Hi all, We are a Swedish family relocating to Shanghai in August. Our 4-year-old will probably go to The British international school or the Dulwich int school. Has anyone got any opinions on these or other schools? Could anyone recommend housing, which is close these schools and that are within our budget - 32500 RMB? High standards and facilities is more important than size for us. Is Jin Qiao a nice area? Hoping for answers

Nice but a bit boring. Just my personal opinion. With a younger child who does not particularly need to be on an international academic track, why not live someplace closer to downtown?

I like it here in Pudong- we live oposite Thumb Plaza and my 6 yr old daughter attends Dulwich. We are very happy, but I also know that if I was younger and/or single I would be living the other side. Horses for courses really ,as we say.

Thank you. Yes, we are drawn to live in French Concession, but I,ve heard that would be tricky with traffic to and from school? Have you got any views on Dulwich vs The British Int school? Is it difficult to get in? Could you recommend any compounds in Pudong? Thank you!

Half of my last international school was Swedish so if you are like my Swedish friends you will want to have some space around you when you leave your place. If you plan to stay in Jin Qiao it may be better to choose Dulwich over BISS just for the distance - a 4-year old may not wish to spend above 30 minutes in a bus every morning.

Otherwise I miss Puxi for the shops and restaurants, even most of the good spas are over there. But I am really enjoying Pudong especially Jin Qiao, I really appreciate the space, the cleaner air.

Lummy wrote:Thank you. Yes, we are drawn to live in French Concession, but I,ve heard that would be tricky with traffic to and from school? Have you got any views on Dulwich vs The British Int school? Is it difficult to get in? Could you recommend any compounds in Pudong? Thank you!

Well I guess my question is, why do you think your child has to go to BISS or Dulwich? Nothing against either of those schools, they are both well regarded, and if you were talking about an older child, then I could see why you would feel you needed a particular curriculum. You are quite right that there is no way you can live in the FC and have your child go to either of those schools. But your child is four, which means kindergarten for at least another year, and there are many fine kindergartens all over town, including in the FC. If your child goes to BISS, well, it's waaaaaaaay the heck out in Kangqiao, which is near... well, nothing. Dulwich is in Jinqiao, which is OK, too suburban for my taste but it has more going for it than Kanqiao, and I get that some people aren't keen on city living and so prefer something that is more like what they are used to 'back home'. I just think though you have a great opportunity to live in a more lively, interesting part of town for at least your first year, and it would be a shame to waste that. But, that is just my opinion.

The reason we want our son to go to one of the international schools now, is to prevent him from having to change school in a year or two. Could anyone recommend any high standard houses or apartments in Pudong on a budget of 32500RMB? It is important to us to have high standard and good facilities, more than size. Really grateful for input and suggestions here!

That was what I wouldn't do either - change the school after a year. Much as I know that there are some nice kindergartens out there in the FC. Besides coming from Sweden you normally start school later so while your kid is still 4 it may be better to just quickly push him into the water so that he gets used to attending school. I know of many Swedish kids who turn up after Grade 2 or 3 and end up having to drop a year because of that.

For 32500 rmb I don't think you can find a house in Jin Qiao though I could be wrong, of course. But you definitely can get a town house or a nice flat. I have friends staying in town houses in Green City (?) just opposite the Carrefour in Jin Qiao and they are really happy there. For 30000 you can have 4 bedrooms over 2 floors. And you have membership at Megafit with daily sports classes, gym, pool, children's play area etc.

Friends living at Yanlord Town near Thumb Plaza are happy with their apartments there too. For your budget you can get something really nice as prices can be as low as 12000 for a decent flat there. Anyway, do you not have an agent over here to help you?

Also, klick is right in that there isn't only BISS or Dulwich that are good here. There is also YCIS, SMIC etc and if you want to take the opportunity and have your kid learn Chinese, these would be good schools to consider.

With that budget you will be able to get a superb apartment anywhere in the city. Adrienne, who posts on ShanghaiExpat, will be a good place to start.

I live in the more local side of Jinqiao as my company moved here and I got sick of the commute. I agree with Klick though really. It's nice enough but boring and we find ourselves going to Puxi a few times a week for fun.

The two compounds petales mentioned, Green Hills and Yanlord Town, are good bets. There are other factors to consider though - will you have a car and driver? Do you need access to public transportation? Where will you be working?

Your budget won't likely get you a house, but you should be able to get a really nice apartment.

