Hi everyone,

I've been offered a transfer at my current place of employment and I'm curious to see what people on here think about the terms. I've looked into some of the other topics on the board about this subject and my gut tells me the offer is very attractive, but wanted to see if my instincts are correct from people who have actually spent time in Shanghai and are more experience in these things. First, a few details -- I'm 29, two degrees in business and science, high level of expertise in my field (relatively senior in my current company and 7-8 years in my field), no language skills to speak of (barely speak English). I'll be bringing my spouse (we're common law, not married) along with me and we have no children. Currently reside in Ontario, outside of Toronto.

The details of the offer are as follows:
1.2MM RMB base salary (represents a ~30% premium over existing pay and is supposed to cover additional COLA, housing, etc. -- there are no allowances for these, just an increased base salary) + 30K bonus CDN (roughly an additional 200K RMB)
Guaranteed year end bonus of 40%
$20K CDN travel allowance (flights home or any domestic or local travel, provided it does not exceed $20K, includes hotels) / year
Language / culture lessons for me and girlfriend ($4K / year allowance)
Tax protection on all allowances and salary (e.g., no tax payable and salary tax guaranteed to be no more than what I pay in Canada)
$10K relocation allowance (one time payment)
$5K leaving Canada allowance for fees, etc. on existing contracts
B-class flights over and return home when required
Full medical coverage for myself and GF
All accounting fees paid for by firm and professional tax preparation help paid for
$6K moving costs are covered
3 weeks in hotel upon arrival to find accomodation + meals

Anyway, for someone at my level this seems like a relatively generous offer -- no housing / COLA outright, but those seem to be included in the premium on the salary according to my firm. My gut tells me to take this offer and run with it while it is on the table, but am curious to see what others think?

Thanks!

What do you pay, right now, per month for housing, food, utilities, transport and the like?

Shanghai is right up there with NYC, London and so on, its is not cheap if you attempt to recreate your current lifestyle.

COL

Right now:

$3500-$4000 / month all in for rent, food, utilities etc. I lead a fairly frugral life in general (e.g., don't drink, don't smoke, and generally don't spend money on extravagences). I also don't own a car, use public transport, and prefer walking when I need to go somewhere. Not that this is a true comparison, but I also lead a fairly 'non-western' life even in Toronto in terms of diet (e.g., prefer rice over bread, don't eat cereal, milk, or cheese, and tend to not eat things like pasta / western food). Most days I eat rice and veggies in sauce if I cook for myself.

On that note, company pays for dinner if I stay past 6pm and most transportation after 6pm is covered (e.g., cost of a taxi home from the office). All costs are covered if I work weekends (which frankly, I regularly do).

Seems like a pretty fair offer. It's not a big bonus nor is it a big disadvantage.

Normally, money would play a bigger role in my considerations, but at that money, you're not squeezing the loonies, so what matters is the experience - career and life.

What will it do to your value back in Canada (assuming you want to return within a year or two)? I have clients who operate in both Canada and China. In the one with its own plants in China, an assignment in China for a non-Chinese is a sign the company is thinking bigger for that person. They want him/her to understand more of the operation. A year or two in China, bolstered by the development of fluency to discuss things with Chinese (although not manage those who aren't already fully fluent in English) would be an asset.

Your business may differ and so may the intentions of your employer. My client manufactures electronics for OEMs - low to medium volume, high complexity b-to-b equipment.

The second question is how you and your gf feel about a stint in Shanghai. Personally, although there are many annoying things about Shanghai, it's a trip to live there for a while, and there's a lot to see and learn. It will change your world view, and with China's rising importance in the world, that can't be bad.

The biggest caution I have is that you may find some aspects of Shanghai quite uncomfortable, and that can wear on you over time. It's hotter and more humid than Toronto in summer. And even though it's not as cold in the winter, it may feel worse because even new buildings are not well insulated and weather-sealed, heating systems are often noisy and drafty, and overall home comfort is several notches below even a 30 year-old well kept apartment in Toronto. There are some new apartments here with single glazing, and very few more than a few years old have double glazing. (And China produces electricity with dirty coal - go figure!) If I were doing it, I'd insist on an apartment with radiant in-floor heating. They're not all that common but I'm sure you could find one.

And getting exercise in Shanghai is not as pleasant as in Toronto (I've visited Toronto many times, and know about its parks, running and biking trails, etc. There's virtually nothing like that in Shanghai.)

If I were in your shoes, I would most certainly do it, but we're all different.

Looks pretty good, specially the tax part...
You can live a comfortable life in Shanghai with that package

Maybe i missed reading it...but how long is the contract? what if..it dos not work?
You are 29, what the heck...just do it

I was 36 when i went to Shanghai with so many questions in my mind like you..I went and have only 1 regret (I did not buy a couple of "apartments" 8 years ago)

If you are intrigued by the idea of living in China, go for it! If you are worried you won't be able to adjust, don't. It will be an amazing experience for the right kind of person, and you are lucky to have the opportunity. On the other hand, some folks would just be miserable. Expect to go through culture shock. That will be a brief rough patch, but you will get through it. Once you get accustomed to the constant stimulation of living someplace with such a different culture, you will probably find returning to a relatively comfortable life in Canada rather boring.

Hey,

Thanks for all of the advice, it's hugely helpful. My girlfriend's extended family is all from the Philippines and we visit Asia regularly to see them. In addition her three best friends reside in Asia. For both of us the idea of living in China is interesting and exciting, but there are substantial concerns about health / hygeine and the pollution.

The contract would be for 2 years, with an option for extension if both parties feel it is necessary. There is also opportunity for negotiation of additional benefits throughout the contract (e.g., if things truly are substantially more expensive the door is open for additional renegotiation). Finally, my firm is relatively easy going about repatriation. If things are an absolute disaster they would prefer to retain me as an employee, move me home, instead of forcing me to stay. In order to deal with this they do not enforce any penalties for leaving early.

From a career perspective this represents a relatively large investment and demonstration of good faith. The company is currently make major investments in Asia, and the other folks who are moving to China all have 10+ years experience on me and substantially more senior.

Is there anything in the package that I should absolutely negotiate for or ask for?

I would say take the offer, you can get a 1 bedroom apt here for 8-12k RMB that is serviced and has water filters.

An ayi to cook and clean for few thousand RMB a month.

Spending about the same you as you did back in Canada will allow you to live quite comfortablely.

Air pollution and wondering just what is in the food you are eating are very valid concerns. Personally, I think the experience outweighs the risk. Sorry I can't advise you on the package. The offer looked good, but others here will have more insight on that angle. You haven't mentioned kids, so I assume you don't have any -- otherwise international school tuition would be very important.

With your package you can live pretty comfortably especially since your don't piss away your money.

Guys / Gals,

Thanks for all of the advice and help! We've decided to accept the offer and will be in Shanghai by te end of April provided the Visa / moving process goes smoothly. Hope to eventually meet some of the folks from this board once we arrive.

Cheers,

your base salary.. 2MM rmb. What is 2MM?

MM = Million