We'll be in Shanghai for househunting next week. Have 'spoken' with a couple real estate agents and when told that we'll only move in mid-June, they all told us the same 'story'. They said that most (if not all) landlords will not be willing to hold the house/apartment for us from Mar to June without any rentals. One suggested that we just do sample viewings next week, and then do the actual househunting when whole family is there at the end of May. Then once confirm and lease signed, we can move in straightaway. Is this true?

We didn't have such problem when we moved to Beijing last time and chose and confirmed our house early Apr, moving in only in June. But then that time we leased directly from developer. So maybe they didn't mind leaving the house empty without rental income for 2 mths. Could someone advise on this?


Then after hearing this, and pondering what should we do. I suddenly have this idea. Since most expats move during summer once sch ends, will it be possible for me to ask around here for existing tenants who're confirm moving out in June? And if they're happy with their landlord and their unit, perhaps they could connect me directly with the landlord and we could negotiate something without going through real estate agent. Is this possible?? workable? Pls share yr views.

Thanks in advance.

Kiwitay: Agree with your first paragraph. Agents will not be very interested in looking way in advance, as you will probably not be willing to pay a holding fee, which would be substantial, and landlords would not be willing to leave a place empty for long, and who could blame them?

It is recommended to stay in a reasonable hotel, then "hit" the place with a good agent, who will find you your place in about a week.

Also it CAN be very false economy to avoid using a good agent.
They know what needs to be signed to protect your interests, (such as the register of all appliances, fittings, furniture, and damage) As an example.

As well, a good agent can often negotiate a favorable rental, thus saving the cost of commission, which is a once only payment. Also good agents will sort any problems out for you AFTER the signing.

John.

I saw this and figured I should chime in. I hate real estate agents. Almost as much as I hate travel agents. I feel it's a service that is only useful for the rich and the lazy. They wanna cart you through apartments as quickly as possible and try to get a sale. They will often rush sales., and all-in-all, are MUCH less forthcoming and honest about apartment problems (perhaps because they know nothing about the apartments they're renting, unlike the landlords) and PURPOSELY advertise a rental price that's higher than what they expect, especially to foreigners. Also, be careful of agents that rent out rooms (probably not relevant for you) as they will make quite a large profit in renting each room out individually. In Shanghai, real estate agents are ten times worse than in our home countries. Very little regulation, you gotta watch your own back. I've had countless problems with them, so be careful! I forgot the link, but there's a great article on the "Love Box Self Storage Shanghai" website, i'm sure you could google it, there are some tips about renting in Shanghai.

Firstly, it depends on your budget. If you have deeper pockets than the average laowai, then I think a Realtor is a good idea, as the owners of high class properties rarely rent out by themselves and will go with a reputable company.

The problem is, how can we rent an apartment without a real estate agent when we can't speak and/or read the local language. There are a few websites...like craigslist, enjoyshanghai, and cityweekend. Those listings are cool, but limited. Often you can take over a lease an avoid the agency fee (35% of one month, if I recall).

My place, was rented directly from the owner. It took a fair bit of planning, hunting, e-mail sending, searching, but it was worth it. I negotiated the rent myself after doing a little research locally, and they were fine with about a 2 month wait before I rented.

OE800: If you have attracted ONLY bad agents, frankly, it says more about YOU than them.
There are some very good ones out there.

The sites you list are next to useless, and are full of agents listings that are non-existent,
false, borrowed photos, already sold, etc etc.

You recall wrong. The agents fee is 70% of one months rent, and shared between landlord and renter. This applies to lower end, say under about 8,000.

^ I concur

OP – I highly suggest you use a realtor. Just 3 days ago my husband and I contracted for a larger flat in our present developer owned/managed complex. Prior to calling a realtor my husband spoke personally with the leasing manager and he was told there was only one flat available and he was quoted a rather hefty price. The flat wasn’t ideal nor was the price so he rang up our realtor from last year and to our amazement the realtor secured us a flat at our present complex that is double the size of our present and 70% cheaper than the one my husband was shown and quoted.

Bottom line, we westerners cannot underestimate guanxi. Husband was trying to save everyone a lot of trouble and money by dealing with the complex management directly, when in Chinese reality husband disregarded tradition and came off like an arrogant ass. Ying/yang, night/day, east/west – our reasonings couldn’t be more different – but while in China…

My 2¢ - there are different truths and approaches to acquiring different levels of housing here. Expat housing negotiations are better served via leasing agents. And - as others have stated, the property listings at all the Realtor sites are rubbish. Truly in a week's time you should be able to settle on appropriate accommodations and move promptly after a contract, especially if you're able to narrow down your area and amenities on your first visit.

monalisalee wrote:OE800: If you have attracted ONLY bad agents, frankly, it says more about YOU than them.
There are some very good ones out there.