In the defence of Kang Qiao area (where I live), I think that many people never come out there and therefore don't really have much knowledge about it and therefore make a lot of assumptions. There is a big shopping mall called Wanda Plaza about 3kms from the Emerald on Hunan Lu, with a large Tesco store, an international cinema complex. IKEA is opening a massive store on Hunan Lu in the next couple of months. There is a 5 star Holiday Inn newly opened just off Hunan Lu (beside the British School) and, of course, the new Disney World will be about 15 minutes down the road in the coming years. There are several really nice housing compounds in the area (Tiziano, Bellewood, Emerald, Trinity and Oasis Villas). Not all will be within your budget, but some will (possibly Bellewood, and definitely Oasis Villa). Cambridge Forest also has some new townhouses which are within walking distance of the British School. Outside Kang Qiao itself, everything is within a maximum of 25 minute drive including airport, Xintiandi, Lujiazui, Jinqiao and Thumb Plaza. Do not write it off without checking it out at least! It is quite nice being out of the hussle and bussle, whilst still being able to access things easily when you want to. Good luck!

Thank you all for great tips! The office will be in Pudong, we will have a driver and we definately want our son to learn mandarin at school. Narrowing it down, it looks like we should get a flat in Jinqiao having a budget of 32500, or possibly a small house in Kan Qiao. Could anyone recommend great international schools nearby that teach Mandarin? Is YCIS, SMIC that Petales mentioned, close to Jinqiao?

I was in Kang Qiao yesterday since my eldest goes to SCIS. We ate at Wanda Plaza but I still prefer Thumb Plaza, for example. But Tesco will probably be nice.

The area at the moment is a mess. No doubt with all the development going on they will clean it up sooner or later, but right now most parts of Kang Qiao look seedy. And the traffic jams there were horrible, it took us more than 30 minutes at 11am to get from Jin Qiao to Kang Qiao, I cannot imagine what it would mean to try to get to Liujiazui from there.

Talked to kid's teacher who lives in Kang Qiao. Guy said they were happy at the beginning to be away from the expat zone of Jin Qiao, but after some time, Kang Qiao is starting to feel a little too far out. Families with several kids studying in SCIS or BISS would appreciate living near the schools and if you have more than 40000 rmb it would be really lovely to live in The Emerald. But like Klick said, Jinqiao can get boring, so a few trips to Puxi would be necessary and Jinqiao is already far enough for that...

Travel times can vary greatly depending on routes used. My driver tried out many options and my husband makes sure that he does not use Hunan Lu wherever possible. He can get from Kang Qiao to Lujiazui in 40 minutes during rush hour in the morning and I can get from Kang Qiao to Jinqiao in 20 minutes most days after rush hour and by using Luoshan Lu.
This post has lost sight of the most important issue, that for me is the schooling! My kids go to BISS and they have a very good Mandarin programme and can cater for beginners to native speaker level, all the way up through the school. They have a very nice international community with many Scandanavian families. I suggest that you focus on finding the school to suit your son and then consider the other issues. Ask to be put in contact with other families from the school to see how they made their choices. Approach things with an open mind and I am sure that you will find a solution that works for your family! Wish you all the best with your search!

I agree which school is important, but not so much at age 4, as opposed to say, 14. Whatever school he goes to it will be his first, so unless he's got some particular issues, I don't know that it's such a big deal, as he'll be coming into it fresh, without preconceived ideas of what school should be like, and he's not streaming for IB or anything like that. (If there are special needs, I have heard that BISS is a good choice because they are a bit more flexible with their curriculum.) Almost all will feature some Chinese instruction, but Yew Chung (YCIS) focuses on Chinese language acquisition more heavily than the others, so if that is a priority then it is worth considering. Also, be aware that most schools will have a waiting list, so you may not get into your 'first choice'. Basically, I'm saying just don't get soooo wrapped up in the "must find the most absolute perfect school ever!" thing (it's easy to do). There are many great schools and many great places to live, so you need to balance what kind of lifestyle you want to have overall with where you are able to get a place.

icedtea wrote:Outside Kang Qiao itself, everything is within a maximum of 25 minute drive including airport, Xintiandi, Lujiazui, Jinqiao and Thumb Plaza

From the part of Jinqiao I live it's 20 minutes to XTD without any traffic. You must have a fast driver! Is it easy getting taxis from Puxi to take you out there?

petales wrote:Talked to kid's teacher who lives in Kang Qiao. Guy said they were happy at the beginning to be away from the expat zone of Jin Qiao, but after some time, Kang Qiao is starting to feel a little too far out.

Jinqiao isn't only 'Biyun'. I live over by the Line 6 Jinqiao Road station in a newish apartment. It's very much a local area and you can actually find some Chinese food nearby! I have the convenience of the metro right there and a straight run along Zhangyang road into Puxi. It's handy enough but already becoming a bit boring.

