It's widely said in the US that most marriages end in divorce because of money issues. I think it is also true here in China maybe even more so. Just wondering what are the Chinese customs about money and how you/spouse deal with your own money issues.

If she works/business then does the money she earns go into helping support the couple/family (like rent/food/...) or just for her own spending? What is the Chinese custom and if applies to your family how do you deal with it?

I have many western friends married with Chinese girls.
In 90% of the couples, the money she earns goes for her own spending.

It depends on their age to a great extent. Chinese women used to be brought up expecting a man to support them, even though they expect to work. Many also want pocket money from him even in cases where she earns more than he does. It seems most also want to keep their salary, and not to use it to pay living expenses, etc.

This isn't universal. I know a few young, well-off girls who subsidize their boyfriends by paying for weekends away at resorts, restaurants, etc. But I get the impression that many look down on this thinking he's a soft rice eater, and she's selling herself to the lowest, rather than highest, bidder.

Those born in the 80s and later are a lot different from those who came before them. Universities in China are populated by a mix of rich kids and poor kids whose parents have scraped together every RMB they can beg, borrow or steal to get their kid through university. The poor guys don't have much of a chance with the girls from rich families, many of whom are very spoiled.

This Shanghai custom of expecting the guy to buy an apartment takes away a great bonding opportunity. Couples who save and sacrifice together to buy a home can feel they've really achieved something as a couple, and it can strengthen their marriage.

caso wrote:I have many western friends married with Chinese girls.
In 90% of the couples, the money she earns goes for her own spending.

What about Chinese couples (both from China) is the custom the same?

highlander wrote:

caso wrote:I have many western friends married with Chinese girls.
In 90% of the couples, the money she earns goes for her own spending.

What about Chinese couples (both from China) is the custom the same?

In Chinese couples, the woman often manage also the husband salary.

rickettyrabbit wrote:It depends on their age to a great extent. Chinese women used to be brought up expecting a man to support them, even though they expect to work. Many also want pocket money from him even in cases where she earns more than he does. It seems most also want to keep their salary, and not to use it to pay living expenses, etc.

This isn't universal. I know a few young, well-off girls who subsidize their boyfriends by paying for weekends away at resorts, restaurants, etc. But I get the impression that many look down on this thinking he's a soft rice eater, and she's selling herself to the lowest, rather than highest, bidder.

Those born in the 80s and later are a lot different from those who came before them. Universities in China are populated by a mix of rich kids and poor kids whose parents have scraped together every RMB they can beg, borrow or steal to get their kid through university. The poor guys don't have much of a chance with the girls from rich families, many of whom are very spoiled.

This Shanghai custom of expecting the guy to buy an apartment takes away a great bonding opportunity. Couples who save and sacrifice together to buy a home can feel they've really achieved something as a couple, and it can strengthen their marriage.

good one rabbit!

This Shanghai custom of expecting the guy to buy an apartment takes away a great bonding opportunity. Couples who save and sacrifice together to buy a home can feel they've really achieved something as a couple, and it can strengthen their marriage.

Yeah that why afraid of taking my wife back to the US to live. In China I can afford this "selfishness" thinking but might not in the US at least according to a comfortable living standard (keeping up with the Jones) just off my income/savings. She is not a "gold digger" (still no house) and in general get along well just differences in expectations.

Have been a saint so far but with her running her shop (which I invested in) and then with exceptions of keeping all the money she makes for herself (she does not even think need to return the original investment capital) and therefore not take care of most of the household duties. I think with these kinds of exceptions (and even worse) no wonder chinese married guys fooling around seems more common after marriage then in the US.

caso wrote:

highlander wrote:

caso wrote:I have many western friends married with Chinese girls.
In 90% of the couples, the money she earns goes for her own spending.

What about Chinese couples (both from China) is the custom the same?

In Chinese couples, the woman often manage also the husband salary.

^ Thats true, my gf also came with that nonsense. I know why, my gf said that men in china cheat like crazy (Chinese men often have a xiaosan) Take away the money and the man will not be able to keep a xiaosan.

san5324 wrote:

caso wrote:

highlander wrote:

caso wrote:I have many western friends married with Chinese girls.
In 90% of the couples, the money she earns goes for her own spending.

What about Chinese couples (both from China) is the custom the same?

In Chinese couples, the woman often manage also the husband salary.

^ Thats true, my gf also came with that nonsense. I know why, my gf said that men in china cheat like crazy (Chinese men often have a xiaosan) Take away the money and the man will not be able to keep a xiaosan.

