.

You'll find threads with info on the other schools. Beware several have multiple campuses- including SAS far west in Puxi and very far east in Pudong. SAS is sometimes referred to as the 'best', but every kid has unique needs.

You are right. SUIS website does seem local. I just had a look at WISS, very similar to where my kids are right now. Looks great! Thanks again for your advice.

I also found out that Singpore Intl School offers MYP and the IB diploma program, not sure of the school though. Singporean schools are quite strict in general from my experience living in Singapore for a year.

A tangent note to this thread: there are many more local schools in Shanghai adopting the IB program and philosophy, which is exactly the goal of the IB, to be flexible enough to work with almost any national curriculum. So while SUIS and WISS both offer the IB diploma, they can still be (and in fact *are*) very different in terms of curriculum, student demographics, etc.

Another example: the school I am teaching at also offers IB PYP, MYP and IB diploma. It's called WFLMS (World Foreign Languages Primary/Middle School) and it's a relatively prestigious local private school located in south Xuhui district. Ever heard of the school? I hadn't either until about a year ago, but there you go. I can give more examples if needed, or you can just search the school directory on the IB website.

Finally, I think the information and advice given above is good so I have nothing extra to add regarding the main topic.

msittig wrote:A tangent note to this thread: there are many more local schools in Shanghai adopting the IB program and philosophy, which is exactly the goal of the IB, to be flexible enough to work with almost any national curriculum. So while SUIS and WISS both offer the IB diploma, they can still be (and in fact *are*) very different in terms of curriculum, student demographics, etc.

Another example: the school I am teaching at also offers IB PYP, MYP and IB diploma. It's called WFLMS (World Foreign Languages Primary/Middle School) and it's a relatively prestigious local private school located in south Xuhui district. Ever heard of the school? I hadn't either until about a year ago, but there you go. I can give more examples if needed, or you can just search the school directory on the IB website.

Finally, I think the information and advice given above is good so I have nothing extra to add regarding the main topic.

IB website, great idea! Thanks!

curiosity wrote:

msittig wrote:A tangent note to this thread: there are many more local schools in Shanghai adopting the IB program and philosophy, which is exactly the goal of the IB, to be flexible enough to work with almost any national curriculum. So while SUIS and WISS both offer the IB diploma, they can still be (and in fact *are*) very different in terms of curriculum, student demographics, etc.

Another example: the school I am teaching at also offers IB PYP, MYP and IB diploma. It's called WFLMS (World Foreign Languages Primary/Middle School) and it's a relatively prestigious local private school located in south Xuhui district. Ever heard of the school? I hadn't either until about a year ago, but there you go. I can give more examples if needed, or you can just search the school directory on the IB website.

Finally, I think the information and advice given above is good so I have nothing extra to add regarding the main topic.

IB website, great idea! Thanks!

I have had a look at the IB website. However, found only 3 schools listed, WISS, SUIS and your school WFLMS. Coming from an intl school background, I have the feeling that my kids might not be able to cope with local schools. I will be looking at the other 2 schools next week. Would you suggest taking a trip to WFLMS too?

WFLMS is a local private school. As far as I know the student population is ethnically 100% Chinese (that's counting mixed kids, of which there are a handful) and the number of students who don't speak Chinese at least conversationally is zero. At the middle school level, in a class of 20-some kids, there will be about 5-8 "native" English speakers. I'm guessing this is enough information to help you make a decision about whether to visit.

There is another resource you can use in your school hunt, which is my spreadsheet of Shanghai school tuitions. I update it every year, and it gives a rough estimate (G12 tuition only, no other fees included) of the relative costs of the different schools. It can be a good starting place to develop an initial list of candidate schools based on cost. The spreadsheet is located here:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc ... n_US#gid=0

One more thing to mention is that some international schools in Shanghai offer financial assistance if you ask for it, so don't strike a school off your list without at first inquiring about how much they would be able to support you in that respect.

Just one point you might not be aware of coming from HK - school fees paid in China are tax deductible in China for expats - can make a big big difference!

^ what does this mean?all expats?claimable from which government? I am an aussie here and would love to know how to claim this all back!My husband's company(he owns it)operates frm HK...does this mean he can claim on his HK taxes paid?

It is a China tax rule specific to taxes paid in China and relating to school fees paid in China by expats(appropriate Chinese fapiao - available from registered schools within China). So no use on your HK taxes unfortunately.

Anybody have info on SCIS ? It's got the IB and looks pretty good to me, although expensive... but if the tax thing works... With SAS, is one campus better than the other, in facilities or level ? And how about Concordia ?

The choice of which campus of SAS is generally of function of where the workplace is as the campuses are at the extreme ends of the city. Puxi campus, near Hongqiao airport, is the longer-established program at the highschool level. Its more asian and has more longer term students. Pudong campus, near Pudong airport, has more mobile population, lower asian population esp. Korean. It used to be considered that Puxi had a better high school program but that is no longer true. Pudong's has matured and IB results are same or better than Puxi's in recent years. Generally more seats come open at Pudong, than at Puxi. Both campuses have high level programs and very high level facilities.

Concordia, in Jinqiao, is Lutheran-owned and operated. Much lower asian population than either SAS. Campus is close to expat housing, convenient but cramped.

I've only visited SCIS -smaller campus, seemed good. I have a colleague who is very happy with Yew Chung as bilingual education was very important to the family but is transferring the children for high school to SAS.

