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one take on the american justice system

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one take on the american justice system

Postby sambista » Fri Jun 24, 2011 1:44 pm

sorry for the small size. i'm away from a proper image-editing program. clicking the image makes it a tad bigger.

bottom line: mortgage banker commits $3 billion fraud, gets 40 months in prison. homeless man robs a bank of $100, turns himself in, gets 15 years in prison.

USjustice1.png
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Re: one take on the american justice system

Postby findus » Fri Jun 24, 2011 2:17 pm

sppnew wrote:Generally, we Chinese are people with sanity.
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Re: one take on the american justice system

Postby shanghaijim » Fri Jun 24, 2011 2:34 pm

The same as the guy that robbed a store of $1 so he can get mecial care ...yes, the US has a lot of problems and a lot of Sh*t that I do not like ...but still a dam better place than any other hole I have been in on this marble....including Chiner !
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Re: one take on the american justice system

Postby findus » Fri Jun 24, 2011 2:44 pm

shanghaijim wrote:The same as the guy that robbed a store of $1 so he can get mecial care ...yes, the US has a lot of problems and a lot of Sh*t that I do not like ...but still a dam better place than any other hole I have been in on this marble....including Chiner !


It's no small problem when your country continues a foreign policy of mass interference->invasion, piling trillions into these ventures, while continually bulking the pockets of the already (and mostly untouchable) rich, and can't look after its own people, most of whom increasingly feel held hostage to banks, insurance companies and such.
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Re: one take on the american justice system

Postby shanghaijim » Fri Jun 24, 2011 3:20 pm

findus wrote:
shanghaijim wrote:The same as the guy that robbed a store of $1 so he can get mecial care ...yes, the US has a lot of problems and a lot of Sh*t that I do not like ...but still a dam better place than any other hole I have been in on this marble....including Chiner !


It's no small problem when your country continues a foreign policy of mass interference->invasion, piling trillions into these ventures, while continually bulking the pockets of the already (and mostly untouchable) rich, and can't look after its own people, most of whom increasingly feel held hostage to banks, insurance companies and such.



Bascially everyone is " right and wrong " ...so what , it is what it is . nice to discuss , complain and biatch about any culture or country ...so you better pick the right " God" for your afterlife , will be a little hotter than here in Shanghai for some ...good luck !
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Re: one take on the american justice system

Postby Brun0 » Fri Jun 24, 2011 4:01 pm

findus wrote:
shanghaijim wrote:The same as the guy that robbed a store of $1 so he can get mecial care ...yes, the US has a lot of problems and a lot of Sh*t that I do not like ...but still a dam better place than any other hole I have been in on this marble....including Chiner !


It's no small problem when your country continues a foreign policy of mass interference->invasion, piling trillions into these ventures, while continually bulking the pockets of the already (and mostly untouchable) rich, and can't look after its own people, most of whom increasingly feel held hostage to banks, insurance companies and such.


Gee findanus, are we crawling back to that dark hole of ignorance called Your Life again?

Hypocritical much lately?

Your UK has done much worse in a far larger scale for much longer, and I'd even go as far as say as if you had education and health care, a lot of it came either from exploitation of other countries for a long time or you happened to have it because TWICE Uncle Sam rescued you from other countries sodomizing or about to sodomize the UK.

So, you for one should be grateful as fugg for America.

Further, ANY country would DIE to be in the position of exploiting that America has.

It's not that they exploit because they are America (assuming they do), they exploit because they can. Any country in the same situation (and your proved that before) would and did the same.

Hence, your entire point is, like your other posts, meaningless :P

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Re: one take on the american justice system

Postby sambista » Fri Jun 24, 2011 4:26 pm

wow. what a spirited dialogue!

listen, i love my country, but this sort of thing grates me. and i hope to gawd that i never become so blinded - or, worse, high and mighty - as an american that i don't see what needs to be fixed. this bitter pill i posted is particularly hard to swallow because things are really bad economically in the u.s. right now. (my brother says it's worse than anyone knows, but no one even bothers talking about it anymore, especially the media.) no one except us poor schlubs at the bottom of the heap suffered the consequences of wall street gone wild.