As if the Chinese man will let the wife know how much money he has hahaha

tihZ_hO wrote:

san5324 wrote:

caso wrote:

highlander wrote:

caso wrote:I have many western friends married with Chinese girls.
In 90% of the couples, the money she earns goes for her own spending.

What about Chinese couples (both from China) is the custom the same?

In Chinese couples, the woman often manage also the husband salary.

^ Thats true, my gf also came with that nonsense. I know why, my gf said that men in china cheat like crazy (Chinese men often have a xiaosan) Take away the money and the man will not be able to keep a xiaosan.

As if the Chinese man will let the wife know how much money he has hahaha

the people with salary have to.

^^ kickbacks... hahah

An interesting article on Marriage in the US just happen to see today:

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/arc ... ca/252640/

Interesting analysis on why the number of married people declining in the middle class and poor but remaining steady or even rising among the rich. Pretty much saying that because of income of men/women becoming more equal women have less desire to marry someone in the same or lower income bracket. I always assumed it was men not wanting to get hitched up....now I guess more women also.

highlander wrote:

This Shanghai custom of expecting the guy to buy an apartment takes away a great bonding opportunity. Couples who save and sacrifice together to buy a home can feel they've really achieved something as a couple, and it can strengthen their marriage.

Yeah that why afraid of taking my wife back to the US to live. In China I can afford this "selfishness" thinking but might not in the US at least according to a comfortable living standard (keeping up with the Jones) just off my income/savings. She is not a "gold digger" (still no house) and in general get along well just differences in expectations.

Have been a saint so far but with her running her shop (which I invested in) and then with exceptions of keeping all the money she makes for herself (she does not even think need to return the original investment capital) and therefore not take care of most of the household duties. I think with these kinds of exceptions (and even worse) no wonder chinese married guys fooling around seems more common after marriage then in the US.

Chinese men cheat because of masculinity and face, not because of problems at home.

as long as i have electricity, hot water for a shower, gas in the car, satellite tv, high speed internet (by chinese standards), beer and a credit card that doesn't get declined; i don't care what she does with the money. i do however have accounts that only i can access. but i will say that i am lucky as her parents live up north so we visit them and they don't try to influence her to any extent. although her cousins husbands are pissed that i let her control the money (that she has access to). they think i don't run my house but then again i don't have to beg for coitis, oral copulation or any other related activity, and they do, nor do i need to worry with keeping a mistress and dealing with that hassle. so for me, i say let her do the bills and handle all of that. i don't know if being educated in the UK has any effect on her or not but i think it does. thoughts?

highlander wrote:

This Shanghai custom of expecting the guy to buy an apartment takes away a great bonding opportunity. Couples who save and sacrifice together to buy a home can feel they've really achieved something as a couple, and it can strengthen their marriage.

Yeah that why afraid of taking my wife back to the US to live. In China I can afford this "selfishness" thinking but might not in the US at least according to a comfortable living standard (keeping up with the Jones) just off my income/savings. She is not a "gold digger" (still no house) and in general get along well just differences in expectations.

Have been a saint so far but with her running her shop (which I invested in) and then with exceptions of keeping all the money she makes for herself (she does not even think need to return the original investment capital) and therefore not take care of most of the household duties. I think with these kinds of exceptions (and even worse) no wonder chinese married guys fooling around seems more common after marriage then in the US.

A couple things. I wonder how it's going to go when you tell her you need your initial investment back plus interest or whatever you want to tack on. Your saying your wife, is going to keep all the money she personally makes. Well shouldn't you keep the money you personally make? I would think that all the money, or a big portion of it goes into the household account. Which is shared for the household. Not for buying selfish things.

There is a reason that I will be extra picky when I marry. I don't want to have to deal with the keeping up with the Jones'. I have a good friend that has a wife and doesn't even own a purse. The two of them are solely focused on their family and not anyone else. She really doesn't care for face. And she is quite cheap and smart. Not overly cheap but enough. They do have nice things, but they don't own things that have any function other than status. Computers, have function, iPhone while is a luxury item, has special functions. etc. no LV bag, or anything like that.

I look at her and hope to find a girl like that one day. If for one second I find that a girl is out for herself, I'll bail. Which means I'll be a lonely guy for a long time. Sometimes I think it would be better to find a poor country girl to take as a wife. She wouldn't be smart enough to swindle a man, she couldn't just leave, she has no money, and she can't get a good job. She would also take care of the house because a little house cleaning is nothing compared to living in a shack on the side of a raised highway, eating beans and squatting in a stream.

Either a poor girl that needs you or a super rich girl that has everything she already wants. The middle ones, that are just on the cusp on becoming high status, haven't got an iPhone yet, no LV, but all her friends do.. those are the ones you watch out for.