Hmm, yes maybe I am trying to work out too much too soon. I would however want my son to get the oppurunity to learn mandarin whilst there and avoid changing schools. He is leaving his nursery class here in Sweden, which I know will make him sad. Great to know that BISS also has mandarin classes! I suppose we will visit schools during our pre-visit and then find housing close by. Really great to have been given an better understanding of how things are in S. Thank you all!

Seriously as our kids are older we placed our priority on the schools and found our house after that based on where we finally placed them. But like Klick said, yours is only 4.

Just a quick word on Mandarin learning, I am quite impressed with YCIS where this is concerned. In less than 2 months my 8 year old who had zero Chinese when we arrived can now write 90 characters, read and form simple sentences...If she had started in Kindergarten I think the results will be even more impressive.

My boy who is in SCIS however could barely count in Chinese (though he is very happy in the school anyway) after 2 months of Chinese learning. The support is just not the same, YCIS has come up with their own textbooks for Chinese learning and it is an effective method that makes you read, write and learn situations at the same time.

Heard that the workload in SMIC is even heavier, but maybe that would be too much. IB schools have more to just academics and I find that just as important.

Jinqiao isn't only 'Biyun'. I live over by the Line 6 Jinqiao Road station in a newish apartment. It's very much a local area and you can actually find some Chinese food nearby! I have the convenience of the metro right there and a straight run along Zhangyang road into Puxi. It's handy enough but already becoming a bit boring.

You are right, of course. My driver gets his meals from somewhere near Biyun since the eateries in BY are usually too expensive for him. I have been meaning to ask him to give me a tour of the more local parts of Jin Qiao, I am sure that it would be interesting. And I do lament the lack of a metro near where I live. The other day I hailed a taxi from Carrefour to return home and the driver mocked me, saying that it wasn't interesting earning my 12 yuan. I have been thinking about getting a taxi to the metro station (another 12 yuan ride) the next time I want to visit Puxi so I am now a little discouraged.

I am considering sending my kids (7 and 2) to YCIS Pudong and searching for a house in Regency Park or Seasons' Villa. Are these compounds ideal for children and convenience (to supermarket, clinic and hospital, shopping malls, public parks etc).

During my look-see trip, Seasons' was not ready for viewing. The compound looks new and each house comes with floor heating. Saw Regency's houses, most do not have floor heating. I prefer floor heating to air conditioner.

draconian wrote:I am considering sending my kids (7 and 2) to YCIS Pudong and searching for a house in Regency Park or Seasons' Villa. Are these compounds ideal for children and convenience (to supermarket, clinic and hospital, shopping malls, public parks etc).

During my look-see trip, Seasons' was not ready for viewing. The compound looks new and each house comes with floor heating. Saw Regency's houses, most do not have floor heating. I prefer floor heating to air conditioner.

Did you have a look at a few schools? What made you choose YCIS? What are the rents at the living places you looked and what facilities did they have? Great to hear from someone who has recently been looking.

draconian wrote:I am considering sending my kids (7 and 2) to YCIS Pudong and searching for a house in Regency Park or Seasons' Villa. Are these compounds ideal for children and convenience (to supermarket, clinic and hospital, shopping malls, public parks etc).

During my look-see trip, Seasons' was not ready for viewing. The compound looks new and each house comes with floor heating. Saw Regency's houses, most do not have floor heating. I prefer floor heating to air conditioner.

I actually used to live in Seasons Villas for 9 years. Had to move out 2 years ago, because Hutchison Whampoa was going to sell all the units to individual landlords, after major renovation. Seasons and Thomson Golf are the oldest compounds in this part of Pudong. I always liked it there, because of the houses with basement and floor heating, vicinity to YCIS where my daughter (now 13) has been going since kindergarten. Perfect place for kids, safe and quiet.

Now I live in Greenhills, also nice but a smaller place. The houses in Regency are quite crappy. I saw them being built. And they are not much more than steel frames filled in with bricks and concrete. No insulation, no proper heating, but very expensive.

Andreas wrote:

draconian wrote:I am considering sending my kids (7 and 2) to YCIS Pudong and searching for a house in Regency Park or Seasons' Villa. Are these compounds ideal for children and convenience (to supermarket, clinic and hospital, shopping malls, public parks etc).

During my look-see trip, Seasons' was not ready for viewing. The compound looks new and each house comes with floor heating. Saw Regency's houses, most do not have floor heating. I prefer floor heating to air conditioner.

