edbreejen wrote:I normally use similar tactics as described by Andreas. Works great and even better on rainy days, when i take out the special umbrella with stainless steel shaft (gift from a reliable Taiwanese supplier). Also works perfect in correcting the 'taxi driver turning right with red light and still thinks he has right of way'

So I'm not alone! Well done.

fWerrF wrote:

condesa wrote: Seems to be that China has 'the law of the jungle'

are you saying outside of china ppl never break traffic rules and no one ever hit and run??

PUHLEESE!!



Of course this happens OUTSIDE of China but its not the norm is it? Hell, even Turkey or Italy is humbled by Chinese drivers.

Wait, you have been outside of Shanghai haven't you?

leidelaohu wrote:I don't think the umbrella is a good idea. I'd end up hurting someone.

Heaven forbid I would injure anyone but a long scratch along the side of an offending vehicle trying to mow me down, especially the black ones, is immensely satisfying...

Andreas wrote:When I am walking on the sidewalk, and those scooters are tearing down as if there's no tomorrow, I wait till they are close enough and just suddenly raise my elbow as if I want to scratch my head. Making sure I don't touch them. Scares the crap out of them, and more than once their evasive move made them and their scooter end up on the deck. Or I suddenly turn around, swinging my briefcase just close enough. Again, without touching of course. Works the same, and it creates space. Call it 'steepening the learning curve'.

Lol that's really tickled me!!!

But yeah they're bloody death traps anyway before they get anywhere near the pavement! I agree with what somebody else said, if you're over 12 and on something with two wheels you should be on the road!!!

Of all the things to change for the Expo, this should be up there.

Humac wrote:

edbreejen wrote:I normally use similar tactics as described by Andreas. Works great and even better on rainy days, when i take out the special umbrella with stainless steel shaft (gift from a reliable Taiwanese supplier). Also works perfect in correcting the 'taxi driver turning right with red light and still thinks he has right of way'

So I'm not alone! Well done.

Same with me!

Guys get a sports whistle, got one on the key chain. Chinese are conditioned that only people in authority blow them and you will confuse them when they hear the loud blasts.

I was meeting a friend who was across the street but couldn't cross on his green walk signal for all the cars and taxis turning. I came off the curb angrily blowing the whistle and waving my hand and pointing just like the police do and they all stopped! Before they could figure out what was happening my friend (and others) crossed the street.

Another time a woman on a electric moped sped past a crossing guard who blew their whistle at her as she went down a street where no bikes are allowed. She thought she got away until she got to me and I held up my arm pointed at her while blowing my whistle in short blasts and then pointed to the ground. She stopped, got off her bike and started to push it down the street with a VERY confused look on her face. HAHA!

You got to try it!!

tihZ_hO wrote:

Humac wrote:

edbreejen wrote:I normally use similar tactics as described by Andreas. Works great and even better on rainy days, when i take out the special umbrella with stainless steel shaft (gift from a reliable Taiwanese supplier). Also works perfect in correcting the 'taxi driver turning right with red light and still thinks he has right of way'

So I'm not alone! Well done.

Same with me!

Guys get a sports whistle, got one on the key chain. Chinese are conditioned that only people in authority blow them and you will confuse them when they hear the loud blasts.

I was meeting a friend who was across the street but couldn't cross on his green walk signal for all the cars and taxis turning. I came off the curb angrily blowing the whistle and waving my hand and pointing just like the police do and they all stopped! Before they could figure out what was happening my friend (and others) crossed the street.

Another time a woman on a electric moped sped past a crossing guard who blew their whistle at her as she went down a street where no bikes are allowed. She thought she got away until she got to me and I held up my arm pointed at her while blowing my whistle in short blasts and then pointed to the ground. She stopped, got off her bike and started to push it down the street with a VERY confused look on her face. HAHA!

You got to try it!!

That's a splendid idea!

tihZ_hO wrote:She thought she got away until she got to me and I held up my arm pointed at her while blowing my whistle in short blasts and then pointed to the ground. She stopped, got off her bike and started to push it down the street with a VERY confused look on her face. HAHA!:

Later when there are thousands of foreigners blowing whistles on the street causing mayhem with the locals I can sit back and say "My work is done"

PS: Whistles are invaluable for hailing a taxi too, not just stopping them. "Sorry mate that's my taxi, he saw me first"

Humac wrote:

leidelaohu wrote:I don't think the umbrella is a good idea. I'd end up hurting someone.

