Curious what you all think of the expat mag publications constantly listing off the previous establishments that newly installed chefs in town have worked at, but always omitting what they actually did at these places. Kind of irks me.

By no means a jab at any chef in particular, but I'm always curious what so-and-so did at El Bulli or Gramercy Tavern.

For instance, on SmSh, I'm reading that Jade on 36 has hired a new chef who has had "stints in Michelin-starred establishments like Maison Troisgrois and Pavillon Ledoyen." Great, but what did this person do there? Head chef, sous chef, line cook, server, host, bus, runner, or cleaning staff?

Welcome to marketing.

Firstly, don't trust the expat mags to do anything but chase advertisement revenue, trust what other expats have to say about an establishment.


Matreshka, what a mess

Every expat magazine this month prominently featured Matreshka, with positive reviews overall, so we thought we'd try it on Saturday night. How many things can a restaurant do wrong on a given night?

neverboring wrote:Curious what you all think of the expat mag publications constantly listing off the previous establishments that newly installed chefs in town have worked at, but always omitting what they actually did at these places. Kind of irks me.

By no means a jab at any chef in particular, but I'm always curious what so-and-so did at El Bulli or Gramercy Tavern.

For instance, on SmSh, I'm reading that Jade on 36 has hired a new chef who has had "stints in Michelin-starred establishments like Maison Troisgrois and Pavillon Ledoyen." Great, but what did this person do there? Head chef, sous chef, line cook, server, host, bus, runner, or cleaning staff?

Indeed. There is way too much auto-fellatio in the foodie world. Judge the place by the food not by the celebrity gossip.

I make it my business never to read the overinflated guff that passes for food journalism here.

Too much food journalism in Shanghai/China. Just like Ireland back in the boom days.

No not enough...

And too much paid "advertorial" that passes for food journalism. There have been those here who have done good work and fought the good fight. Jarret Wrisley for one. Chris St. Cavendish as well. Not sure what those guys are up to now. The may even still be around somewhere in the system. Jarret went and opened a restaurant somewhere I think.

Many of the people writing for those magazines are 20 years old and just out of college. I find difficult to take somebody with this kind of qualifications as a SERIOUS food critic.
The only thing I take from those so called 'critics' is: address, type of food, ambiance & price of a restaurant; other than that I trust my friends for recommendations.
I agree with other posters I think most of the critics here in Shanghai are all about getting cash out of it so there is always a conflict of interests.
Bottom line I don't really trust them.

condesa wrote:Many of the people writing for those magazines are 20 years old and just out of college. I find difficult to take somebody with this kind of qualifications as a SERIOUS food critic.
The only thing I take from those so called 'critics' is: address, type of food, ambiance & price of a restaurant; other than that I trust my friends for recommendations.
I agree with other posters I think most of the critics here in Shanghai are all about getting cash out of it so there is always a conflict of interests.
Bottom line I don't really trust them.

Well I wouldn't go this far. I don't suggest they are all on the take. But yeah, a lot of them are drifter expats writing stuff for free for the magazines. It's not a very professional setup. Then add in that there is a by far too cozy relationship between the editorial staff a lot of these bars and restaurants and you've got problems. And then there are the absurd "Awards" that they seem to spend a third of the year doing. There are a couple of regular columnists that can be trusted. They are obvious from their style and knowledge that comes out in the writing. But I don't think "Food Critic" is a serious job anyhow.

The problem with the rubbish food journalism/propaganda that goes on here is that everything is the newest new thing in the new part of town in the new trendy avant-garde bistro gastro eaterie, and it's all just bollocks. I wouldn't say the people responsible are on the take; they're far too callow for that. They probably just want to be seen eating in some new fancy joint and then write 300 words of drivel to show their friends just to prove the point.

The only people I've ever liked as food critics were Will Self and AA Gill, but Self hasn't done it in years, and Gill has gone of the boil, too.

Food journalism here is just the rabbit in headlights "oh look, I got my name in the magazine and now my friends know I was in El Posho Nosherie".

I'm studied journalism at a postgrad level, and most of what I've read here in the magazines, and there's no shortage of it, has been bollocks.

Brokentime wrote:The problem with the rubbish food journalism/propaganda that goes on here is that everything is the newest new thing in the new part of town in the new trendy avant-garde bistro gastro eaterie, and it's all just bollocks. I wouldn't say the people responsible are on the take; they're far too callow for that. They probably just want to be seen eating in some new fancy joint and then write 300 words of drivel to show their friends just to prove the point.

The only people I've ever liked as food critics were Will Self and AA Gill, but Self hasn't done it in years, and Gill has gone of the boil, too.

Food journalism here is just the rabbit in headlights "oh look, I got my name in the magazine and now my friends know I was in El Posho Nosherie".

I'm studied journalism at a postgrad level, and most of what I've read here in the magazines, and there's no shortage of it, has been bollocks.