Untitled wrote:

highlander wrote:

This Shanghai custom of expecting the guy to buy an apartment takes away a great bonding opportunity. Couples who save and sacrifice together to buy a home can feel they've really achieved something as a couple, and it can strengthen their marriage.

Yeah that why afraid of taking my wife back to the US to live. In China I can afford this "selfishness" thinking but might not in the US at least according to a comfortable living standard (keeping up with the Jones) just off my income/savings. She is not a "gold digger" (still no house) and in general get along well just differences in expectations.

Have been a saint so far but with her running her shop (which I invested in) and then with exceptions of keeping all the money she makes for herself (she does not even think need to return the original investment capital) and therefore not take care of most of the household duties. I think with these kinds of exceptions (and even worse) no wonder chinese married guys fooling around seems more common after marriage then in the US.

A couple things. I wonder how it's going to go when you tell her you need your initial investment back plus interest or whatever you want to tack on. Your saying your wife, is going to keep all the money she personally makes. Well shouldn't you keep the money you personally make? I would think that all the money, or a big portion of it goes into the household account. Which is shared for the household. Not for buying selfish things.

There is a reason that I will be extra picky when I marry. I don't want to have to deal with the keeping up with the Jones'. I have a good friend that has a wife and doesn't even own a purse. The two of them are solely focused on their family and not anyone else. She really doesn't care for face. And she is quite cheap and smart. Not overly cheap but enough. They do have nice things, but they don't own things that have any function other than status. Computers, have function, iPhone while is a luxury item, has special functions. etc. no LV bag, or anything like that.

I look at her and hope to find a girl like that one day. If for one second I find that a girl is out for herself, I'll bail. Which means I'll be a lonely guy for a long time. Sometimes I think it would be better to find a poor country girl to take as a wife. She wouldn't be smart enough to swindle a man, she couldn't just leave, she has no money, and she can't get a good job. She would also take care of the house because a little house cleaning is nothing compared to living in a shack on the side of a raised highway, eating beans and squatting in a stream.

Either a poor girl that needs you or a super rich girl that has everything she already wants. The middle ones, that are just on the cusp on becoming high status, haven't got an iPhone yet, no LV, but all her friends do.. those are the ones you watch out for.

Dude, no wonder you cannot "take it to the next level" with your current like-to-have-GF

It seems there's a bit of a lao wai fetish for the poor country girls, which I don't really understand, tbh, and have seen cases of people I know who would marry those poor little wretches (title justified eventually), only for them to become not only greedy and clueless, but run their household the same way as their farm - inefficiently and cynically.

For many Chinese women, especially those who've never had to actually manage money to survive and make their own living, the idea is "what's mine is mine what's yours is ours". This is the People's Republic of Children, and especially in smaller towns or villages, women never really have the opportunity to manage money beyond the most basic things. On the flipside, you also have the urban princesses who've never had to think about money as something that needs to be managed as daddy's got a tree which horks out reminbi's before you can say "Heng!" And of course, you've also got the kicker of the "rich laowai" - a very old fashioned and soon to be obsolete viewpoint, but among many family members, you're at least good for your passport and keeps Ma Dukes quiet while she fantasizes about retiring in San Francisco or Vancouver.

My wife comes from a sort of working class Shanghainese family, and to this day she's reluctant to buy anything which is not on sale. She knows how to make money, and was raised to never rely on a man's financial health as a way to get by, because you'll be out the door before your first wrinkles start showing. She can do her own nails and waits till she goes abroad to pick up good deals on brand names, and sometimes her over-frugality borders on the ridiculous. I recall one time where she saw a pair of shoes she had gotten the day before about 20 rmb cheaper in another shop - it was as if our pet goldfish died, and we almost had to fast and skip dinner to compensate.

We're okay financially because I don't play the role of her benefactor, and the financial responsibility is shared, the same way as washing dishes or laundry (oops this is Shanghai, scrap the washing dishes part). As annoying as my in-laws can be sometimes, I do commend the fact that they raised my wife with a sense of pride and independence. For too many Chinese women, the sense of achievemnt and value of paying for an apartment or car together as a couple is totally lost on them. Having said that, you can see a lot of women here who work perhaps harder than their husbands and have a very good understanding of what it means to survive and make it in a place like Shanghai.

A few years ago I was living with a girlfriend who was the total opposite. She had a very good job but the idea was that her money was hers only. I think she may have paid for dinner twice and paid the bills once, but only because I brought up the subject (on principle), which ultimatley led to us going our seperate ways. All her life, she's been told this is how the world works - in the beginning it's mommy and daddy, and later the sugar daddy or husband or both.