any political/socio-economic system, unchecked, is hazardous. one reason i believe in my president is that he believes some value can be gleaned from many approaches, many nations, including china. of course, he's now branded a socialist for that kind of thinking.

where was i? oh, never mind.
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Re: one take on the american justice system

Postby Michael » Fri Jun 24, 2011 5:02 pm

The whole prison thing is very interesting. Prisons in the US are being outsourced to private companies in some states. They get so much $$$ per inmate to maintain them. Hence, the more "criminals" doing time, the richer these guys get. And it has been hinted at the a few judges are little better off for handing out maximum sentences.
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Re: one take on the american justice system

Postby shanghaijim » Fri Jun 24, 2011 5:14 pm

Michael wrote:The whole prison thing is very interesting. Prisons in the US are being outsourced to private companies in some states. They get so much $$$ per inmate to maintain them. Hence, the more "criminals" doing time, the richer these guys get. And it has been hinted at the a few judges are little better off for handing out maximum sentences.




Room and board & 3 squares a day ....come to think of it , much like my existance here in China :lol:
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Re: one take on the american justice system

Postby findus » Fri Jun 24, 2011 5:28 pm

Brun0 wrote:
findus wrote:
shanghaijim wrote:The same as the guy that robbed a store of $1 so he can get mecial care ...yes, the US has a lot of problems and a lot of Sh*t that I do not like ...but still a dam better place than any other hole I have been in on this marble....including Chiner !


It's no small problem when your country continues a foreign policy of mass interference->invasion, piling trillions into these ventures, while continually bulking the pockets of the already (and mostly untouchable) rich, and can't look after its own people, most of whom increasingly feel held hostage to banks, insurance companies and such.


Gee findanus, are we crawling back to that dark hole of ignorance called Your Life again?

Hypocritical much lately?

Your UK has done much worse in a far larger scale for much longer, and I'd even go as far as say as if you had education and health care, a lot of it came either from exploitation of other countries for a long time or you happened to have it because TWICE Uncle Sam rescued you from other countries sodomizing or about to sodomize the UK.

So, you for one should be grateful as fugg for America.

Further, ANY country would DIE to be in the position of exploiting that America has.

It's not that they exploit because they are America (assuming they do), they exploit because they can. Any country in the same situation (and your proved that before) would and did the same.

Hence, your entire point is, like your other posts, meaningless :P

Your best fliend love you long time,
HC


It would be easy to be hypocritical if I actually had much good to say about the UK, as it is, as you well know, I don't have much good to say about the UK, hence your entire post is beyooooond meaningless. Besides, I warned you about your off-topic rants a few days ago, sweetie. Don't make me bust out some pie charts! ::kiss::
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Re: one take on the american justice system

Postby p1atl10 » Fri Jun 24, 2011 10:06 pm

OK.....Reality check.

Yes the guy who robbed the bank was poor.
And the rich guy who defrauded the system was....well, rich.

And rich guys can afford better lawyers than poor guys.

But the poor guys sentence had NOTHING to do with what I suppose is your point about the inequity and injustice of the relevant sentences.

Bank robbery is a Federal Crime, and as such is governed by sentences mandated by the United States Sentencing Commission. The judge had to follow these guidelines. no choice. The guy actually caught a break as the minimum sentence for stealing even a buck is 20 years. As he had no priors, did not use a firearm, and no one was injured, the guidelines allowed him to sentence him to 15 years.

Which he will not serve. Eligible for parole much sooner than that.

Wah-wah! the rich guy got off and the poor guy was screwed.


If the poor schmoo had committed simple robberty of a 7-11 instead of a Bank the Louisiana Criminal Code guidelines are:
"Whoever commits the crime of simple robbery shall be fined not more than three thousand dollars, imprisoned with or without hard labor for not more than seven years, or both".

The judge could have let him off with a slap on the wrists......
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Re: one take on the american justice system

Postby rickettyrabbit » Sat Jun 25, 2011 12:13 am

^ Like Bernie Madoff, who got 150 years for defrauding investors of ~ $18 billion. With time off for good behaviour, his projected release date is November 14, 2139, at which time he will be 101.

