KaiEn English New Thread...

[magnus1977]

I am by no means defending what KaiEn did. But according to the Shanghai Daily article only one location was closed. So it's not totally closed... I worked for Kaien for 2 years and I saw issues before I left.

My question is this....

How could KaiEn bow out and close their doors in the right way? The way it all worked... is that they would sign up people, get the money, use it and then if any student asked for their money back... it's already gone! How sustainable was this kind of business model anyway??

Is there an English school anywhere in China that closed in a proper way? How could they give all that money back??

Ps. Knowing Brian the CEO personally, I love the image of him leaving one day with tons of money under his jacket... passport in hand, getting into the taxi and saying, "PUDONG AIRPORT, and Step on it!!"

[tihZ_hO]

Why imagine?



Brian McCloskey

[paulinshanghai]

Why is there a second thread on this? What happened to the first?

[tihZ_hO]

More coverage? WTF who knows?

[magnus1977]

TiHZ....YOU MADE ME LAUGH OUTLOUD!!!

Video in Chinese... who is the Foreign guy speaking? Anybody know? Who is the foreign woman speaking? She was crying...
http://video.sina.com.cn/news/s/v/2009-12-16/094150030.shtml

[tihZ_hO]

^ Glad you liked it

Here is KAI EN's updated website

http://tinyurl.com/yzfqe62

[magnus1977]

Holy crap. tihZ_HO...YOU ARE FREAKING HILARIOUS!

Everyone click on the link above.

[blosoom]

he didn't 'abscound' with any money relating to the school, that is simply not true. Too many of you out there suffer from Schadenfreude and should take a moment to analyse why you gloat!

PS, knowing Brian too, I like the idea of him getting in the taxi etc...lol

[dr3x320]

from magnus's sina.com link is what I'm referring to as well as a bit done by STV.

This is what happens when you have a company, either investors ripping the customers (english learning students), or a group within the company using the investors money to use their money without their knowing. STV did a thing about this 2 nites ago where KaiEn's invested 250k RMB to open a school (which is the least amount you need to open an english school here in Shanghai, possibly in China), and used ineffecient teaching materials and substandard learning techniques to steal money from students. They interviewed a few english teachers mostly in their 40+'s, a 40+ year old woman said she only had 1RMB in her bank account, she does not have money for food, rent, clothes, or enough for a plane ticket, she basically risked everything she had to become an english teacher here in Shanghai.

Another man was also in the same situation where he said during the interview "I was told by the investors and my boss that the school would not get shut down, and that we will continue to teach and get paid for it", now about a half dozen english teachers mostly in their 30-40's are going to be out of money here, and back home, a visa issue, and obviously financial issue without an exit strategy.

A few friends of mine asked themselves a simple question, how can these 2 people for example, have no security, savings back home, unemployed at the age of 30-40, where they have to resort to teaching english in a foreign country, where the economy is growing faster every day and they are unable to literally compete with the current crisis around the world if not their own personal career/financial situation?

This brings me back to another thread where pple mocked Shanghainese people who establish their security in buying their own home regardless of the market/economic situation. Least they have a roof over their heads, and food that can get by for under $10/day, not the greatest but sure looks better then what these 2 shmucks are going through.

On the bright side, why not have the students study at a different location if indeed 1 location is only having issues being maintained. Teachers side, well either migrate into the other locations and have them spread out the workload in order to compensate the issue at hand or have the entire business model of KaiEn English School shut down indefinitely as there's enough audacity happening in the city already. If anyone knows the people in that interview, I think the local gov't needs a few more extra hands to repair the roads quicker before the Expo, could give that a shot.