I do think these things are starting to change because the economic environment here is changing. My wife told me ten years ago, her entire household lived on less than 2000 per month, and nearly half of that went towards savings. Sure, it meant eating pretty much the same thing three days a week, but it was the way everyone in the neighborhood lived. Nowadays, most families have two incomes, and even to make ends meet or, god fobid, sned their child to school, they're going to have to stretch every penny and then some. The question of "heng! I want use my money buy new hello kitty ears for my iphone" becomes irrelevant because that little beast called Survival takes Hello Kitty away.

Finally, people Keep Up with the Joneses everywhere in the world. In fact, I think the Joneses are actually American and lived down the block from the Cleavers and later the Huxtables.

MeSoHorny wrote:

Untitled wrote:

highlander wrote:

This Shanghai custom of expecting the guy to buy an apartment takes away a great bonding opportunity. Couples who save and sacrifice together to buy a home can feel they've really achieved something as a couple, and it can strengthen their marriage.

Yeah that why afraid of taking my wife back to the US to live. In China I can afford this "selfishness" thinking but might not in the US at least according to a comfortable living standard (keeping up with the Jones) just off my income/savings. She is not a "gold digger" (still no house) and in general get along well just differences in expectations.

Have been a saint so far but with her running her shop (which I invested in) and then with exceptions of keeping all the money she makes for herself (she does not even think need to return the original investment capital) and therefore not take care of most of the household duties. I think with these kinds of exceptions (and even worse) no wonder chinese married guys fooling around seems more common after marriage then in the US.

A couple things. I wonder how it's going to go when you tell her you need your initial investment back plus interest or whatever you want to tack on. Your saying your wife, is going to keep all the money she personally makes. Well shouldn't you keep the money you personally make? I would think that all the money, or a big portion of it goes into the household account. Which is shared for the household. Not for buying selfish things.

There is a reason that I will be extra picky when I marry. I don't want to have to deal with the keeping up with the Jones'. I have a good friend that has a wife and doesn't even own a purse. The two of them are solely focused on their family and not anyone else. She really doesn't care for face. And she is quite cheap and smart. Not overly cheap but enough. They do have nice things, but they don't own things that have any function other than status. Computers, have function, iPhone while is a luxury item, has special functions. etc. no LV bag, or anything like that.

I look at her and hope to find a girl like that one day. If for one second I find that a girl is out for herself, I'll bail. Which means I'll be a lonely guy for a long time. Sometimes I think it would be better to find a poor country girl to take as a wife. She wouldn't be smart enough to swindle a man, she couldn't just leave, she has no money, and she can't get a good job. She would also take care of the house because a little house cleaning is nothing compared to living in a shack on the side of a raised highway, eating beans and squatting in a stream.

Either a poor girl that needs you or a super rich girl that has everything she already wants. The middle ones, that are just on the cusp on becoming high status, haven't got an iPhone yet, no LV, but all her friends do.. those are the ones you watch out for.

Dude, no wonder you cannot "take it to the next level" with your current like-to-have-GF

Would you care to elaborate? If you are referring to saying I should find a country girl, that was a thought rather than what I am actually doing.

Clue wrote:It seems there's a bit of a lao wai fetish for the poor country girls, which I don't really understand, tbh, and have seen cases of people I know who would marry those poor little wretches (title justified eventually), only for them to become not only greedy and clueless, but run their household the same way as their farm - inefficiently and cynically.

For many Chinese women, especially those who've never had to actually manage money to survive and make their own living, the idea is "what's mine is mine what's yours is ours". This is the People's Republic of Children, and especially in smaller towns or villages, women never really have the opportunity to manage money beyond the most basic things. On the flipside, you also have the urban princesses who've never had to think about money as something that needs to be managed as daddy's got a tree which horks out reminbi's before you can say "Heng!" And of course, you've also got the kicker of the "rich laowai" - a very old fashioned and soon to be obsolete viewpoint, but among many family members, you're at least good for your passport and keeps Ma Dukes quiet while she fantasizes about retiring in San Francisco or Vancouver.

My wife comes from a sort of working class Shanghainese family, and to this day she's reluctant to buy anything which is not on sale. She knows how to make money, and was raised to never rely on a man's financial health as a way to get by, because you'll be out the door before your first wrinkles start showing. She can do her own nails and waits till she goes abroad to pick up good deals on brand names, and sometimes her over-frugality borders on the ridiculous. I recall one time where she saw a pair of shoes she had gotten the day before about 20 rmb cheaper in another shop - it was as if our pet goldfish died, and we almost had to fast and skip dinner to compensate.

