We rent a apt. 4 months ago, we agree in the lease that the landlord would provide Fapiao every month, but every time we ask he say "just give me a few days I'll send" and we never get.What should we do?? The real state person call him all the time and he do the same to them.Is there a better way to approach the guy?
Please advise
Thanks

Stop paying rent, that will get his attention.

I'm not sure how this works, but I remember for my dad's apt, when I signed the contract for him, the tenant signed another contract to get fa piao from real estate agent...

Edit: since my dad isn't in China most of the time, there's no way he can provide fa piao every month or w.e.

If he's not providing fapiao that may mean he ain't paying tax.

Show him the address of the tax department in Chinese.

That will get his attention.

Torch the apartment.

This will get his attention.

^ you need anger management.

As Michael says, no fapiao no rent. Simple. I take it that providing a fapiao is in the rental agreement?

jzzzzzzz wrote:Torch the apartment.

This will get his attention.

Haha!

The critical question is do you need a fapiao for reimbursement? If so, you should make him understand that your company will not pay if he does give you a fapiao. The other thing you can tell, is if cannot provide one, you can get one and deduct the charges of getting on from rent. If you actually just want a receipt for proof of payment and do not need to claim expenses, it may be more trouble than its worth. Just make sure you pay by bank transfer and not cash.

Gay_Chevara wrote:If he's not providing fapiao that may mean he ain't paying tax.

Show him the address of the tax department in Chinese.

That will get his attention.

Seriously, would reporting them to the tax bureau create problems for the landlord, or the tenant? Reason I ask is I've talked to our accountants about reporting suppliers who don't issue VAT invoices, and they laughed saying the tax bureau will fine us for encouraging the supplier to do business sans taxes. I say its horseshit, but TIC and who knows if its true or not.

My second landlady in Shanghai, an evil blood-sucking kind of moth that had dead white skin falling off in flakes, tried to do exactly that. She was caught and tried to get me involved and I told her to buzz off. As far as I remember or know about, I think she had to sell the apartment in order to pay fines and other sh*t.

Tax fapiaos have recently become much more difficult to obtain. For years I've gone to my local real estate office and paid them 5% of a fapiao's value and they've snagged one for me easy as could be. But this month they told me they could no longer do it - I went to three other offices and they all told me the same thing - - - - - while before they could simply rock up to the tax office and pay the tax now they need the rental contract, the landlord's ID card and the landlord's certificate of ownership. Much more of a hassle. I had to go to my landlord and have her make a trip to the tax office for the fapiaos this time. Many of the real estate agents don't even know about these rule changes - or maybe they are simply enforcing existing rules for the first time.

Anyway, it is way more of a hassle now. Something expats should know about. They may change the rules back when their tax take is cut by a third, but as of now this is the situation.

Call the media.

That's the quickest way to get attetion and get your problems solved in Shanghai where keeping face is so important. And media would love to see that a foreign face is invovled in the usually mundane Chinese vs Chinese trifles.

My agent gets me fapiao every 3 months as stated in the lease, the owner of the house pays 5% . In other to do it, the tax bureau give a document written in Chinese (3 or 4 pages each time)so that my Mr. Co put a stamp on it. I get mine the same day I pay the rent.

We need the Fapiao for income tax I guess and we have to turn it in the 15th of every month, if the guy don't come up with the fapiao till this 15th I have to do some about.I think I can break the lease since in the lease stated that he had to provide fapiao every month then after I do that should I turn the guy in to the tax department so learn his lesson?

^^You can go to government tax office and get a tax fapiao for your rent. Just tell them how much the rent is and pay the tax yourself. Your landlord will not do this because you haven't payed him the tax and he is too busy. Bring copies of the ownership and rental papers and a copy of your landlord's id card... Or just say "fugg it" and forget about it. I doubt you'll be able to break your leese and get your deposit back over this.

I can have the rent payment deducted from my taxable income each month if I want to go through the hassel of getting a fapiao, but I'm too lazy to bother...