Heaven forbid I would injure anyone but a long scratch along the side of an offending vehicle trying to mow me down, especially the black ones, is immensely satisfying...

Was in this position once at night . . . vehicle was against the light, me just entering the cross walk, with a closed umbrella, out of nowhere a car speeding into the turn . . . was ready to lash out with my trusty weapon, angry at the no nut who was not slowing down . . . then noticed it was a police van.

Why do I remember this incident? Cause the wanker was smiling at me while I was dodgeing out of the way with umbrella raised.

tihZ_hO wrote: PUHLEESE!!



Of course this happens OUTSIDE of China but its not the norm is it? Hell, even Turkey or Italy is humbled by Chinese drivers.

Wait, you have been outside of Shanghai haven't you?

Yes i have been outside of shanghai, i am very pretty i have been to more parts of the world than you.

in countries like usa, thats not the norm. because there is't many scooters, ppl all have a car, so that problem does not exist.
in developing countries like most of the south east asian ones, that IS the norm. because scooters is the main personal transportation tool. there are too many of them and not enough space. i have seen scooters on sideway in vietnam, indo, malay, thailand...

i am not saying its a good thing. i personally hate that too. but i just want to clarify cuz you seem to think china is the only place with that problem. if not then there is no issues.

fWerrF wrote:

tihZ_hO wrote: PUHLEESE!!



Of course this happens OUTSIDE of China but its not the norm is it? Hell, even Turkey or Italy is humbled by Chinese drivers.

Wait, you have been outside of Shanghai haven't you?

Yes i have been outside of shanghai, i am very pretty i have been to more parts of the world than you.

in countries like usa, thats not the norm. because there is't many scooters, ppl all have a car, so that problem does not exist.
in developing countries like most of the south east asian ones, that IS the norm. because scooters is the main personal transportation tool. there are too many of them and not enough space. i have seen scooters on sideway in vietnam, indo, malay, thailand...

i am not saying its a good thing. i personally hate that too. but i just want to clarify cuz you seem to think china is the only place with that problem. if not then there is no issues.

Being pretty will get you to many places!!

You definitely don't know me to say something like you wanted to say typo notwithstanding. HAHA!

Vietnam is worse than China, Indo is quite tame in comparison but Malaysia??

And Thailand! They dont ride bikes on the sidewalk, as they will hit the vendors plying their wares!

jeffinflorida wrote:haha you asked about laws in China...

There are NO LAWS in China.... never ever never...

There are laws, but you should see them more as guidelines that many people don't follow if they can get away with it.

Any time a thread pops up questioning China or some of the behaviour of its citizens it's always refreshing to see fWerrF rise to the top and defend his or her newly acquainted homeland and deny anything is wrong here or is in no way worse than any other country. Keep it up, you're on the "road to knowhere" (sung with a high voice)

Some cities do have separate lanes for bikes, scooters, etc. and the crossing guards make a valiant effort to control those who want to cross the light. Most ppl don't pay any attention - and do as they wish, knowing full well that if hit by a car/truck/bus they will be compensated.
However, morons riding on crowded sidewalks are fair game. I've clotheslined 2 (oops), pushed over many and if they go slow enough I steal the damn keys when they try and pass me. Yeah, I can be a sonovabitch at times, so sue me.

Scooters on sidewalks should slow down and be more respectful but from riding one myself I know that on many busy streets you are not allowed to drive on the street and you must drive on the sidewalk (ie. Huaihai lu, Hengshan lu, obviously Yan'An lu, Nanjing lu, Beijing lu) many times I've taken the street to avoid crowds and/or construction on the sidewalk only to have some traffic guy wave me down and send me back on the sidewalk to plow through a crowd of people... so unfortunately for pedestrians, if the street doesn't have a bike lane and it's a more or less major artery scooters will be on the sidewalk coz, well I'm not sure if it's the law, but it sure is enforced as though it is :-S

tihZ_hO wrote: Being pretty will get you to many places!!

i said i am "pretty sure", someone edited my post.

tihZ_hO wrote: You definitely don't know me to say something like you wanted to say typo notwithstanding. HAHA!

you are right, i don't know you. and it meant no disrespect, i just really don't think many ppl have been to more places than me.

tihZ_hO wrote: Vietnam is worse than China, Indo is quite tame in comparison but Malaysia??

city center KL is ok, but if u ever go out of city. or other parts like penang, kota kinabalu, its worse than shanghia.

i am not saying its a good thing. i personally hate that too. but i just want to clarify cuz you seem to think china is the only place with that problem. if not then there is no issues.

