I have trouble with these guys, as if Chinese grammar wasn't already different enough from English.

Anybody have insight? I know the meanings, but when to use them seems to change and not really have rules in my opinion.

Or is there a really good grammar book out there in shanghai I should check out...if so what store?

Thanks!

不bu4 is used before a verb to form the negative in the present or the future. 我不同意wo3bu4tong2yi4, "I don't agree"/我明天不去，后天去wo3ming2tian1bu2qu, hou4tian1qu4 "I'm not going tomorrow, I'm going the day after tomorrow".

没有mei2you3, aside from it's literal meaning of "not have" (我没有钱, "I don't have money") is also used before verbs to form the negative in the past: 我没有吃饭wo3mei2you3chi1fan4 "I haven't eaten". (Note that when making a statement or asking a question about the past you often add 了le: 你吃反了吗? "have you eaten yet?" 吃饭了 "I've eaten", but when you use 没有 you drop the 了, so you cannot say 我没有吃饭了).

别bie2 when placed before a verb means "do not": 别开玩笑了 bie2kai1wan2xiao4le "don't joke (about this)". I'm not sure how nuanced this rule it, but I've learned that you should add a 了 on the end because it softens the tone and makes it more polite.

能neng2 usually refers to the situations or inherent capabilities whereas 会hui4 is usually used to refer to skills that require practice or study to acquire. Thus 会 is used for being able to speak a language (她会说中文), drive, swim, etc. Therefore, there is actually a difference between saying 我不能开车wo3bu4neng2kai1che1 and saying 我不会开车wo3bu2hui4kai1che. Both could be translated into "I can't drive a car", but the first one means that even though you may know how to drive a car, you cannot do it for whatever reason--perhaps because you 喝醉了 (drank too much/got drunk). The second one means that you haven't learned how to drive a car.

I like Chinese Pod for learning grammar because I tend to think in a relatively associative manner and they tend to explain how the words are functioning in the sentence and then give some other examples of how they could be used. If you are more of a linear thinker and have the stomach for it you could study a grammar book, but I don't know which one to recommend. Look on Amazon and read the reviews. Keep in mind that textbooks that are available here tend to be quite a bit more "Chinese" in their instruction methods and whatnot than textbook available back home.

Also, don't trust that my grammar points or example sentences are 100% correct because they're probably not. But my advice ought to provide a decent jumping off point.

Meiyou vs Bu vs Bie. Neng vs Hui vs Keyi

u must be a teacher looking for work or this is your first week in China....

What is that arrogant **** statement supposed to mean? I work here as an expat. Learning Chinese. Should I apologize for knowing less than you? At least I've learned humility, which seems to be lost on you.

Hey Danny Boy, yeah you told me what I already learned. I speak with a lot of native speakers and they sometimes use them in places I wouldn't expect. I suppose I have no specific examples so maybe this thread is pointless...

I'll check out the chinese pod though. Can you point me in the right direction?

Thanks for the constructive help.

There is a book called 《现代汉语800词》.Usually teachers use this book to figure out the usage of words. But it's all in Chinese.

When I was Chinese teacher, I use that book. It's quite useful.

Won't do me any good then as I'm obviously lacking in Mandarin proficiency. Thanks though.

It's a perfectly acceptable question. Again, I'm always meeting students who don't know simple things like this and they've been studying for years.

DannyBoy's explanation is quite good, so I'd have to see some examples where it's not standard like this.

What I'm curious about are the Shanghainese who end their sentences with "bu" to form a question. Also, an explanation why ‘你会中国吗？“ is acceptable to say.

BeiDong wrote:What I'm curious about are the Shanghainese who end their sentences with "bu" to form a question. Also, an explanation why ‘你会中国吗？“ is acceptable to say.

Ending sentences with "不bu" or “没mei” to form questions is quite normal in Chinese.
“你去不？” and "你去吗？" basically have the same meaning (Will you go?)
So do "你去过上海没？" and "你去过上海吗？" (Have you ever been to Shanghai?)
In those sentences, "不" and "没" mean "or not". But when translated into English, "or not" is better removed.

And btw, you might have mixed up "你会中国吗?" with "你会中文吗?". Here "会" means "be able to (speak)".

I've been told that 'mei' is often used with present perfect forms in the negative. Or I could have that completely wrong... There is one negative form used consistently with present perfect. Can't remember now...

rodger.sun wrote:

BeiDong wrote:What I'm curious about are the Shanghainese who end their sentences with "bu" to form a question. Also, an explanation why ‘你会中国吗？“ is acceptable to say.

Ending sentences with "不bu" or “没mei” to form questions is quite normal in Chinese.
“你去不？” and "你去吗？" basically have the same meaning (Will you go?)
So do "你去过上海没？" and "你去过上海吗？" (Have you ever been to Shanghai?)
In those sentences, "不" and "没" mean "or not". But when translated into English, "or not" is better removed.

And btw, you might have mixed up "你会中国吗?" with "你会中文吗?". Here "会" means "be able to (speak)".

Ending sentences with 不 is almost as annoying as people who say, "真的假的!?"

No, I meant "hui" as in "go."

BeiDong wrote:Ending sentences with 不 is almost as annoying as people who say, "真的假的!?"

No, I meant "hui" as in "go."

I see. you meant "回" which means "go back (to)".
BTW, dude, you should really put more effort on listening to how we Chinese talk to each other. As I said, Ending sentences with "不" is very normal and has no special meaning. And "真的假的!?" doesn't always mean that people question what you say, they might just say that to express their surprise.