[Mr Totomolo]

This problem can happen with many companies in the service sector, not just this specific school and CEO.
Like someone said previously above, it is the business model where customers pay upfront for a large sum, or a membership, etc...
It happened also with some gyms in Shanghai also (I remember having read a post from Dazza about this) , and if I have read well, with some clubs too (M1NT ?)
In Taiwan last year, there was a huge scandal when the largest gym company Alexander went under. The founder CEO lady ( a taiwanese, not a foreigner) is now in jail, after the court proved that she had let the company continue to sign off hundreds of new members while the management knew very well that the company was on the verge of bankruptcy.

http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/biz/arc ... 2003452607

Alexander club founder sentenced to jail
By Liu Chih-yuan and Kao Chia-ho
STAFF REPORTERS
Wednesday, Sep 02, 2009, Page 12

The Taipei District Court on Monday sentenced Alexander Group (亞力山大集團) founder Candy Tang (唐雅君) to two years in jail, suspended for five years, and fined her NT$6 million (US$180,000). Her sister Tang Hsin-ru (唐心如) was sentenced to one year and 10 months in prison, suspended for four years, and fined NT$3 million. The rulings can be appealed.

The two sisters were indicted in January last year on charges of fraud and breach of trust.

Battered by financial difficulties, the Alexander Group shut down its 20 Alexander Health Club (亞力山大健康休閒俱樂部) branches on Dec. 10, 2006, without giving prior notice to its 10,000 members and 2,000 employees.

Two days later, Candy Tang and Tang Hsin-ru were released on NT$2 million bail each after being detained on suspicion of defrauding customers.

The judges stated in their ruling that the sisters were aware of the company’s financial difficulties, but continued to promote the club and sign new members.

However, as the sisters did so to protect the club’s image and there was no evidence that they had pocketed the NT$244 million in membership fees, they did not receive the sentence of five-and-a-half years sought by prosecutors, the court said.

Candy Tang has proposed ways to compensate the health club’s members.

[emailcharlie]

Well i know brian personally and he has always been Mr. Nice when it comes to managing the teachers and being fair. Whenever Alex was initiating his cost cutting schemes trying to rip off everyone in the company it is usually brian who stands up (although as academic director after having stepped down as ceo, he was no longer in a strong position).

Having spoke to a few ex kaien colleagues (who left way before), it appears that if the company is facing financial ruins with the possibility of paying back millions of pre-paid tuition, most of us would be do the same thing. which is: sell the house, move overseas and protect what is most important in life - family. cuz in the end, i am sure most people would chose family over integrity. right?

[Seen]

^ Yes most would probably choose family over integrity (I'm probably one of these people) but that doesn't mean what Brian did was right and should escape prosecution. If an action is justified based on "because most people would do it" then we'd have murderers everywhere.

[magnus1977]

Interesting points everyone. I would be interested to see how this story develops. If you see anything please post it here.

[ingenue]

OK - so lets get a coupla things straight here: -

First: I was NOT crying. It was simply that the pungent smell from the piles of B.S. drifting around the office had set off my allergies, ok?

second: I am not actually 40+ but am actually 22 years old. Yeah, ok, I know that sounds hard to believe, but I am the victim of an obscure aging disease, contracted when I was once locked in a verbal battle to the death with a half-cocked opponant who based all their opinions on what the media said.

three: how I got into the position I was in....well it all started when I was cruelly orphaned by my poor but honest parents. I stowed away in the hold of a modest cargo ship and came to China to take care of widows, other orphans and cute puppies. It was the arch-villian McCloskey who sought me out and, with his silver-tongued manipulation, convinced me I could do more good working for his benevolent fund for a token sum.. Right?

Three. I may be a schmuck, but I would rather be one of those than a fraudulent, spineless thief. Or a jejune, opinionated pratt with ever-so-slight racist tendencies.

[Office]

^humor attempt = fail

[kimball06now]

... and used ineffecient teaching materials and substandard learning techniques to steal money from students.

No ill intent, yet how do less than great teaching materials or similarly less than average quality teaching constitute stealing money from prospective students? At what point do prospective students hold some responsibility to gain some insight on the overall quality of teaching or research the quality of teaching materials? If the students haven't done their homework before investing their money or don't put forth sufficient effort to learn, is the school alone in not producing great results? Sometimes, it's all too convenient for results to be the "other guy's fault". That said, Kai En appears to have some real shyster investors on the lamb.

[Office]

substandard teaching materials can include books with tons of typos, mistakes, stuff that hinders the learning process