The main issue with scooters driving on the sidewalk is attitude. They drive as if it is their godgiven right to drive there and every other person (especially the pedestrian, for whom the sidewalk was designed) should get out of their way and if not, i'll blare my horn or push myself through.

As Ariannef said, on some roads scooters have no choice but taking the sidewalk and pedestrians will understand that. However, a lot depends on attitude and Chinese motorists just seem to have an utterly crappy traffic behaviour. And it's not just scooters, it's the general Shanghai motorist attitude.

Much worse than almost any other place i've been, maybe except for Manila (and that's based on experience of having been or having worked in >60 countries. India/Pakistan/Bangladesh are not included, i haven't been there).

5000 years and counting...steep learning curve isn't it?

Mirrors, on the other hand, are fair game. It's kind of entertaining how they slow down for a second when you smack the mirror really hard, then see the crazed foreigner and jump on the gas while I chase them down the street on foot. Get a little exercise that way, too.

Yep, like that one as well. Another one is for bikers (and only for good ones) and mainly for correcting the right turning taxi without right of way: If you're on the bike next to such a taxi and he wants to force you to stop, use a flat hand and bang hard on their roof. Scares the hell out of them Used to do that a lot some 6-7 years ago, but i'm getting milder (older?) these days.

I'm not convinced by what some of you say about scooters having no choice but to ride on the footpath. I'm not sure of the roads you are talking about, but don't they have a choice not to be there at all? Isn't it possible for them either to take another route, or go on foot? This thing is a curse all over the country. I guess scooter riders would rather be in a position to hurt others (pedestrians), than be hurt themselves (drivers). It seems a perfectly natural thing to do here...

Chingis wrote:I'm not convinced by what some of you say about scooters having no choice but to ride on the footpath. I'm not sure of the roads you are talking about, but don't they have a choice not to be there at all? Isn't it possible for them either to take another route, or go on foot? This thing is a curse all over the country. I guess scooter riders would rather be in a position to hurt others (pedestrians), rather than be hurt themselves (drivers). It seems a perfectly natural thing to do here...

Glad to see I am not the only one who does not get that 'no choice but to ride on the footpath'.

Andreas wrote:

Chingis wrote:I'm not convinced by what some of you say about scooters having no choice but to ride on the footpath. I'm not sure of the roads you are talking about, but don't they have a choice not to be there at all? Isn't it possible for them either to take another route, or go on foot? This thing is a curse all over the country. I guess scooter riders would rather be in a position to hurt others (pedestrians), rather than be hurt themselves (drivers). It seems a perfectly natural thing to do here...

Glad to see I am not the only one who does not get that 'no choice but to ride on the footpath'.

But?... Taking a longer route... wouldn't that be a waste of time?
Walking instead? come on...


Not too long ago there was a 5 year old kid getting killed in traffic in Shanghai. The mother was on a scooter/bicycle with the kid on the back seat, driving down a road where scooters/bicycles were not allowed. They got hit by a bus making a turn. Kid fell off the bike and died instantly.. Sad story.
But.. People were saying they knew bikes weren't supposed to drive there, but if they didn't use that route they'd have to drive around the block, so nobody did it....
Guess it's the same logic as "man of the world fwwerrrrfff" uses... "They break the rules over there, so it's ok we do it here as well".

victorinchina wrote:

Andreas wrote:

Chingis wrote:I'm not convinced by what some of you say about scooters having no choice but to ride on the footpath. I'm not sure of the roads you are talking about, but don't they have a choice not to be there at all? Isn't it possible for them either to take another route, or go on foot? This thing is a curse all over the country. I guess scooter riders would rather be in a position to hurt others (pedestrians), rather than be hurt themselves (drivers). It seems a perfectly natural thing to do here...