We're okay financially because I don't play the role of her benefactor, and the financial responsibility is shared, the same way as washing dishes or laundry (oops this is Shanghai, scrap the washing dishes part). As annoying as my in-laws can be sometimes, I do commend the fact that they raised my wife with a sense of pride and independence. For too many Chinese women, the sense of achievemnt and value of paying for an apartment or car together as a couple is totally lost on them. Having said that, you can see a lot of women here who work perhaps harder than their husbands and have a very good understanding of what it means to survive and make it in a place like Shanghai.

A few years ago I was living with a girlfriend who was the total opposite. She had a very good job but the idea was that her money was hers only. I think she may have paid for dinner twice and paid the bills once, but only because I brought up the subject (on principle), which ultimatley led to us going our seperate ways. All her life, she's been told this is how the world works - in the beginning it's mommy and daddy, and later the sugar daddy or husband or both.

I do think these things are starting to change because the economic environment here is changing. My wife told me ten years ago, her entire household lived on less than 2000 per month, and nearly half of that went towards savings. Sure, it meant eating pretty much the same thing three days a week, but it was the way everyone in the neighborhood lived. Nowadays, most families have two incomes, and even to make ends meet or, god fobid, sned their child to school, they're going to have to stretch every penny and then some. The question of "heng! I want use my money buy new hello kitty ears for my iphone" becomes irrelevant because that little beast called Survival takes Hello Kitty away.

Finally, people Keep Up with the Joneses everywhere in the world. In fact, I think the Joneses are actually American and lived down the block from the Cleavers and later the Huxtables.

Thanks for the insight.

You pretty much describe my friends wife. She has her lapses sometimes and goes off and buys some not needed item. But she is smart and level headed. She is not a normal or average Chinese women, which is why my friend married her.

Now if I could only find a similar women.

I am not really going to marry a country girl. I just used that as an example.

One Cultural Expectation that got reversed with expats males and local chinese women (vs local chinese male and local chinese women) is the expectation of with her family since your family is probably thousands of miles away. In traditional sense the women should be living with the guys family. Of course there is potential benefits of living with inlaws from help around the house/kids to financial/business assistance or if you just want to help out/be nice.

I am just pointing out if you do not want to live with wifes inlaws from what I understand you do not have to with no traditional Chinese cultural obligation to do so as I understand.

Just happened to see this....

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/18/us/yo ... llure.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/18/us/fo ... riage.html

Looks like Money/Marriage (or lack of) issues happening in the US also.

highlander wrote:Just happened to see this....

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/18/us/yo ... llure.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/18/us/fo ... riage.html

Looks like Money/Marriage (or lack of) issues happening in the US also.

You're comparing apples to fish. Yes, they both involve things that are alive, but everything else is completely different.

I have a reasonable approach to money with my girls.

I get 65% they get 35%.

if they cheat me I cut their face with my razor.

I have a reasonable approach to money with my girls.

I get 65% they get 35%.

if they cheat me I cut their face with my razor.

If they don't meet their daily quota they get beaten.

if they stray off their assigned corner they get tossed in the river...

I think jeffinflorida and caisghost should go on a date together. They would make a nice couple. They are both “extreme” in their own special way…

caisghost wrote:

highlander wrote:Just happened to see this....

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/18/us/yo ... llure.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/18/us/fo ... riage.html

Looks like Money/Marriage (or lack of) issues happening in the US also.

You're comparing apples to fish. Yes, they both involve things that are alive, but everything else is completely different.

With genetic engineering these differences become less meaningful every day.

rickettyrabbit wrote:

caisghost wrote:

highlander wrote:Just happened to see this....

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/18/us/yo ... llure.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/18/us/fo ... riage.html

Looks like Money/Marriage (or lack of) issues happening in the US also.

You're comparing apples to fish. Yes, they both involve things that are alive, but everything else is completely different.

With genetic engineering these differences become less meaningful every day.

Fair enough.

In that case, "You're comparing apples to Apple Inc. Yes, they both begin with the letter "A", but everything else is different.

Is it really that surprising? Most people don't really talk about their money management. Maybe some bragging about how much they earn or how they can afford this. Do you really know if they can afford their lifestyle or maybe they have no savings at all or even worse in debt? Most people don't even talk about how their management of money should be changed if they do get married.

Couples usually see it as spending money is romantic, but talking about money is a turn off. Then when money really does become the issue BAM! It’s like they never see it coming. BECAUSE THEY NEVER REALLY TALK ABOUT IT!!!!

Money so secret! Even in marriage! Lucky there is prenup!