Wonder if the gov't tax office will issue VAT invoices for items we bought and the seller likes to dodge tax. Have no problems giving the tax office their bank account number, and receipt of deposit.

Stark wrote:For years I've gone to my local real estate office and paid them 5% of a fapiao's value and they've snagged one for me easy as could be.

They made good business with you. The property agencies actually get a good discount on fapiaos if they submit more than a certain amount. Somebody told me this when I moved to China, and my property agent always shares some of the discount with me. ( I pay him for the fapiao directly, not the landlord). And yes, these are real fapiaos.

mjk wrote:

Stark wrote:For years I've gone to my local real estate office and paid them 5% of a fapiao's value and they've snagged one for me easy as could be.

They made good business with you. The property agencies actually get a good discount on fapiaos if they submit more than a certain amount. Somebody told me this when I moved to China, and my property agent always shares some of the discount with me. ( I pay him for the fapiao directly, not the landlord). And yes, these are real fapiaos.

I know they get the fapiaos for 3%. I considered it a service charge since they were doing me aservice by going to get them.

Anyway, the rules have changed. If you need these fapiaos you'll have to get certain documents from your landlord - I wonder if the agencies will still be able to get the discounts.

i don't think I want my landlord to give me fapiao. I got the cheapest rent around area and 100x better apartment than the rest of other people here. Let just say I talk the landlord to lower the rent 1600 from 2000rmb. 1 bedroom, 1 big bathroom, 1 kitchen (gas), 1 living room and 1 laundry area. Some agents has come to my apartment in shock to know my rent is so low.

Stark wrote:

mjk wrote:

Stark wrote:For years I've gone to my local real estate office and paid them 5% of a fapiao's value and they've snagged one for me easy as could be.

They made good business with you. The property agencies actually get a good discount on fapiaos if they submit more than a certain amount. Somebody told me this when I moved to China, and my property agent always shares some of the discount with me. ( I pay him for the fapiao directly, not the landlord). And yes, these are real fapiaos.

I know they get the fapiaos for 3%. I considered it a service charge since they were doing me aservice by going to get them.

Anyway, the rules have changed. If you need these fapiaos you'll have to get certain documents from your landlord - I wonder if the agencies will still be able to get the discounts.

if its the first time u are getting the fapiao from the tax office, then they need ur tenancy agreement and probably id card copy of ur landlord. also 5% is for normal apartments and 3% is for old apartments. i doubt things have changed as i just my fapiao with no questions asked. after all we are just paying tax. why should they refuse payment?

wuyee wrote:

Stark wrote:

mjk wrote:

Stark wrote:For years I've gone to my local real estate office and paid them 5% of a fapiao's value and they've snagged one for me easy as could be.

They made good business with you. The property agencies actually get a good discount on fapiaos if they submit more than a certain amount. Somebody told me this when I moved to China, and my property agent always shares some of the discount with me. ( I pay him for the fapiao directly, not the landlord). And yes, these are real fapiaos.

I know they get the fapiaos for 3%. I considered it a service charge since they were doing me aservice by going to get them.

Anyway, the rules have changed. If you need these fapiaos you'll have to get certain documents from your landlord - I wonder if the agencies will still be able to get the discounts.

if its the first time u are getting the fapiao from the tax office, then they need ur tenancy agreement and probably id card copy of ur landlord. also 5% is for normal apartments and 3% is for old apartments. i doubt things have changed as i just my fapiao with no questions asked. after all we are just paying tax. why should they refuse payment?

Okay, well, not to keep this straying too far off topic but for whatever reason the real estate places around Hengshan all couldn't get fapiao like they used to. And not to quibble, but:

1: before I'd always gotten fapiao without any documents. Just handed over 5% to the real estate agent and told them my address and how much

2: how would they even know whether your apartment was 'old' or 'new'?

3: I was tossing around some ideas in my head as to why they suddenly decided to crack down on fapiaos, and IF they have then I think it is probably because they need to figure out who owns what in Shanghai, and who is making how much money off leasing their places. Maybe in anticipation of a property tax, which will inevitably appear.

old = lao gong fang or old walk up apartments.

wuyee wrote:

Stark wrote:

mjk wrote:

Stark wrote:For years I've gone to my local real estate office and paid them 5% of a fapiao's value and they've snagged one for me easy as could be.