I actually used to live in Seasons Villas for 9 years. Had to move out 2 years ago, because Hutchison Whampoa was going to sell all the units to individual landlords, after major renovation. Seasons and Thomson Golf are the oldest compounds in this part of Pudong. I always liked it there, because of the houses with basement and floor heating, vicinity to YCIS where my daughter (now 13) has been going since kindergarten. Perfect place for kids, safe and quiet.

Now I live in Greenhills, also nice but a smaller place. The houses in Regency are quite crappy. I saw them being built. And they are not much more than steel frames filled in with bricks and concrete. No insulation, no proper heating, but very expensive.

I have understood one can reduce the prices that are set. What would you say is a realistic rent at Greenhills, what could (or could you..) we get for 32500RMB? What could we negotiate as part of the rent? We are considering YCIS for our boy - is it a good school ?

Lummy wrote:

Andreas wrote:

draconian wrote:I am considering sending my kids (7 and 2) to YCIS Pudong and searching for a house in Regency Park or Seasons' Villa. Are these compounds ideal for children and convenience (to supermarket, clinic and hospital, shopping malls, public parks etc).

During my look-see trip, Seasons' was not ready for viewing. The compound looks new and each house comes with floor heating. Saw Regency's houses, most do not have floor heating. I prefer floor heating to air conditioner.

I actually used to live in Seasons Villas for 9 years. Had to move out 2 years ago, because Hutchison Whampoa was going to sell all the units to individual landlords, after major renovation. Seasons and Thomson Golf are the oldest compounds in this part of Pudong. I always liked it there, because of the houses with basement and floor heating, vicinity to YCIS where my daughter (now 13) has been going since kindergarten. Perfect place for kids, safe and quiet.

Now I live in Greenhills, also nice but a smaller place. The houses in Regency are quite crappy. I saw them being built. And they are not much more than steel frames filled in with bricks and concrete. No insulation, no proper heating, but very expensive.

I have understood one can reduce the prices that are set. What would you say is a realistic rent at Greenhills, what could (or could you..) we get for 32500RMB? What could we negotiate as part of the rent? We are considering YCIS for our boy - is it a good school ?

There is always room for negotiation. And your budget should be able to get you a 4 BR place in Greenhills. Try to negotiate a club membership. It's hard to give you a finite guideline here, because most places in Greenhills are owned by individual landlords, some are good and some are crap (I had both)

We are quite happy with YCIS, because they are a school where one can opt for a bilingual curriculum. My daughter is half Chinese, and we like to give her the chance to become fluent in Chinese. Also the whole package they offer is nice, with a lot of good extracurricular activities offered, albeit expensive like any other international school here. Also YCIS is not too far from Greenhills, and they have a school bus service there too.

You will see that YCIS is not as sexy as the other schools like Concordia or Dulwich, but for that it feels more like a school. There are people from all over and the school is still well situated. It is near Kerry Parkside and Thumb Plaza (maybe 20 minutes on foot) and hospitals, clinics etc would be a short cab ride away.

Most compounds here are huge and houses built really close to each other. I actually like the older phase of Regency Park which is just next to YCIS. The houses have 4 bedrooms and a big garden only unless it is recently renovated you cannot expect to have floor heating. And the club house and general landscaping is nice.

Thank you for the feedback. Just wanna to drop a line to say that I have leased a house at the Seasons'. I will be glad to be of help to anyone in need of info on this compound.

Is Seasons (the one opposite YCIS?) now open for rent? They are now owned by individual landlords, no?

What's the price range like? Above 40K? Is there a clubhouse (renovated?)

They were not available for rent when we were house hunting, will be interesting for those who have kids in YCIS...

Excercise caution when you deal with an individual owner! What you agree may not be what you get. I have offered my letter of intent to 3 owners and must say, imposed covenants in the lease agreement that is unreasonable........e.g. that owner/or owner's agent is allowed to conduct viewing with the intention to sell during the tenancy or new owner do not have to oblige with the tenancy agreement. Must say, shanghaiese are the toughest to deal with. Last, rental is 50K and above depend of built-in area.......take it or leave it......
Given that only phase 1/2 were released, the choice is limited. These houses are smaller compared to the phase 3/4. Phase 1/2 are closed to huamu/liushan road and YCIS.

Which was why our agent recommended that we rent from a developer and the State to boot... glad we did just that.

I see which houses they may be I.e. just opposite the school. I saw them renovating and thought they looked quite finished. However like almost everywhere in Shanghai, the houses are close to one another. But you get a "new" house

Some are happy at YCIS and some have left!