Unfair. I agree with you that journalism here is rubbish but not on the reasons why. You have to admit that Shanghai is a pretty unique market. Writers are very very limited and constricted in what they can touch. All you're ever going to get here are food and drink reviews, concert announcements and other assorted lightweight ephemera. You can't write about anything serious. Even writing about art is a very dicey subject indeed and can get you sh*tcanned in a second.

Expat mags live, breathe and die on the strength of the entertainment scene. It's not even like other cities where the alt weeklies have other legs to their tripod. There's no politics, no social commentary, less art, and precious little drama to talk about. It's a one trick pony that survives off of a symbiotic relationship with the bar industry. They can't really afford to pay writers or pay for content. It's a precarious existance at the best of times. So yeah.... bad writing comes out of bad circumstances. It's no accident that the best writing here is often found online and out of reach of the ZF.

Brokentime wrote:I'm studied journalism at a postgrad level, and most of what I've read here in the magazines, and there's no shortage of it, has been bollocks.

What the blue pencil is "postgrad journalism"? How could any "master" of writing craft the above sentence? Your faculty advisor is going to beat the sh** out of you for crimes against the comma.

I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that the magazines don't pay writers. They do. The major ones, at least. No-one writes for free except interns.

It also annoys me when people tar the whole journalism scene with the same brush. There's a world of decent writing out there if you look beyond the lifestyle rags. Shanghai Business Review, China Economic Review...

Chavster wrote:

Brokentime wrote:I'm studied journalism at a postgrad level, and most of what I've read here in the magazines, and there's no shortage of it, has been bollocks.

What the blue pencil is "postgrad journalism"? How could any "master" of writing craft the above sentence? Your faculty advisor is going to beat the sh** out of you for crimes against the comma.

Stuck for time at work. Had to omit the "uate" part at the end of postgrad. Beggin' your pardon, sir.

You're right; people are stuck for stuff they can cover here, although tongues do seem to be loosening up. But I weep each time I open Time Out Shanghai etc. and see nothing but restaurant reviews. Maybe I should just stop reading it? The only reason I really look at them is to get the listings for what's on in town, but for that you have to wade through a mire of trash.

Brokentime wrote: But I weep each time I open Time Out Shanghai etc. and see nothing but restaurant reviews. Maybe I should just stop reading it? The only reason I really look at them is to get the listings for what's on in town, but for that you have to wade through a mire of trash.

Because there is f-all ever "on" in this town. Almost no good bands ever come here. (Yes I know there are a handful of very good local musicians, but that's of very limited interest.) There is hardly ever an exhibition worth talking about, and if there is, one has to watch what they say. The only thing to write about safely and consistently is food, and the occasional shop selling foofy design crap. (I say this as a big fan of foofy design crap.) The stuff in this town that's actually worth writing about, can't be.

Klick wrote:

Brokentime wrote: But I weep each time I open Time Out Shanghai etc. and see nothing but restaurant reviews. Maybe I should just stop reading it? The only reason I really look at them is to get the listings for what's on in town, but for that you have to wade through a mire of trash.

Because there is f-all ever "on" in this town. Almost no good bands ever come here. (Yes I know there are a handful of very good local musicians, but that's of very limited interest.) There is hardly ever an exhibition worth talking about, and if there is, one has to watch what they say. The only thing to write about safely and consistently is food, and the occasional shop selling foofy design crap. (I say this as a big fan of foofy design crap.) The stuff in this town that's actually worth writing about, can't be.

I used to live in Dublin, Ireland. Now that was a busy town; usually something to do every day of the week. This is just a different beast, Klick. You have to find something you like doing. Join a writers club, fornicate wildly with girls you'd never have a chance with back home, drink yourself into an early grave, take up a new sport (albeit sadly basketball kind of rules the roost here), or just watch TV shows on internet TV and hide indoors every day.

As cliched as this sounds, but things are really what you make them here.

Brokentime wrote:

Chavster wrote:

Brokentime wrote:I'm studied journalism at a postgrad level, and most of what I've read here in the magazines, and there's no shortage of it, has been bollocks.

What the blue pencil is "postgrad journalism"? How could any "master" of writing craft the above sentence? Your faculty advisor is going to beat the sh** out of you for crimes against the comma.

Stuck for time at work. Had to omit the "uate" part at the end of postgrad. Beggin' your pardon, sir.

You're right; people are stuck for stuff they can cover here, although tongues do seem to be loosening up. But I weep each time I open Time Out Shanghai etc. and see nothing but restaurant reviews. Maybe I should just stop reading it? The only reason I really look at them is to get the listings for what's on in town, but for that you have to wade through a mire of trash.

Ha. I'm just bustin your balls Broken. Based on your previous posts I figured you can take it.

Well as far as Time Out goes - Peoples got to eat right? I figure it's the best of a bad lot. You have to adapt to reading around the margins and finding your way into interesting topics.

