How expensive is Shanghai for expat familys?

by **venezia** » Fri Aug 29, 2003 7:59 pm

:question: How expensive is to live in Shanghai for expats ?

Hi everybody!

I\'m carefully planning to open an office in Shanghai and trying to figure out (roughly) the cost of bringing my family with me.

How much i’m going to spend for:

a) renting 3/4 bed room appartament or house in livable expatriate area.

b) monthly fee for 6 year old child into international (english speaking) schools.

c) a good medical insurance for 3 of us.

d) car insurance for a Chrysler grand voyager or Volvo v70 or similar.

plus isurance for a small Toyota corolla Nissan micra or similar.

e) are cars more expensive to buy in comparison with Europe, Usa or Australia?

family membership for an average golf club. (not the ones that costs 200.000 $ please).

I think that most of you guys are familiar with all the above expenses and your answers and suggestions are going to be helpful for me and maybe for somebody else who is planning to move to Shanghai.

by **TXMOM** » Fri Aug 29, 2003 8:48 pm

question: How expensive is to live in Shanghai for expats ?
It depends on your lifestyle while here. In my view, nice housing is very expensive (but comparable to large cities in the US like New York or San Francisco). However, day-to-day living (food, household goods, entertainment, etc.) can range from very cheap (if you go totally local) to fairly expensive (US prices or higher) if you eat at \"western\" style or other high-end restaurants a lot and buy all imported foods at the specialty/gourmet markets. One company I know of calculated that it would cost about US $1700 more per month for an average family of four to buy western goods and services in Shanghai, but that seems a bit high to me.

How much i’m going to spend for:

a) renting 3/4 bed room appartament or house in livable expatriate area.

Again, depends on what you consider \"livable,\" what part of town you want to live in, and whether you need furnished or unfurnished. In general, I think $5-6K (US) can get you a pretty nice, roomy (2000-3000+ sq. ft.) \"pseudo-western\" villa (I say \"pseudo\" because the villas I\'ve seen in this price range tend to be \"Americanized\" in some ways, but some things are just not quite like we\'re used to back home (e.g., small kitchens, strange floorplans, other idiosyncracies). There are some really nice places in town that start at $11 or $12K per month.(See, for example, Le Chateau, on some of the local real estate consualtants\' websites like www.shanghome.com, www.autumnleaves.com.cn, www.metropolis-sh.com -- these sites have good photos of properties and can also give you some idea of prices).

b) monthly fee for 6 year old child into international (english speaking) schools.

Expensive -- US $18,500 per school year for Shanghai American School, over $18,000 per year for Yew Chung SIS School (UK Curriculum with a reportedly great Mandarin program too). More than four years of college cost me (for tuition, room and board!). Some of the others may be a little cheaper, but not by much, I think.

e) are cars more expensive to buy in comparison with Europe, Usa or Australia?
Yes, I think they\'re more than a comparable car would cost in the US. I read somewhere that the VW Santanas that are so prevalent here (as taxis and private cars) are about US $20,000 (or maybe it was $25K - I can\'t recall). They aren\'t all that nice (not for that price anyway) -- about as luxurious as a Toyota Tercel, for the price of a Honda or low-end Camry. Then you have to pay for the license or \"tags\" which can cost another $2 or 3K, I think.

There\'s lots more info on these boards about the questions you raised. Do a search and you\'ll probably uncover more info. and other viewpoints.

Good Luck!

[Edited on 29/8/2003 by TXMOM]

by **PhatAV8r** » Tue Sep 02, 2003 11:31 pm

: question: How expensive is to live in Shanghai for expats ?
I agree, depends on how you live. What is livable for some is totally unacceptable. For instance, I live SE of Shanghai only 15 minutes from Xinzhuang, 25 from Hongqiao, and 55 from Pudong Intl, 45 from downtown. But, my housing area is still REMOTE by expat standards. With that, I enjoy arguably the least polluted air of any compound in Shanghai, but I pay for it by the distance. I live in a 5BR, 5 bath house in a compound with pool, restaurant, c-store, fitness center, tennis, basketball, kids soccer field, and a staff that will do almost anything we ask, oh and a 9-hole (albeit par3) golf course with no green fees. I get this place for $3200 a month with maid service (meaning they provide clean towels daily, and change the bedding just like in a hotel, and daily cleaning of course). So, again, it depends, there are always the trade-offs.

I\'m carefully planning to open an office in Shanghai and trying to figure out (roughly) the cost of bringing my family with me.

If you are \'carefully\' planning, reconsider bringing any vehicles with you. You will pay almost what they cost in the US in duty, and they won\'t last but 3-5 years.

a) renting 3/4 bed room appartament or house in livable expatriate area.

see above, but remember, you can find what you want if you have time to look, and don\'t care what the price is.

b) monthly fee for 6 year old child into international (english speaking) schools.