I suspect Yahweh will "release" him within 10 years or so. See - the rich are always treated better by the courts. 8)
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Re: one take on the american justice system

Postby merallison » Sat Jun 25, 2011 5:51 am

Try and make this into an internet meme or sorts and get angry internet activists to go egg the stock exchange? Well actually property damage is probably illegal there too, but at least in the States you're allowed to boisterously complain.

I'm sure you can submit this to some anti-racism or black rights group and they'll throw an angry uproar for you.
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Re: one take on the american justice system

Postby phiota » Sat Jun 25, 2011 11:04 am

Just happened to read this (comment #27), which sounds feasible of a reason of why white collar crimes gets off so easily/lightly.

http://community.nytimes.com/comments/w ... ecommended

William M. Palmer, Esq.
Boston
June 24th, 2011
6:43 pm

I was in the 1990s a federal criminal prosecutor (for part of that time with the Foreign Corrupt Practice Act and International Fraud Unit of the Fraud Section of the Criminal Division of the Department of Justice). The dearth of prosecutions of individuals involved in corporate crimes results from a combination of factors: that federal prosecutors often have come from large, elite law firms - to which they will often be returning at very high income levels (this applies to all ranks of Justice - witness AG Holder's stint at Covington - where he likely made on the order of three or more million dollars a year); that a large fine is a concrete result that can be pointed to - and which goes to the government's coffers; that big companies can hire a team of expert defense attorneys who can complexify and delay an investigation - so that by the time the individuals' culpability is clear it seems a faded event of lesser importance. What Stewart points to is a symptom of the fact that the very large sums of money coursing through politics/business/law elite tend to make individuals who hold positions of official power from pressing hard. I saw this periodically at Main Justice when I was a public corruption prosecutor. There is a very different dynamic at work when the federal government goes after an inner-city black man who robbed a bank and a corporate executive who participated in a fraud. This doesn't mean that there won't be occasional cases where high-level executives are indicted, but rather that the ecosystem- by inducement/types of personalities who stay within it/various pressures - won't give rise to/countenance a systematic and aggressive investigation and prosecution of the power elite. Add in the factor that the FBI diverted its focus from white-collar crime and other select domestic crimes to terrorism prevention after 9.11, and there simply isn't the resources, attitude and interest to do what Stewart suggests - rightfully - is missing.
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Re: one take on the american justice system

Postby rickettyrabbit » Sun Jun 26, 2011 2:41 am

^ Good find, phiota.

There's a cultural bias at work, and it's understandable (though not forgivable).

I've seen cases in which corporate execs have been vilified in the press for questionable conduct. One I'm close to involved strong suggestions of corruption in a deal involving a Canadian company in a JV with a SE Asian company. The press had a field day with it. The reputations of several corporate execs were smeared.

I had worked closely with 3 whose names were in the news several times over the course of a few weeks. I and others who'd worked with these guys spent a lot of time talking about how our actions in other situations may have looked very bad if the press had got only half of the story, as in this case. But my key point is this: I'm sure many investigators and prosecutors of white collar crime think to themselves "there but for the grace of God go I", when reviewing evidence in cases that fall in the grey area between acceptable business practice and violation of some aspects of corporate law.

Of course, this bias is minimized when someone like Bernie Madoff defrauds people who are just like themselves. Just as the black inner city guy who robs a bank is seen as a "threat" to their wealth and safety, so is a fraudster like Madoff.

To finish my story, the tide turned in favour of the execs accused in the newspaper of corruption when their lawyer called the publisher of the newspaper threatening a huge lawsuit if the paper didn't publish a long article dissecting the reputed fraud and vindicating those whose reputations had been unfairly smeared. (This lawyer is renowned for his 90+% success in similar lawsuits - when he calls, people listen.) The newspaper complied with the "request" to investigate more fully and published the story, finally saying that the execs in question had done nothing wrong or illegal. I doubt the newspaper would have done so if they'd found in their investigation that the threatening lawyer would be unlikely to win a lawsuit against the paper.

But yes, the system is biased. It's human nature. People identify with people who are like themselves, and discriminate against people who aren't, no matter how hard they may try to avoid doing so.
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