Klick wrote:

Brokentime wrote: But I weep each time I open Time Out Shanghai etc. and see nothing but restaurant reviews. Maybe I should just stop reading it? The only reason I really look at them is to get the listings for what's on in town, but for that you have to wade through a mire of trash.

Because there is f-all ever "on" in this town. Almost no good bands ever come here. (Yes I know there are a handful of very good local musicians, but that's of very limited interest.) There is hardly ever an exhibition worth talking about, and if there is, one has to watch what they say. The only thing to write about safely and consistently is food, and the occasional shop selling foofy design crap. (I say this as a big fan of foofy design crap.) The stuff in this town that's actually worth writing about, can't be.

This fairly sums up the problem. It's pathetic how bad the nightlife scene is in a town this size. Drama is pretty much on constant life support. Every now and then a decent exhibit slips under the radar but these are short-lived. And hysterical over-reaction ruins the day at otherwise benign shows. I was at a performance of M. Butterfly a couple of years ago that got busted up by the cops. F8ck what century are we living in?

Subordinate Claws wrote:I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that the magazines don't pay writers. They do. The major ones, at least. No-one writes for free except interns.

It also annoys me when people tar the whole journalism scene with the same brush. There's a world of decent writing out there if you look beyond the lifestyle rags. Shanghai Business Review, China Economic Review...

Well - We get the idea based on the evidence before us. Man it's just a cavalcade of crap out there including the so-called business press. The lifestyle rags are kind of what we have in liu of a local English press. BTW since i've been here I've been solicited by all the the expat organs to write something at some point. None have ever seen fit to offer compensation beyond picking up a dinner cheque. So at the entry-level it all seems to be free content. I was there at the inception of one of the better blogs which shall remain un-named but let's just say it ends in ist. Three or four years later they still weren't willing to pay writers. I'm not sure the situation has changed any.

No biggie. Nobody really expects to get paid for the sort of fluff that the situation necessitates. But it does create a terrible cycle. Expat hack gets "reviewing assignment" from mag. Magazine pays dinner cheque. Review is a place that advertises heavily in said magazine so neither magazine or writer has any interest in spraying the joint with sh(t mist.

As someone overly familiar with marketing... I'll say this.
The actually good places don't need paid marketing or those fluff pieces. Actually, odds are pretty high that if there's a fluff piece, it's overpriced and overrated.

Pay attention to those wonderful group buy sites, if there's a place that's crapping out deals like no tomorrow, it's because they are desperate. The really good places will generally never have a deal, because they don't need one nor do they need to justify their prices to their patrons.

Personally speaking, I generally only rely on detailed negative reviews and ignore hyped positive ones, as there's a whole industry out there for spitting out good comments for cash.

maimai83 wrote:Pay attention to those wonderful group buy sites, if there's a place that's crapping out deals like no tomorrow, it's because they are desperate. The really good places will generally never have a deal, because they don't need one nor do they need to justify their prices to their patrons.

Definitely. Anybody who plays footsie with Groupon et al... is on a fast track to nowhere.

Chavster wrote:

maimai83 wrote:Pay attention to those wonderful group buy sites, if there's a place that's crapping out deals like no tomorrow, it's because they are desperate. The really good places will generally never have a deal, because they don't need one nor do they need to justify their prices to their patrons.

Definitely. Anybody who plays footsie with Groupon et al... is on a fast track to nowhere.

Oh those coupon things are just the worst ****! My friends girlfriend is always getting them, and it's always some shagging hot pot place in the middle of nowhere and the food is always cack

Brokentime wrote:

Chavster wrote:

maimai83 wrote:Pay attention to those wonderful group buy sites, if there's a place that's crapping out deals like no tomorrow, it's because they are desperate. The really good places will generally never have a deal, because they don't need one nor do they need to justify their prices to their patrons.

Definitely. Anybody who plays footsie with Groupon et al... is on a fast track to nowhere.

Oh those coupon things are just the worst ****! My friends girlfriend is always getting them, and it's always some shagging hot pot place in the middle of nowhere and the food is always cack

Some of them are totally worthwhile and we've scored a bunch of deals at places we'd probably go to anyways as well as finding some really decent places nearby that we didn't know about. But ya *really* gotta pay attention to what is offered, the catches included and how they are pricing in the value of everything.

Hot pot takes basically zero effort to do at home though... do it at home we'll eat our fill on 50 kuai of top grade stuff. The local place about 100, a more upscale place about 150. A deal at a decent place around 70ish including all the stuff we'd normally go for and not jacked up in original prices to 1) make it seem like a better deal than it really is and 2) score some really high add-ons when you find out you are getting no where near as much as you thought you were... and it can be worth it. If they have been crapping out 3 deals a week for the last 2 months on every damned site though..... yea, place is going under and this is their last desperate attempt to gain customers before they die.