This cost was overstated, a 6yo child is 1st grade I take it, elementary age kids average $9k at most of the english speaking schools

c) a good medical insurance for 3 of us.

Medical is available in Shanghai at fairly reasonable rates for normal care, and they have decent care for the average illness (although for some reason, adult appendicitis is the leading cause of death for misdiagnosed problems in China). You will need a carrier from the US that has a Intl partner accepted by one of the expat clinics. Dental is too inexpensive here to mess with US dental (unless you are going to get it done when home summers).

d) car insurance for a Chrysler grand voyager or Volvo v70 or similar.

plus isurance for a small Toyota corolla Nissan micra or similar.

Car insurance is based on the car, and goes with the car regardless of the driver (in other words, if you hire a driver, or if you drive, the coverage is the same for the car). Dealing with traffic problems, small accidents, hitting a pedestrian is a whole other world. Word to the wise, hire a driver for 2000 rmb a month, you can\'t afford not to. (one accident with injuries to a Chinese citizen will make you a believer).

e) are cars more expensive to buy in comparison with Europe, Usa or Australia?

YES, YES, YES... any car that is manufactured outside of China is MORE expensive up to three times. There are decent cars manufactured here (I hate to give them the plug) but the GM vans are decent, and Honda makes the Odyssey in Guangzhou. They cost about twice what they would in the US and you will pay 40,000 rmb to put them on the road, plus another 40k for a plate if you don\'t license them to your business.

family membership for an average golf club. (not the ones that costs 200.000 $ please).

Depends on the club, usually better to LIVE where the club you belong to is, this give you a discount on club membership, and allows a discount for guests to play with you. But on average $10-25k depending on the club Tianma will be big bucks, haven\'t checked out Hongqiaos club fees (open at night).

Hope that helps, keep doing the research, good luck with the business.

by **TXMOM** » Tue Sep 02, 2003 11:51 pm

Hey PhatAV8R -- great info. Your compound sounds really great -- nice facilities! Wish we had better ones here. We\'re paying (well, the company\'s paying) well over the $3200 that you are and our place (4 BR 3 BA townhouse) doesn\'t sound nearly as nice. But the location in Hong Qiao is very convenient to most things we need (esp. the kids\' school & grocery shopping). And with no car and driver, we needed someplace convenient. Trade offs huh?

On the school cost issue, I didn\'t realize there were much cheaper ones out there. I thought the ones we looked at all were in the ballpark of what I quoted above. Pre-K at the school my kids are at is running $11K each, plus food and bus costs. Glad to hear there are other less expensive options out there.

Did you get the PM I sent you?

[Edited on 2/9/2003 by TXMOM]

by **Michael** » Tue Sep 23, 2003 11:51 am

All good info above..
Just two cents to add.
On housing, you can find a decent 3-4 BR under 2K. We had a 3 BR 130 sq meter in HuaShan Garden when we arrived 3 years ago for US 700 month. It has gone up, but that a decent building, downtown. Good furniture, 2 bath, small kitchen. But it was OK. I would expect the same place would go for $1500. You can drive a bargain. There is a glut of higher end units from al that I have been told. and I have no doubt you can find a desparate landlord wanting to cover his mortgage.

Read the FAW section and the Relocation articles if you have not already.

Don't bring a car.. its not worth it. There are people who would debate that. .I have my opinion. It would be so much cheaper to hire a car and driver here. We figured we save over US 700 over the cost having a car by taking taxis everywhere.

by **biggerpete** » Tue Sep 23, 2003 2:00 pm

I work for a real estate and management leasing firm, I'm not sure if I can mention our company name so I won't, but we are specialists in dealing with expats living and working in Shanghai.
If you are coming to shanghai I can personally take charge of all your affairs, from finding suitable office space for work, a home for your family to arranging car insurance and schools for your children.
I can even have you picked up at the airport, arrange hotels and give you a tour guide of shanghai.
I would like to add that this service is free in Shanghai.
If you would like to know more about our service you can email me at: agency@kingseal.net

Peter Keeling

by **brandywoo** » Tue Sep 23, 2003 10:10 pm

Hi, Venezia, my friend has a brand new villa in Song Jiang District. Although the place is not near the downtown, it's lively. I will tell you if you have interest.

As for the golf membership, I know the price for the membership of the golf club called Sun Island International Golf Club is around US$ 25k per member + one person. The club is quite nice. I go there very often. And it's about 30 minutes away from my friend's villa.

And I'd like to give you this website: www.oooooooo . I hope it can be helpful for your office setup.

I don't know whether you will find a satisfied medical insurance here. Because the insurance structures in China is not so perfect as overseas. Anyway, AIA or PICC is a good insurance company here.

Sure the cars here are much more expensive than in Europe, US or Australia. Because the import taxes for some products or goods here are very high. Although China has already entered into WTO, it has to take a certain time to reduce the taxes fee gradually.

In whole, I do hope you can come to Shanghai and fall in love with this lovely city. Welcome to Shanghai !