Glad to see I am not the only one who does not get that 'no choice but to ride on the footpath'.

But?... Taking a longer route... wouldn't that be a waste of time?
Walking instead? come on...


Not too long ago there was a 5 year old kid getting killed in traffic in Shanghai. The mother was on a scooter/bicycle with the kid on the back seat, driving down a road where scooters/bicycles were not allowed. They got hit by a bus making a turn. Kid fell off the bike and died instantly.. Sad story.
But.. People were saying they knew bikes weren't supposed to drive there, but if they didn't use that route they'd have to drive around the block, so nobody did it....
Guess it's the same logic as "man of the world fwwerrrrfff" uses... "They break the rules over there, so it's ok we do it here as well".

Yeah, you got THAT right. You basically know, if it involves a) common sense, b) logic, or c) any basic social skills, it won't happen.

Ok, lah. Ready for the next 5000. What will be left then? Potted plants?

I'm not convinced by what some of you say about scooters having no choice but to ride on the footpath. I'm not sure of the roads you are talking about, but don't they have a choice not to be there at all? Isn't it possible for them either to take another route, or go on foot? This thing is a curse all over the country. I guess scooter riders would rather be in a position to hurt others (pedestrians), than be hurt themselves (drivers). It seems a perfectly natural thing to do here...

Fully agree, apologies for my ignorance!

They have the opportunity to take another route, but refuse to do so. However, it would be nice if the local government stops with closing an increasing number of routes for bikes and scooters without offering viable alternatives (and in some areas, like parts of Jing'An, this is a big problem). Bikes and scooters are perfectly fit for urban transport (together with mass transit systems and walking), so these should be encouraged instead of private cars.

You dont know what you are talking about. In those places local elections were introduced (mostly under pressure by foreign governments, their affiliated activitists or so-called NGOs and local cults that now dominate local politics), those villages are now under administration by mafia bosses, cult leaders, etc. who are obviously more corrupt than your average party leader and even less likely to work in the best public interest.

As for the original topic:

- Sure the guy on scooter was wrong, by law and morally (not that he cared)
- In the other example where the girl on scooter broke her kneecap when a pedestrian jaywalked in front of her, she was in the wrong, by law, sorry.
- Most people have no ethics here, thanks for Buddha and Confucius, Mao tried to change that and failed. The law is mostly ok but seldom applied.

edbreejen wrote:

Mirrors, on the other hand, are fair game. It's kind of entertaining how they slow down for a second when you smack the mirror really hard, then see the crazed foreigner and jump on the gas while I chase them down the street on foot. Get a little exercise that way, too.

Yep, like that one as well. Another one is for bikers (and only for good ones) and mainly for correcting the right turning taxi without right of way: If you're on the bike next to such a taxi and he wants to force you to stop, use a flat hand and bang hard on their roof. Scares the hell out of them Used to do that a lot some 6-7 years ago, but i'm getting milder (older?) these days.

Marakanis wrote:

Cambronne wrote:You dont know what you are talking about. In those places local elections were introduced (mostly under pressure by foreign governments, their affiliated activitists or so-called NGOs and local cults that now dominate local politics), those villages are now under administration by mafia bosses, cult leaders, etc. who are obviously more corrupt than your average party leader and even less likely to work in the best public interest.

That doesn't negate what I said in the slightest... Not having the option to elect your officials is a negative in this case because the people currently in power don't even know what the working class issues are (in this case scooter routes).

What you're talking about is a group using threats and intimidation to buy an election and then using the power for their own purposes. Which really isn't all that different from what the government currently does.

So you were saying that it would be nice to live in a ideal worlds? I can't disagree with that (I can already picture all these women walking around naked).

fWerrF wrote:

tihZ_hO wrote: Being pretty will get you to many places!!

i said i am "pretty sure", someone edited my post.

Nice save... "very pretty sure"... Nice save.

Anyhow, half the blame goes to the two-wheeled Donny Dickwads flying down the sidewalks beeping their horns becasue they are convinced they are the center of the Universe.

Every Chinese person is. We could of course moderate that statement by talking about superiors in the hierarchy, family, classmates, but you get the picture. Hello Confucius.