They made good business with you. The property agencies actually get a good discount on fapiaos if they submit more than a certain amount. Somebody told me this when I moved to China, and my property agent always shares some of the discount with me. ( I pay him for the fapiao directly, not the landlord). And yes, these are real fapiaos.

I know they get the fapiaos for 3%. I considered it a service charge since they were doing me aservice by going to get them.

Anyway, the rules have changed. If you need these fapiaos you'll have to get certain documents from your landlord - I wonder if the agencies will still be able to get the discounts.

if its the first time u are getting the fapiao from the tax office, then they need ur tenancy agreement and probably id card copy of ur landlord. also 5% is for normal apartments and 3% is for old apartments. i doubt things have changed as i just my fapiao with no questions asked. after all we are just paying tax. why should they refuse payment?

What is an 'old apartment'? I live in one of those 6-level buildings, is that a 3%er or a 5%er?

My situation is that the landlady is refusing to give me a rent fapiao. We never agreed on her giving me them before the contract was signed, but I'm asking for one now and she's refusing. She says something along the lines that: if she gets a rent fapiao for the last 3 months, she'll be forced to pay rent tax for the rest of the year too. Is this true or is she bullshiitting?

Can I still roll up to the tax office and pay the tax myself? Contract, her ID copy and the cash is what I need? Can I get by without a copy of her ID?

Thanks.

mrbigglesworth wrote:My situation is that the landlady is refusing to give me a rent fapiao. We never agreed on her giving me them before the contract was signed, but I'm asking for one now and she's refusing.

Yes the problem is that you didn't agree this during the negotiation. Tax evasion, especially property tax evasion, is pretty much an epidemic here. To give you a fapiao she will need to pay 5% of the rent in tax.

jzzzzzzz wrote:

mrbigglesworth wrote:My situation is that the landlady is refusing to give me a rent fapiao. We never agreed on her giving me them before the contract was signed, but I'm asking for one now and she's refusing.

Yes the problem is that you didn't agree this during the negotiation. Tax evasion, especially property tax evasion, is pretty much an epidemic here. To give you a fapiao she will need to pay 5% of the rent in tax.

I know this. I'm asking for one now and I am very obviously willing to pay the 5%, but she's refusing.

What is an 'old apartment'? I live in one of those 6-level buildings, is that a 3%er or a 5%er?

My situation is that the landlady is refusing to give me a rent fapiao. We never agreed on her giving me them before the contract was signed, but I'm asking for one now and she's refusing. She says something along the lines that: if she gets a rent fapiao for the last 3 months, she'll be forced to pay rent tax for the rest of the year too. Is this true or is she bullshiitting?

Can I still roll up to the tax office and pay the tax myself? Contract, her ID copy and the cash is what I need? Can I get by without a copy of her ID?

Thanks.

Any ideas?

Thanks.

^^Are you sure you made it clear to her you'd pay the 5%?

Perhaps she's worried you'll move out and she'll have to pay it on her own if the next tenant doesn't want to pay...

You don't really need her to get a fapiao. Just go to the tax office and see if you can pay the 5% tax and get one without her.

By the way, anything with 6 or less floors and no elevator is "old".

[quote="KopyKatKiller"]^^Are you sure you made it clear to her you'd pay the 5%? quote]

Yea,.. Usually at the start of the contract u make an agreement that you will be paying the tax...
I think you'll need to make it very clear to the landlady that you'll be paying it,.. and she should be fine with it,.. unless if she's just plain lazy...~

What other tax would the landlord have to pay? Is it just the 5%, or would the landlord have to also declare the rent as income and pay income tax on it?

Like another poster said above, the rules have changed and you now need a copy of the landlord's ID, the property deed, etc. Just get photocopies of these documents from her and then take care of the tax yourself. We pay through the Neighborhood Committee of our apartment complex.