Visit and pick the school that fits your needs.

Thanks mmhm.
That's funny, it's not the first time I hear people speak highly of Yew Chung but move their kids over to SAS. Yew Chung sounds a little too bilingual for my lot as they already have French and English. Also it's very expensive...
One question, is it feasible to live near the SAS Puxi campus and have one child commute to SAS Pudong campus ?
My husband's office is on the Puxi side and my 2 other kids will probably (hopefully) be in the Puxi campus of the French school... so we'll be looking at places in Puxi area I guess.
I'm asking because SAS has already told me exactly what you wrote, that SAS Puxi is more full of long timers and has less places available than Pudong which is more geared to "transients". We'll be there for 4 years so my son will finish high school in Shanghai so I'd love not to have to change schools again! And here in Hong Kong all his school friends are Chinese so that's not a problem.

It is a loooong haul out to where SAS is, even if you already live in Pudong, so your child would have a very very long commute. However you would not be the first family to send their child to SAS Pudong, whilst waiting for a spot in SAS Puxi to open up. In fact, this is what the school will probably advise you to do, because (as I understand it) if your child is already enrolled in Pudong, they move to the top of the wait-list for Puxi. I know of families with pupils who enrolled in Pudong and were then moved to Puxi in as little as a week. In the interim, if your kid is OK with a long commute and you have the means to get them back and forth, then that is probably your best option.

Thanks Klick... still wondering how long is v, very long... 1h ? 1h30 ?
Hopefully we'll be graced w a driver... I'm looking forward to that!
Just thought that maybe via the big outer ring or whatever it is, since it's far from the center it might not have that much traffic even if the distance is far...
However, SAS person I talked to seemed very excited when I mentioned that I would consider Pudong if Puxi had no space available... that made me wonder whether saying that was really to my advantage. It felt like it would actually play against me, if they have another student who is adamant about Puxi, compared to us, he'd get Puxi since we had mentioned Pudong would do...

Was the person you talked to at SAS named Maria, by any chance? If so I kind of know her - not well but from "around". (Shanghai is a small town, if you're an expat.) She works in both locations so she's very 'up' about both; I really don't think it's a ploy to throw you off Puxi and keep you in Pudong at all. Whoever you spoke to I'm sure is just happy that you were willing to consider it, many people wouldn't. But as I said, others do, and it has worked out for them. I don't think I've ever heard of anybody who just never got a spot where they ultimately wanted to be.

Commute time yeah, more like 1.5h.

Wow! That is a v,v long commute...
It's hard when there are so many things to take into account: hubby's commute, younger siblings commute, dog-friendly housing, and my teenager going into grade 9. I'd just really like to find the right school for him now so that he can do his 4 high school years all in one school with IB and not have to change again! At SAS I talked to June B. (not sure should give last names on forums!) who was very nice. SAS is by far my first choice because from what I've gathered it has a top-notch reputation and IB. I'm going to SCIS too which looks really good but its downside is that it is just that much more expensive... and my hubby's co being French, they're not too happy about paying that much more than the French school... I'm also trying Concordia because it looks like a strong school but it doesn't have IB which is a major letdown for me.

Have you looked at WISS at all? It is quite close to the Puxi French school (about 7 min by car), and offers IB (in fact, not only diploma but also MYP and PYP). Our older daughter (9) is there, while our younger is at the Lycee. They generally have space, as it is a newer expanding school. Very international population, with a lot of Europeans.

wagnett wrote:Have you looked at WISS at all? It is quite close to the Puxi French school (about 7 min by car), and offers IB (in fact, not only diploma but also MYP and PYP). Our older daughter (9) is there, while our younger is at the Lycee. They generally have space, as it is a newer expanding school. Very international population, with a lot of Europeans.

I had a look at WISS, looks great! It's the only school that offers that full IB program in Shanghai.

We also had a look at SCIS, SAS, Dulwich and BISS. The principal at SCIS came across as very warm and friendly, my kids loved the environment and so want to go there. Unfortunately, they follow the American curriculum but my kids are used to British, so it won't be the right choice for us I guess. Same goes with SAS.

We have shortlisted Dulwich and WISS and will send our kids to one of the schools depending on how much my husband's company is willing to pay.

^ Good luck Curiosity. My most recent question was actually aimed at Sophie....threads do wander away from OPs sometimes!

wagnett wrote:^ Good luck Curiosity. My most recent question was actually aimed at Sophie....threads do wander away from OPs sometimes!

I guess we were both aiming at Sophie. Sophie, I went to Shanghai last week and finally decided on either Dulwich or WISS. All the popular schools we looked at seemed alright, except for tuition which is higher than the most expensive schools in HK. I hope the quality of education and teachers is as high as the fees. Good luck!

Thanks Wagnett!
I had dismissed WISS at first because, on the IB website, I saw that the voice of subjects they offered at last year's IB diploma was very limited (no French, Spanish, Business, Film, theatre which are all options my son might be interested in). But the IB site doesn't mention that they do MYP... only that they did PYP. And my son is currently in a school that has MYP so it would be a great idea to continue that stream since he seems to love it.

Thanks curiosity!
I've got to schedule my visit to Shanghai... wondering if I should schedule for after the results of SSAT test, in case he needs an interview... And, yes, I'm also a bit worried about company reaction to school fees! I'll give a call to WISS and see. Did you manage to see all the schools in one go ?