The sites you list are next to useless, and are full of agents listings that are non-existent,
false, borrowed photos, already sold, etc etc.

Yup, but in the morning, from 6-9am, except on cityweekend, we post real stuff on enjoy & craigslist.
Smartshanghai has a filtering system, they have limited posts and they call the agents to see wether places */ are real.
But we quite doing it any other time, and after 10 you won't find anything.
Flooded by spam, probably 1000 listings a day, and rarely any are real.

To the OP, not sure if you called us or not, since a few have with similar dates in recent weeks.

I would have answered you to wait as well, depending on your budget for what you're looking for.
Because I would want you to get a deal.
And though we have places that come out in May, June, which I would have pointed out you'd have a lot more options closer to your moving date.

Which benefits only you.

Also, you have more leverage in negotiation and price cutting, or for other perks if your move in date is closer (the sooner, the more leverage).

So this is also to your benefit.

I recently rented an apartment we tried for 13k (which was asking 15)
with move in date april 1st and some other things.
Landlord refused us, and I got the apartment for 11 asking them to start the lease 2 weeks earlier and leave the other things away.
It's basically the same deal but two weeks earlier is actually tomorrow and the landlord didn't open the door (if he knew it's the same people it wouldn't have worked).

When we arrived here we contacted several agencies and we got good help and advise.
We were looking for apartments between 20 and 25 k, and all the agencies told us that we were not paying anything to them. The landlord pays the commission here once the lease is signed.
The same apartment can be offered to you with 10-15 % difference in the price, depending on the agency. We were shown more than 40 units until we found what we wanted... I think is worth it to work with at least one good company, since they have big portfolios and the agents (usually young people, with decent English) work very hard!!

OE800 wrote:I saw this and figured I should chime in. I hate real estate agents. Almost as much as I hate travel agents. I feel it's a service that is only useful for the rich and the lazy.

Just my two cents on this. I'm far from rich and, being Scots, keen to save every penny/rmb. I have had two house agents since I arrived in Shanghai and both have proved invaluable, not just in finding apartments at my price but in sorting out any problems that might arise afterwards. I wouldn't contemplate trying to find an apartment without one.

As to avoiding agency fees, I've never had to pay one...although I accept it's probably built into the rental amount. And I'm in the budget range as far as prices go.

As for travel agents, yes, I am lazy. It's a fantastic feeling to have your tickets delivered to your door at much less than the price you've been able to find on the net. Again you have to find a good one, I have one recommended by a friend.

I think, OE8OO, you've either been very unlucky or just hadn't done your homework.

inefable: Right on. Two GOOd agents is probably ideal, and tellimg them so, as there will be a little healthy competition, and if there are ten agents involved, well, they just may not bother, and you couldn't really blame them.
From what I have seen the agents, particularly in lower end rentals work damn hard, with sometimes little return for the hours they put in.
You are right with higher end, such as 20-25 K. The commission will invariably be paid by the landlord, as you are paying a premium, and will often be 100% -120% of one months rental, instead of the 70% in lower end rentals.

Thank you everyone for your kind advice.

Actually when I had the idea of 'taking over' leaving expat's housing, I was not thinking about saving on agent's commission. In the first place, i dun think I even need to pay for any commission since we'll be getting a place that's possibly more than 15k in rent. It's more for assurance of a problem-free apartment and good landlord.

Anyway, we will probably make use of the 'free' service by the relocation agent that the company has arranged for us this trip. Let them show us around the various compounds and areas that our budget could 'bring' us. Then we'll do the actual househunt when I arrive in May.

One last question, will the coming World Expo cause a shortage of apartments?? I hope not.

There is nothing for sure, but it's reasonable to assume that you'll overlap with expo stayers.
We have a lot of people employed by the pavillions and companies just here for the expo starting since around last december.

I say 70% are willing to forfeit deposit and sign year leases, others sign short term so there will be some extra places coming out in october.

I think you may see a small increase in rent downtown because of the extra demand in the downtown area, they have good budgets compared with other expats and may give you a run for the place.

Wow. Any advice for someone looking to rent in the MUCH lower range?
Planning on coming in May, but looking to spend no more than 3500RMB/mo (expecting a shoebox, but hopefully a nice shoebox)

Last time I was in China (2007) I paid 4500 in BJ, and 2300 in SH for an apartment. The 4500 apartment came with UV treated and filtered tap water, which was a nice touch. The 2300 apartment was large, but quite local and way out in Jinqiao.